What are your views on giving? What does the Bible say?

[GoldenEagle]

 

 

No, I didn't miss your point. How can you say that "most" preachers are out for money? This is absurd. Yes, I agree that some are, and maybe even most on tv are. I have been to several churches in my lifetime and have found that most do not even talk about money hardly at all if any. Even though the Bible talks more about money than about anything, including salvation.

 

How is it absurd?  Just do a google search.  Or look at the vatican.  People use God to make money.

 

I dont go to church anymore.  I find it soulless and contrary to my faith anyways.  So to each their own.  Also Goldeneagle provided some scripture as a counter argument to your tithing thing.  

 

I'm starting a new thread here in order not to derail this one about this comment in bold.

 

 

[Macs Son]

No, I didn't miss your point. How can you say that "most" preachers are out for money? This is absurd. Yes, I agree that some are, and maybe even most on tv are. I have been to several churches in my lifetime and have found that most do not even talk about money hardly at all if any. Even though the Bible talks more about money than about anything, including salvation.

Hi Gigman,

I agree with you brother. We never ask for money or a tithe but our own church provides more than 22% to missions outside the church and a tithe would only be 10%. The member usually vote to raise this every single year and we have great joy in being able to do so. Finances are then a reflection of your heart. Where your treasure is there your heart will be also. So, if we treasure the Lord, then we will treasure the work of the Lord and finance it as we can. I've personally never been caught short in practicing this and I can't explain why but certainly there must be an individual desire to bless the Lord just as he has bless us. Now a church's finances should reflect a love of God and for ministry the same as an individual so quite frankly a tithe is a fairly minimal number since we are not steeped in legalism but a love for the Lord's work among us. This is something as members that we should look for - so not just an individual's heart should be blessed to give but also collectively we should seek that our church and its membership is striving to do the same our of love for Christ.

In Christ, Pat

[GoldenEagle]

 

 

I know we are go give our tithes, give to the poor, the widows and orphans, and to give freely, but what exactly does the scripture say?

 

I would tend to agree with Littlelambseativy. Tithing was a command given to Israel in the OT. Feel free to look these passages up in context but here are some thoughts...

 

Numbers 18:21-24  shows that the tithe was given by the Lord to the Levite tribe of Israel. It was a tax if you will for the nation of Israel to support the Temple (precursor was the tent) and the workers of the Temple.

In Lev. 27:30-32  the Jews were told to give a tithe to the Lord according to Levitical law.

In Deut. 14:22-23 the tithe was given as instruction to Israel (Jews) based on what the land yielded (their earnings). Particularly the wine, grain, oil, and flocks.

In 2 Chron. 31:5-6  the people of Israel gave in abundance of the first fruits of grain, wine, oil, honey, the produce of the field, and their flocks.

The OT Law required multiple tithes 1) one for the Levites paid yearly, 2) another one for the use of the temple and the feasts paid yearly, and 3) one for the poor of the land to be paid every 3 years (as well as orphans, widows, and foreigners see Deut. 14:28-29).

 

This would result on average to a 23.3 percent tithe of seed and flocks from one’s annual produce from the land.

So if we wanted to follow OT tithing as Believers we would need to follow this set of rules and it would only apply to land owners. Do you see brother?

Or perhaps I'd ask for clarification as to what you mean when you say "I know we are to give our tithes..."?

God bless,

GE

 

Gigman7 I noticed you started a new thread. Have you had a chance to review and study this?

 

The reason I ask is there is more to share particularly about giving to the poor, widows and orphans, and giving freely. However, curious if you are wanting to discuss this topic further.

God bless,

GE

[GoldenEagle]

 

I know we are go give our tithes, give to the poor, the widows and orphans, and to give freely, but what exactly does the scripture say?

 

 

I have presented Biblical evidence that tithing was a command and tax given to Israel to support the Levites & Temple, festivals, and in helping the poor/widows/orphans/foreigners.

So tithing is for Israel? But what about the Church? But giving to the poor is certainly a command for the Believer still today. Feel free to look up these passages in context.

