At what point do we do it by ourselves?

[Enoc]

Vision is important for walking with GOD. As your relationship becomes more intimate GOD will reveal more of himself, but only after he reveals to you who you are. If you don't see what GOD is doing around you, then it's best to wait, until he allows you to see what he is doing at which time he is inviting you to work with him. Anything done without seeing is done in the dark and motivated by the flesh which is limited an absent of grace and anointing.

 

John 5:19-20New International Version (NIV)

19 Jesus gave them this answer: “Very truly I tell you, the Son can do nothing by himself; he can do only what he sees his Father doing, because whatever the Father does the Son also does. 20 For the Father loves the Son and shows him all he does. Yes, and he will show him even greater works than these, so that you will be amazed.

[Edwin]

OakWood. You ask, "At what point do we do it by ourselves?"

 

If you are referring to leading a life well pleasing to the Lord, then the answer is, by yourself you cannot. 

 

However, the Holy Spirit who dwells within you can. But you must allow Him to do so, which is why Jesus said what He did in the following verses.

 

Jhn 15:5 I am the vine; you are the branches. Whoever abides in me and I in him, he it is that bears much fruit, for apart from me you can do nothing

 

Jhn 5:19 So Jesus said to them, “Truly, truly, I say to you, the Son can do nothing of his own accord, but only what he sees the Father doing. For whatever the Father does, that the Son does likewise.

 

Jhn 5:30 "I can do nothing on my own. As I hear, I judge, and my judgment is just, because I seek not my own will but the will of him who sent me. 

 

Jhn 14:10 Do you not believe that I am in the Father and the Father is in me? The words that I say to you I do not speak on my own authority, but the Father who dwells in me does his works. 

 

May the Lord bless you.

 

Edwin.

Edited July 30, 2014 by Edwin

[dscapp]

"At what point do we do it by ourselves?"

 

When computers stop working.
 

[CurtisCWilson]

Did Jesus ever claim to anything on his own? Did he ever take things into his own hands and just do them? Jesus said....

 

John 5:30  I can of mine own self do nothing: as I hear, I judge: and my judgment is just; because I seek not mine own will, but the will of the Father which hath sent me. 

 

Where does that put us? If Jesus said he could do nothing on his own, What makes us think we can do anything on our own?

 

Sorry, I posted this before knowing "Edwin" already said the same thing.

 

The only thing we as Christians are suppose to do is this....

 

Joh 6:27  Labour not for the meat which perisheth, but for that meat which endureth unto everlasting life, which the Son of man shall give unto you: for him hath God the Father sealed. 

Joh 6:28  Then said they unto him, What shall we do, that we might work the works of God? 

Joh 6:29  Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent. 

 

The only work we are suppose to do is "believe the Word of God"

 

Edited August 2, 2014 by CurtisCWilson

[Guest]

Did Jesus ever claim to anything on his own?

 

Did he ever take things into his own hands and just do them?

 

The only work we are suppose to do is "believe the Word of God"

 

 

Abide In Him

 

Now ye are clean through the word which I have spoken unto you. Abide in me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, except it abide in the vine; no more can ye, except ye abide in me. John 15:3-4

 

~

 

And Yeap

 

Therefore doth my Father love me, because I lay down my life, that I might take it again. No man taketh it from me, but I lay it down of myself. I have power to lay it down, and I have power to take it again. This commandment have I received of my Father. John 10:17-18

 

Jesus Is God

 

The Father loveth the Son, and hath given all things into his hand. John 3:35

 

The Son Of God

 

And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.

 

I have glorified thee on the earth: I have finished the work which thou gavest me to do.

 

And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was. John 17:3-5

[OakWood]

 

Did Jesus ever claim to anything on his own? Did he ever take things into his own hands and just do them? Jesus said....

 

John 5:30  I can of mine own self do nothing: as I hear, I judge: and my judgment is just; because I seek not mine own will, but the will of the Father which hath sent me. 

