whitetiger Posted June 8, 2014 Group: Members Followers: 2 Topic Count: 1 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 67 Content Per Day: 0.02 Reputation: 16 Days Won: 0 Joined: 06/05/2014 Status: Offline Birthday: 07/27/1971 Share Posted June 8, 2014 (edited) I hold to the 66 books of the canon being the Word of God, but I do have a question. Why do you Whitetiger believe there are 72 inspired books? If you are speaking of the Apocrypha, there were 14 books in the original Apocrypha. Why do you only consider 6 of them scripture? Why not 80? I am also wondering what you mean by the Bible being "words from God?" Do you believe every jot and tittle are "words from God," or do you only believe part of the Bible is actual "words from God?" Do you believe the Bible is inerrant? He is holding the Catholic position. However, this particular opinion he expresses is not one I have heard before. There are sects within the Catholic church as you prob know, so who knows exactly what he refers to unless he enlightens us. It's pretty plain looking at my signature that I am not Catholic. Why do you assume just Catholics believe that way? There are Orthodox too which I could be said to be closer to. Here is my new testimony from another thread. I am not a Protestant, Catholic or Orthodox; I do not hold standard protestant beliefs, more accurately modern evangelical beliefs like Dispensationalism, any type of rapture that modern evangelicals believe in, I believe that Revelations is not a future book but a book that is full of symbolism of hope for the early Christians. You could call me a partial Preterist though I might deviate from that a bit. I do not believe in Sola Scriptura I believe in Scripture with Tradition, I believe in the continuing gifts of the Holy Spirit, I believe that the Church is the pillar and foundation of truth and I believe the filoque should not be in the Nicene creed, I believe in the absolute Real Presence of Christ in the Eucharist, I believe in praying to the Saints. Edited June 8, 2014 by whitetiger Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest shiloh357 Posted June 8, 2014 Share Posted June 8, 2014 The Word of God is Christ, not the Bible. The Bible are words from God The Bible is the Word of God because it is also the words of God. Jesus is the living personification of Word of God that came through Moses and the prophets. Ok lets take that Idea and run with it... John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. See now we have a problem with your concept, if the bible is the word of God, then look how ridiculous this wonderful verse becomes, substituting the word Bible for the word Word. In the beginning was the Bible, and the Bible was with God, and the Bible was God. Congadulations you have just made the bible a god, it is now an idol, a golden calf... I have problems with that.... I worship God alone I don’t worship the bible as a god That is incorrect. I am not saying that the physical Bible is a god and I don't think that one can substitute "logos" for "Bible." My position isn't like that at all. That is a value that you are assigning to my position. It is true that the word logos is in certain places, used to refer to the written Scriptures and the message of the Gospel which the apostles preached. That is inescapable. But it does not follow that we can simply replace "logos" with the word "Bible." As used in John's Gospel, Jesus is the "Word" or the personification of the wisdom and truth God that was proclaimed by the prophets. The Word of God was spoken and written down in the Law and written and spoken by the prophets. The truth and message of Christ contained in the Law and the prophets were and still are personified in Jesus. He is the living embodiment of all that was written down beforehand. I am not saying that a book is God. I am not ascribing deity to ink on a page between two leather covers. I am saying that the truth recorded on the pages of the Bible is the Word of God and that Jesus is the living, personified Word of God. The of what you posted is answered in this response as you continue along the erroneous view that I am saying that a book is a god. So to respond further, would only make me have to repeat the same response over and over. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
