Where is the Body of Christ in the Millennium?

[Daniel 11:36]

Response to the OP:

 

[Joel 2:1-11; Zechariah 14:4-5; Jude 1:14-15; Revelation 19:14; 20:4] [those on thrones .... symbol of the Lord's government]

Edited October 19, 2014 by Daniel 11:36

[Retrobyter]

Shalom, “Daniel 11:36"

 

Response to the OP:

 

[Joel 2:1-11; Zechariah 14:4-5; Jude 1:14-15; Revelation 19:14; 20:4] [those on thrones .... symbol of the Lord's government]

 

Not just symbols, my friend; they're LITERAL thrones!

[Daniel 11:36]

I would say no .... not literal

 

Why would any immortal waste their time just sitting around on a literal throne for eternity

 

The symbolism of the Lord's "throne" implies authority and governance  by those that will rule with Him

 

.... there will be many things to do in the heavenly state of existence .... much more than just sitting on a throne ... boring

 

Do you actually think that the Lord sits on a literal throne and never moves from it? 

Edited October 19, 2014 by Daniel 11:36

[Marilyn C]

Hi Retrobyter,

 

Thanks for your reply. Now I will just answer a bit at a time.

 

1. I agree  as you said, that `sin & death will still be prevalent during the Millennium; death is the last enemy to be conquered.` And that`s a good agreement actually. However we know that Jesus is not the same physically as He was on the earth. He now has a glorified body & has been exalted `far above,` all authority & power. Thus to just `walk` around the earth & people are still sick & dying is not consistent with His authority & power. Christ ruling through the natural nation of Israel, as promised, is consistent with the earth & people still under `sin & death.` 

 

I also agree that the parables of Matt. 13 are for the future kingdom. However it was promised to the nation of Israel & Jesus was reminding them of this. It is not written to the Body of Christ which was a `mystery` to people, till the Holy Spirit revealed it to the Apostle Paul, as we know.

 

In reference to Cor. 15: 20 - 28 we see the order of both groups.

 

1. Christ, the First Fruits. (v.23)

2. Those at His coming. (the Body of Christ) (v. 23)

 

Then cometh the end - a setting out for a conclusion - (24)

 

3. Christ reigning until He has put all enemies under His feet. (25) (details in the setting out ....tribulation & Millennium)

4.the kingdom delivered up to God. (Israel) (24)

5. death destroyed. (v. 26)

6. God, all in all. (v. 28)

Edited October 19, 2014 by Marilyn C

[Marilyn C]

Hi Retrobyter,
 
I will cut to the main point now.
 
You said  `"Mashiach" also means an "Anointed" one. The word does NOT mean that Yeshua` is God or God the Son! To the contrary, it means that He is the Son of God, destined to be the King...`

 

It seems to me you are saying that Jesus is not God. This is against Worthy`s Statement of Faith which you agreed to when you became a member. Or agreed not to teach against this. 

[Retrobyter]

Shalom, Daniel 11:36.

 

I would say no .... not literal

 

Why would any immortal waste their time just sitting around on a literal throne for eternity

 

The symbolism of the Lord's "throne" implies authority and governance  by those that will rule with Him

 

.... there will be many things to do in the heavenly state of existence .... much more than just sitting on a throne ... boring

 

Do you actually think that the Lord sits on a literal throne and never moves from it? 

 

Does a real, modern king sit on a literal throne and never move from it? That’s nonsense. He sits on his throne when the time is right for him to sit on his throne! There are many other activities and responsibilities for a king to perform. Just because YOU think it is boring doesn’t mean that it is! To the contrary, it is a RUSH to those who have the privilege and the responsibility to judge between people and national affairs!

 

It is HARDLY “wasting one’s time!” Are you meshuggah (crazy)?! It’s an awesome privilege to work for one’s king! Even if it’s just being a door keeper in the House of the LORD!