 

Where does that put us? If Jesus said he could do nothing on his own, What makes us think we can do anything on our own?

 

Sorry, I posted this before knowing "Edwin" already said the same thing.

 

The only thing we as Christians are suppose to do is this....

 

Joh 6:27  Labour not for the meat which perisheth, but for that meat which endureth unto everlasting life, which the Son of man shall give unto you: for him hath God the Father sealed. 

Joh 6:28  Then said they unto him, What shall we do, that we might work the works of God? 

Joh 6:29  Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent. 

 

The only work we are suppose to do is "believe the Word of God"

 

 

 

You've misunderstood the meaning of my post or are you claiming that we have no free will?

[Guest]

....are you claiming that we have no free will....

 

 

The World's Will

 

And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,

 

And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.

 

And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them. Revelation 20:7-9

 

And His Will

 

The LORD hath appeared of old unto me, saying, Yea, I have loved thee with an everlasting love: therefore with lovingkindness have I drawn thee.

 

Again I will build thee, and thou shalt be built, O virgin of Israel: thou shalt again be adorned with thy tabrets, and shalt go forth in the dances of them that make merry. Jeremiah 31:3-4

 

And

 

Then I looked, and behold, a white cloud, and seated on the cloud one like a son of man, with a golden crown on his head, and a sharp sickle in his hand. And another angel came out of the temple, calling with a loud voice to him who sat on the cloud, “Put in your sickle, and reap, for the hour to reap has come, for the harvest of the earth is fully ripe.” So he who sat on the cloud swung his sickle across the earth, and the earth was reaped.

 

Then another angel came out of the temple in heaven, and he too had a sharp sickle. And another angel came out from the altar, the angel who has authority over the fire, and he called with a loud voice to the one who had the sharp sickle, “Put in your sickle and gather the clusters from the vine of the earth, for its grapes are ripe.” So the angel swung his sickle across the earth and gathered the grape harvest of the earth and threw it into the great winepress of the wrath of God. Revelation 14:14-19 (ESV)

 

My Will

 

And thou shalt love the LORD thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy might.

 

And these words, which I command thee this day, shall be in thine heart: Deuteronomy 6:5-6

 

Because Of Him

 

We love him, because he first loved us. 1 John 4:19

 

As I See It

 

~

 

And the God of peace shall bruise Satan under your feet shortly. The grace of our Lord Jesus Christ be with you. Amen. Romans 16:20

 

BATTLE HYMN OF THE REPUBLIC

 

Mine eyes have seen the glory of the coming of the Lord;

He is trampling out the vintage where the grapes of wrath are stored;

He hath loosed the fateful lightning of His terrible swift sword;

His truth is marching on.

Glory! Glory! Hallelujah! Glory! Glory! Hallelujah!

Glory! Glory! Hallelujah! His truth is marching on.

 

I have seen Him in the watch fires of a hundred circling camps

They have builded Him an altar in the evening dews and damps;

I can read His righteous sentence by the dim and flaring lamps;

His day is marching on.

Glory! Glory! Hallelujah! Glory! Glory! Hallelujah!

Glory! Glory! Hallelujah! His day is marching on.

 

I have read a fiery Gospel writ in burnished rows of steel;

“As ye deal with My contemners, so with you My grace shall deal”;

Let the Hero, born of woman, crush the serpent with His heel,

Since God is marching on.

Glory! Glory! Hallelujah! Glory! Glory! Hallelujah!

Glory! Glory! Hallelujah! Since God is marching on.

 

He has sounded forth the trumpet that shall never call retreat;

He is sifting out the hearts of men before His judgment seat;

Oh, be swift, my soul, to answer Him! be jubilant, my feet;

Our God is marching on.

Glory! Glory! Hallelujah! Glory! Glory! Hallelujah!

Glory! Glory! Hallelujah! Our God is marching on.