enoob57 Posted June 8, 2014 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 35 Topic Count: 100 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 41,153 Content Per Day: 7.98 Reputation: 21,443 Days Won: 76 Joined: 03/13/2010 Status: Offline Birthday: 07/27/1957 Share Posted June 8, 2014 The created essence of all that is with beginning has one common denominatorand that being they were formed by The Word of God and this Living Word withoutbegin and end 'IS' communicated perfectly by >imaged< written communication thatwill not pass away called Bible... that which was before is established just asthat which has not yet been is also established same! Thus God's Written Word'IS' tied forever to His Being by image (as we) and is the foundation for us tobecome that which will never pass away by becoming it's product...God has bound Himself by Written Word and unbounded in Holy Spirit! Love, Steven Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whitetiger Posted June 8, 2014 Group: Members Followers: 2 Topic Count: 1 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 67 Content Per Day: 0.02 Reputation: 16 Days Won: 0 Joined: 06/05/2014 Status: Offline Birthday: 07/27/1971 Share Posted June 8, 2014 (edited) In reality, the church didn't decide back in the 300s that there were 72 inspired books. There were 66 books everyone agreed on, and 14 that were in question. My 1611 KJV Bible contains the additional 14 books known as the Apocrypha. Since that time, the Catholic Church removed some of those 14 questionable books but kept others. That was long after the 300s. I have asked many Catholics why they removed part of the Apocrypha but still hold to part of it, and none have given me any justification for it. That is why I asked you why you don't either take my position that there are 66 books that make up the canon or 80 books that make up the canon? Why 72 books? The Episcopal Church is very close to the Catholic Church, except it is generally more liberal I have spoken to clergy in the Episcopal Church. Your church is much closer to Catholic than protestant. Since I am full gospel, the only thing you said I agree with is that I believe in the continuing gifts of the Holy Spirit. I appreciate your candor, because you did clear up a lot of what you believe, but I still don't get why you hold to 72 books as opposed to 66 verses 80, which is why I am asking you a follow up question about that one issue. Thanks in advance. I told you why I hold to the books and that is that and I am not Episcopalian, I am not associated with the ECUSA nor Anglican Church, nor is my Church. My Church is closer to Orthodox though we call it a convergence Church Edited June 8, 2014 by whitetiger Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldSchool2 Posted June 8, 2014 Group: Royal Member Followers: 7 Topic Count: 701 Topics Per Day: 0.13 Content Count: 7,511 Content Per Day: 1.35 Reputation: 1,759 Days Won: 0 Joined: 01/16/2009 Status: Offline Birthday: 02/18/1955 Share Posted June 8, 2014 In reality, the church didn't decide back in the 300s that there were 72 inspired books. There were 66 books everyone agreed on, and 14 that were in question. My 1611 KJV Bible contains the additional 14 books known as the Apocrypha. Since that time, the Catholic Church removed some of those 14 questionable books but kept others. That was long after the 300s. I have asked many Catholics why they removed part of the Apocrypha but still hold to part of it, and none have given me any justification for it. That is why I asked you why you don't either take my position that there are 66 books that make up the canon or 80 books that make up the canon? Why 72 books? The Episcopal Church is very close to the Catholic Church, except it is generally more liberal I have spoken to clergy in the Episcopal Church. Your church is much closer to Catholic than protestant. Since I am full gospel, the only thing you said I agree with is that I believe in the continuing gifts of the Holy Spirit. I appreciate your candor, because you did clear up a lot of what you believe, but I still don't get why you hold to 72 books as opposed to 66 verses 80, which is why I am asking you a follow up question about that one issue. Thanks in advance.I told you why I hold to the books and that is that and I am not Episcopalian, I am not associated with the ECUSA nor Anglican Church, nor is my Church. My Church is closer to Orthodox though we call it a convergence ChurchI should have realized that as your shield doesn't portray the Cross of St. Andrew, but with the papal keys, I would have thought charismatic Catholic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flagesapen Posted June 9, 2014 Group: Junior Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 3 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 96 Content Per Day: 0.03 Reputation: 23 Days Won: 0 Joined: 04/27/2014 Status: Offline Share Posted June 9, 2014 I first want to say I did not read all the post just the first three or so.with the topic. Yet I believe the Word of God is Jesus. I believe that the scriptures are holy spirit inspired. and are truth. And therefor also the Word of God... Reasoning... if God is the Word, and Jesus is the Word. cause he is God in the flesh. the holy spirit