[Daniel 11:36]

Your comments make little sense to me .... there will be no literal thrones for immortals

 

.... even the Lord's  throne is a symbol of His eternal power and goverance over His creation

Edited October 20, 2014 by Daniel 11:36

[ARGOSY]

Hi Argosy,

 

I think the accent I mean is a bit like a Canadian with a touch of Dutch. (!!!!)

 

1/2 Can you give scriptures to back your claim of `wider application.`

 

3. `But they shall serve the Lord their God & David their king,....` (Jer. 30: 9) Clearly David is a person & not the Lord.

 

4. `...successful training exercise...` How do you mean it is `successful`?

 

5. `...confidently waiting for God to sort out the situation...` But don`t you believe that Jesus is there being surrounded? That is very strange to me.

 

1.  Well its obviously not only the tribulation beheaded that partake of the first resurrection.  Rev 20:6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

 

Even though the Rev 20 description appears to limit it to the beheaded, we know from other verses (eg Daniel 12:1-2) that all are resurrected at the beginning of the millenium. Also the description above of them being priests and reigning is similar to descriptions that apply to all the saints, not just the tribulation beheaded. This is why I believe those saints are not confined to the tribulation beheaded.

 

3. In the Old testament , the Father was regarded as Lord and God. This could easily be a description of the Father , and the coming Messiah.

 

4. My point is that the millenium is training us saints to rule. Satan deceiving the nations need not be seen as a failure, because we learn how to rule. Nothing in the descriptions of the coming Messianic Age hints that the saints teach the population how to resist Satan. We know that the nations will fail, but in the meantime we rule and judge over them.

 

5. Once again you are using a descriptive word to make your point. I see nothing "strange" or "ridiculous" about the deceived nations surrounding Jesus and the saints in Jerusalem and  those nations being destroyed. Believe me Jesus and the saints are literally indestructible, but there is simply no need for us to fight that battle. Prophesy says God will destroy them all. So its not like we are "hiding out". We merely wait for completion, without even a concern for our safety, and with no reason to join in the battle ourselves.  In our eyes we have already won that battle without even lifting a finger.

[Retrobyter]

Shalom, Marilyn C.

 

Hi Retrobyter,

 

Thanks for your reply. Now I will just answer a bit at a time.

 

1. I agree  as you said, that `sin & death will still be prevalent during the Millennium; death is the last enemy to be conquered.` And that`s a good agreement actually. However we know that Jesus is not the same physically as He was on the earth. He now has a glorified body & has been exalted `far above,` all authority & power. Thus to just `walk` around the earth & people are still sick & dying is not consistent with His authority & power. Christ ruling through the natural nation of Israel, as promised, is consistent with the earth & people still under `sin & death.` 

 

I also agree that the parables of Matt. 13 are for the future kingdom. However it was promised to the nation of Israel & Jesus was reminding them of this. It is not written to the Body of Christ which was a `mystery` to people, till the Holy Spirit revealed it to the Apostle Paul, as we know.

 

In reference to Cor. 15: 20 - 28 we see the order of both groups.

 

1. Christ, the First Fruits. (v.23)

2. Those at His coming. (the Body of Christ) (v. 23)

 

Then cometh the end - a setting out for a conclusion - (24)

 

3. Christ reigning until He has put all enemies under His feet. (25) (details in the setting out ....tribulation & Millennium)

4.the kingdom delivered up to God. (Israel) (24)

5. death destroyed. (v. 26)

6. God, all in all. (v. 28)

 

You said specifically, “...we know that Jesus is not the same physically as He was on the earth. He now has a glorified body & has been exalted `far above,` all authority & power. Thus to just `walk` around the earth & people are still sick & dying is not consistent with His authority & power.” I would HOPE that you realize that this is NONSENSE! His glorified body is STILL a physical body of “flesh and bones!"