 

In the beauty of the lilies Christ was born across the sea,

With a glory in His bosom that transfigures you and me:

As He died to make men holy, let us live to make men free;

[originally …let us die to make men free]

While God is marching on.

Glory! Glory! Hallelujah! Glory! Glory! Hallelujah!

Glory! Glory! Hallelujah! While God is marching on.

 

He is coming like the glory of the morning on the wave,

He is wisdom to the mighty, He is honor to the brave;

So the world shall be His footstool, and the soul of wrong His slave,

Our God is marching on.

Glory! Glory! Hallelujah! Glory! Glory! Hallelujah!

Glory! Glory! Hallelujah! Our God is marching on.

 

http://www.cyberhymnal.org/htm/b/h/bhymnotr.htm

[Guest Geoff Primanti]

Rpj34652, where in the bible does it say God hates sinners?

I don't know if he answered it, but I would say Psalm 5:5-6 and 7:11.  And the Psalmist also expresses his own hatred for the sinner in Psalm 139:19-24.

 

I have a slightly different perspective form Rpj, and that is that God does indeed hate sin and will cast it into the lake of fire along with any and all who will not be separated from it within themselves through faith in the blood of Jesus.  1 John 1:7.

 

All I'm saying is that sin is the cause of suffering and will not be allowed in heaven because otherwise there would be suffering in heaven, and the Bible (specifically Revelation 21:4) tells us that suffering will have passed away when we enter therein (though tears and crying will not immediately pass away since of course every last one of us will mourn over loved ones who did not make it.  And if you think that all of your loved ones will make it, then Romans 5:5 has not happened to you to the extent that it should be, as defined in Matthew 5:44-48.  Since this love is an impartation of love through the Holy Ghost, those who continue to fall short have no excuse.  "Be perfect as your heavenly Father is perfect," is in direct context of loving your enemies and Jesus is saying here that God requires a perfect love of us.  And to say that I have obtained the gift of God while avoiding the wages of sin if I am still doing the things that would earn those wages, is to not take into account verse 22 of the passage in question.  Which tells us that being made free from sin and becoming servants to God so that we bear fruit unto holiness, the end of these things is eternal life. I conclude that holiness and the perfect love spoken of is the gift of God because eternal life being also the gift of God is the result of these things; and of course there is no one living except God Himself who is capable of being perfectly holy and loving on their own power; so if God grants us these things we will have them indeed and in no other way.  And whom the Son sets free is also free indeed.) 

Edited August 11, 2014 by Geoff Primanti

[Marilyn C]

Willamina, I liked what you said about waiting for the timing & direction of the Lord. I would also like to add that I appreciate Oakwood`s thought on this.

 

My concerns are that so much teaching today is - that God has a plan for you - like be the latest .... be the greatest....have the latest...... whereas all God has said is that He will make us like Christ & the rest is all serving & the tools we need for that.

 

Imagine if Stephen of old went to the latest conference & heard that God had this great plan for his life....then he goes & preaches this great sermon & then oooops stones & rocks & ......great plan? yes, to be like Christ. 

Edited August 11, 2014 by Marilyn C

[Guest Geoff Primanti]

 

 

Rpj34652, where in the bible does it say God hates sinners?

I don't know if he answered it, but I would say Psalm 5:5-6 and 7:11.  And the Psalmist also expresses his own hatred for the sinner in Psalm 139:19-24.

 

I have a slightly different perspective form Rpj, and that is that God does indeed hate sin and will cast it into the lake of fire along with any and all who will not be separated from it within themselves through faith in the blood of Jesus.  1 John 1:7.