is also the Word of God. Jesus gave us the holy spirit. which is himself also...for in the beginning was the Word the word was God and the word was with God and everything that was made was made from the Word... The father the son and the holy spirit are all one in the same so that everything that is spoken by any of these are all the same also... this is my take on it. Many newcomers and non believers, which I was at one time, see contradictions in the scriptures. but there are none.because God is perfect,his Word is himself.and he will not lie or forsake his own name. ... Also it is said that those who follow Christ have there names written in the book of life... Which leaves me to think. The Word (God)made the Word(Christ)and sent the Word(the spirit) who testifies of the Word(all three) and it was written. That we might have life through him. I don't know if that makes sense to y'all. Makes sense to me... blessings Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whitetiger Posted June 9, 2014 Group: Members Followers: 2 Topic Count: 1 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 67 Content Per Day: 0.02 Reputation: 16 Days Won: 0 Joined: 06/05/2014 Status: Offline Birthday: 07/27/1971 Share Posted June 9, 2014 Whitetiger, you said that you believed there should be 72 books in the Bible because it was decided by the church in the 300s, and that was not the case. I don't know of anyone that held to 72 books in the 300s. The controversy was between 66 books and 80 books. Who held to 72 books in the 300s? Are you claiming your denomination existed back that far and they alone held to 72 books being scripture? That's what I am trying to figure out. You say you are not Episcopal, but the name of the church you are promoting is Charasmatic Episcopal. You may not be part of the largest group of Episcopal churches, but your church calls themselves Episcopal. There are numerous groups of Baptist and Methodist Churches like Freewill Baptist and Bible Methodist, and if I call those groups Baptist or Methodist, they are by their title Baptist or Methodist, even though they may not be the most common type of Baptist or Methodist. Your church is an Episcopal Church. No it's not, we use an Episcopalian government. We are a convergence Church or three streams. Liturgical, Charismatic, Evangelical. We are a very pro life conservative body Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ayin jade Posted June 10, 2014 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 44 Topic Count: 6,178 Topics Per Day: 0.88 Content Count: 43,795 Content Per Day: 6.21 Reputation: 11,243 Days Won: 58 Joined: 01/03/2005 Status: Offline Share Posted June 10, 2014 I will say it one last time. I do not believe as protestants that the Bible is the Word of God, Christ is. period. Now I am unsubscribing And yet .... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ayin jade Posted June 10, 2014 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 44 Topic Count: 6,178 Topics Per Day: 0.88 Content Count: 43,795 Content Per Day: 6.21 Reputation: 11,243 Days Won: 58 Joined: 01/03/2005 Status: Offline Share Posted June 10, 2014 Whitetiger, you said that you believed there should be 72 books in the Bible because it was decided by the church in the 300s, and that was not the case. I don't know of anyone that held to 72 books in the 300s. The controversy was between 66 books and 80 books. Who held to 72 books in the 300s? Are you claiming your denomination existed back that far and they alone held to 72 books being scripture? That's what I am trying to figure out. You say you are not Episcopal, but the name of the church you are promoting is Charasmatic Episcopal. You may not be part of the largest group of Episcopal churches, but your church calls themselves Episcopal. There are numerous groups of Baptist and Methodist Churches like Freewill Baptist and Bible Methodist, and if I call those groups Baptist or Methodist, they are by their title Baptist or Methodist, even though they may not be the most common type of Baptist or Methodist. Your church is an Episcopal Church. No it's not, we use an Episcopalian government. We are a convergence Church or three streams. Liturgical, Charismatic, Evangelical. We are a very pro life conservative body 3 days later ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whitetiger Posted June 10, 2014 Group: Members Followers: 2 Topic Count: 1 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 67 Content Per Day: 0.02 Reputation: 16 Days Won: 0 Joined: 06/05/2014 Status: Offline Birthday: 07/27/1971 Share Posted June 10, 2014 (edited) 3 days later what? What's your problem lady? Edited June 10, 2014 by whitetiger Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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