 

Luke 24:36-43

36 And as they thus spake, Jesus himself stood in the midst of them, and saith unto them, Peace be unto you.

37 But they were terrified and affrighted, and supposed that they had seen a spirit.

38 And he said unto them, Why are ye troubled? and why do thoughts arise in your hearts?

39 Behold my hands and my feet, that it is I myself: handle me, and see; for a spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye see me have.

40 And when he had thus spoken, he shewed them his hands and his feet.

41 And while they yet believed not for joy, and wondered, he said unto them, Have ye here any meat?

42 And they gave him a piece of a broiled fish, and of an honeycomb.

43 And he took it, and did eat before them.

KJV

 

So, you see? Yeshua`s body was not ethereal or non-corporeal; it was a LITERAL, FLESH-AND-BONE BODY! Those who are heavy into theology will come up with all sorts of thoughts about Yeshua` that are INCONSISTENT with His attitude, His prophecies, and His demeanor!

 

For instance, why do you think, Yeshua` would “just `walk` around the earth & people are still sick & dying is not consistent with His authority & power”? It is EXACTLY consistent with His authority and power! He wants them to find their healing and wellness IN GOD THROUGH HIM! He’s not going to FORCE health on those who are not willing to seek Him out!

 

Okay, let’s do a little reasoning now: You said, “...the parables of Matt. 13 are for the future kingdom. However it was promised to the nation of Israel & Jesus was reminding them of this.” We also read, ...

 

Revelation 5:8-10

8 And when he had taken the book, the four beasts and four and twenty elders fell down before the Lamb, having every one of them harps, and golden vials full of odours, which are the prayers of saints.

9 And they sung a new song, saying, Thou art worthy to take the book, and to open the seals thereof: for thou wast slain, and hast redeemed us to God by thy blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation;

10 And hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on the earth.

KJV

 

Revelation 11:15

15 And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever.

KJV

 

Revelation 20:6

6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

KJV

 

Revelation 22:1-5

1 And he shewed me a pure river of water of life, clear as crystal, proceeding out of the throne of God and of the Lamb.

2 In the midst of the street of it, and on either side of the river, was there the tree of life, which bare twelve manner of fruits, and yielded her fruit every month: and the leaves of the tree were for the healing of the nations.

3 And there shall be no more curse: but the throne of God and of the Lamb shall be in it; and his servants shall serve him:

4 And they shall see his face; and his name shall be in their foreheads.

5 And there shall be no night there; and they need no candle, neither light of the sun; for the Lord God giveth them light: and they shall reign for ever and ever.

KJV

 

If the Kingdom of heaven (the Kingdom from the sky) is about the future kingdom promised to nation of Israel, and we are reigning on the earth, over just whom do you think we are reigning? We are NOT different than the nation Israel! To the contrary, we have the “middle wall of partition broken down" that was between us! We are supposed to be worshipping God TOGETHER as ONE PEOPLE!

 

Psalm 133:1-3

1 Behold, how good and how pleasant it is for brethren to dwell together in unity!

2 It is like the precious ointment upon the head, that ran down upon the beard, even Aaron's beard: that went down to the skirts of his garments;

3 As the dew of Hermon, and as the dew that descended upon the mountains of Zion: for there the Lord commanded the blessing, even life for evermore.

KJV

 

Ephesians 2:12-22

12 That at that time ye were without Christ (without a Messiah), being aliens from the commonwealth (citizenship) of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world:

13 But now in Christ Jesus (the Messiah Yeshua`) ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ (the Messiah).

14 For he is our peace, who hath made both one, and hath broken down the middle wall of partition between us;

15 Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace;

16 And that he might reconcile both unto God in one body by the cross, having slain the enmity thereby:

17 And came and preached peace to you which were afar off (the Gentile Ephesians), and to them that were nigh (the children of Israel).