 

All I'm saying is that sin is the cause of suffering and will not be allowed in heaven because otherwise there would be suffering in heaven, and the Bible (specifically Revelation 21:4) tells us that suffering will have passed away when we enter therein (though tears and crying will not immediately pass away since of course every last one of us will mourn over loved ones who did not make it.  And if you think that all of your loved ones will make it, then Romans 5:5 has not happened to you to the extent that it should be, as defined in Matthew 5:44-48.  Since this love is an impartation of love through the Holy Ghost, those who continue to fall short have no excuse.  "Be perfect as your heavenly Father is perfect," is in direct context of loving your enemies and Jesus is saying here that God requires a perfect love of us.  And to say that I have obtained the gift of God while avoiding the wages of sin if I am still doing the things that would earn those wages, is to not take into account verse 22 of the passage in question.  Which tells us that being made free from sin and becoming servants to God so that we bear fruit unto holiness, the end of these things is eternal life. I conclude that holiness and the perfect love spoken of is the gift of God because eternal life being also the gift of God is the result of these things; and of course there is no one living except God Himself who is capable of being perfectly holy and loving on their own power; so if God grants us these things we will have them indeed and in no other way.  And whom the Son sets free is also free indeed.)

Greetings Geoff, and welcome to the forum. I am in agreement with what you have said. I believe in holiness unto the Lord, and if you take a look at some of my posts on this website it will be evident. I was recently in a once saved always saved debate in another thread and so its refreshing to hear your words. I like a fresh perspective. The post you quoted me on was more on the thought about for God so loved the world. I believe even for the sinner there is hope, as you quoted psalms 7:11, well 7:12 starts out if he turn not, and this word turn in hebrew is equivelant to the word repent in the new testament. That was kinda my thought on that thread. But I do agree very much in sin will not be tolorated in His presence. I am always praying for God to cleanse me. What I guess I am really trying to say is, I dont believe God hates people, or sinners, but He does hate thier sin. If God hates sinners I would have been destroyed long long ago.

 

 

It could be described as a love-hate relationship:  He loves the person but hates their actions and if in the final end they reject His free gift of salvation to the extent that they won't be cleansed/delivered from the actions that He hates (while He still loves them since He can't deny Himself and He is love); in His righteousness He also hates them enough to find satisfaction in their everlasting destruction.  As in the equation y=1/x.  when x=1 y=1/1.  When x=2 y=1/2.  When x=4 y=1/4.  When x=8 y=1/8.  When graphed it is a descending curve where the rate of destruction decreases as you get lower and the effect is that y never reaches zero.  When x=1,000,000 y=1/1,000,000.  When x=1,000,001 y=1/1,000,001.  It is both justice and mercy.  And He can't deny Himself in that He is justice also.

 

And of course He knows the end from the beginning also; and therefore He endures with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction (and even we as human beings tend to hate those things that tend to make us suffer long although as a born again believer I tend to love people who cause suffering over extended periods of time and yet even in my born again state there comes a point where I just say I've had it, and I have even prayed for their eternal damnation though I normally repent later and ask God to only give them a temporal justice that fits their crimes against me.  Because as blessed as I am through the fulfillment of Matthew 5:10-12 in my own life, the truth is that persecution is painful and there is something in me that wants God to take vengeance on them in my behalf and this is why such verses as Romans 12:19 comfort me when I think of all the s***/dung that people have thrown against me over the years.  I think that I really do hate those people with perfect hatred, just like the woman on TV tonight said that she was thankful to God for forensic science and that she would be more than happy to cast the first stone at a murderer/rapist without feeling guilty about the fact that she is not without sin in her own life.  When it comes to murderers, rapists, liars,and deceivers I think that God's heart is that He does indeed hate them for what they do to His beloved children with their actions and with all He has done to even redeem their completely depraved (to the point of wickedness in the evil sense of that word) souls from sin I believe He is perfectly just to feel a holy hatred toward them as people if they persist to the very end with their unrepentance so that He ceases to strive with them because men immediately die the very moment a final decision is made against Him which is the definition that I give to the term blasphemy of the Holy Ghost although it is not the only valid definition of the unpardonable sin.