18 For through him we both have access by one Spirit unto the Father.

19 Now therefore ye are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellowcitizens with the saints, and of the household of God;

20 And are built upon the foundation of the apostles (the sent-ones) and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone (the capstone);

21 In whom all the building fitly framed together groweth unto an holy temple in the Lord:

22 In whom ye also are builded together for an habitation of God through the Spirit.

KJV

 

Romans 11:11-32

11 Again I ask: Did they stumble so as to fall beyond recovery? Not at all! Rather, because of their transgression, salvation has come to the Gentiles to make Israel envious. 12 But if their transgression means riches for the world, and their loss means riches for the Gentiles, how much greater riches will their fullness bring! 

 

13 I am talking to you Gentiles. Inasmuch as I am the apostle to the Gentiles, I make much of my ministry 14 in the hope that I may somehow arouse my own people to envy and save some of them. 15 For if their rejection is the reconciliation of the world, what will their acceptance be but life from the dead? 16 If the part of the dough offered as firstfruits is holy, then the whole batch is holy; if the root is holy, so are the branches. 

 

17 If some of the branches have been broken off, and you, though a wild olive shoot, have been grafted in among the others and now share in the nourishing sap from the olive root, 18 do not boast over those branches. If you do, consider this: You do not support the root, but the root supports you. 19 You will say then, "Branches were broken off so that I could be grafted in." 20 Granted. But they were broken off because of unbelief, and you stand by faith. Do not be arrogant, but be afraid. 21 For if God did not spare the natural branches, he will not spare you either. 

 

22 Consider therefore the kindness and sternness of God: sternness to those who fell, but kindness to you, provided that you continue in his kindness. Otherwise, you also will be cut off. 23 And if they do not persist in unbelief, they will be grafted in, for God is able to graft them in again. 24 After all, if you were cut out of an olive tree that is wild by nature, and contrary to nature were grafted into a cultivated olive tree, how much more readily will these, the natural branches, be grafted into their own olive tree! 

 

25 I do not want you to be ignorant of this mystery, brothers, so that you may not be conceited: Israel has experienced a hardening in part until the full number of the Gentiles has come in. 26 And so all Israel will be saved, as it is written:

 

"The deliverer will come from Zion;

he will turn godlessness away from Jacob. 

27 And this is my covenant with them

when I take away their sins." 

 

28 As far as the gospel is concerned, they are enemies on your account; but as far as election is concerned, they are loved on account of the patriarchs, 29 for God's gifts and his call are irrevocable. 30 Just as you who were at one time disobedient to God have now received mercy as a result of their disobedience, 31 so they too have now become disobedient in order that they too may now receive mercy as a result of God's mercy to you. 

NIV

 

The quoted part comes from the TANAKH (the "Old Testament”):

 

Isaiah 59:20-21

20 "The Redeemer will come to Zion,

to those in Jacob who repent of their sins,"

 declares the LORD. 

 

21 "As for me, this is my covenant with them," says the LORD. "My Spirit, who is on you, and my words that I have put in your mouth will not depart from your mouth, or from the mouths of your children, or from the mouths of their descendants from this time on and forever," says the LORD. 

NIV

 

Jeremiah 31:33-34

33 "This is the covenant I will make with the house of Israel

after that time," declares the LORD.

"I will put my law in their minds

and write it on their hearts.

I will be their God,

and they will be my people. 

34 No longer will a man teach his neighbor,

or a man his brother, saying, 'Know the LORD,'

because they will all know me,

from the least of them to the greatest,"

 declares the LORD.

"For I will forgive their wickedness

and will remember their sins no more." 

NIV

 

We are NOT to be treated differently! It’s no longer the “Jews and the Gentiles”; We are ONE IN THE SAME FAMILY! We are His MISHPACHAH (Hebrew for “FAMILY”)!

[Retrobyter]

Shalom, Daniel 11:36.

 

Your comments make little sense to me .... there will be no literal thrones for immortals

 

.... even the Lord's  throne is a symbol of His eternal power and goverance over His creation

 

Well, your word choice makes little sense to me. What do you think you mean by “immortals?"