Wisdom in the Proverbs point to giving and giving generously.

Proverbs 3:27

Do not withhold good from those to whom it is due, when it is in your power to do it.

Proverbs 22:9

He who is generous will be blessed, for he gives some of his food to the poor.

Also in the NT Jesus told us to give in secret. We are also to help those who need clothing or food.

 

Matthew 6:3-4

But when you give to the poor, do not let your left hand know what your right hand is doing, so that your giving will be in secret; and your Father who sees what is done in secret will reward you.

Luke 3:11

And he would answer and say to them, “The man who has two tunics is to share with him who has none; and he who has food is to do likewise.”

Regarding lending money to people... Instead just give as you are able and led by the Holy Spirit.

 

Luke 6:30

Give to everyone who asks of you, and whoever takes away what is yours, do not demand it back.

 

Jesus said it was better to give than to receive.

Acts 20:35

In all things I have shown you that by working hard in this way we must help the weak and remember the words of the Lord Jesus, how he himself said, ‘It is more blessed to give than to receive.’”

Each person must give as they have purposed in their heart. As Believers we are to be led by the Holy Spirit so hopefully what is in our hearts is a result of cheerful Spirit-led giving.

2 Cor. 9:7

Each one must give as he has decided in his heart, not reluctantly or under compulsion, for God loves a cheerful giver.

Does this make sense?

God bless,

GE

[gigman7]

 

 

 

 

 

 

To be fair the verses used to support tithing were aimed at Israel and the priests who did not work for money but for God and relied on these tithes from the other tribes.  The verse now is used to support a building, sort of like a club membership, and the owner usually spends it on vehicles and the like.  It's evil, scripture twisting and has nothing to do with the will of God.  If you want to use your money for good then give directly to the poor, the homeless, feed the hungry and give water to the thirsty.

This is SO wrong in so many ways.

 

prove it

 

The church needs money to function. The preacher needs at least a good living wage. There are ministries to support. Do you think the church can exist if all of its members only give their money to the poor?  

 

You completely missed my post.

Most preachers are out for money though, which makes this argument moot.  Some preachers are even atheists.

 

And the point being is the verses people use for instance for 10% are misused and twisted.

 

No, I didn't miss your point. How can you say that "most" preachers are out for money? This is absurd. Yes, I agree that some are, and maybe even most on tv are. I have been to several churches in my lifetime and have found that most do not even talk about money hardly at all if any. Even though the Bible talks more about money than about anything, including salvation.

 

How is it absurd?  Just do a google search.  Or look at the vatican.  People use God to make money.

 

Because you said that most are out for money. That is absurd.

[Willa]

Various denominations have different structures and means of support. Many are independant churches that have no support outside of its congregation.

The latter is my own. While it bears the name and basic beliefs of the original church, it receives no support from them. The pastor maintained a full time job until the church grew to 300-400 members and he could not do both. The church supports fund raisers for their Christian school, the local pro life pregnancy center, and various missions that people from our church visit and help to support. These are over and above our weekly giving. The church solicits no funds for itself, its building and land purchases or its building projects; it must make payments on the buildings and on the camp that we purchased since they involve many millions of dollars. Our building seats about 1000 and doubles as a gymnasium for the school. There are no pledges and no formal membershiip. Our pastors depend on God to supply their needs and to make enough money available to pay their personal bills. They never tell others of their needs. Occasionally his wife had to find a job as a waitress so they could have money for Christmas gifts. They own an older pick up and a newer car that is safer for travel.

The 4 pastors are not wealthy but live in pretty average homes. Our senior pastor has 5 acres and livestock. His rural older farm house is probably below the standards of a lot of people.

It is true that pastors of main line denominations may not be saved. The pastor of the prior church we attended had led the president of his seminary to receive Christ; he was widely known and a respected theologian. A large portion of this church was engineers and their average income was about 30% above state average. They made sure that their pastor had a new house and an income commesurate to their own. People there had to vow to tithe to become members; but the church also tithed to missions. In addition they had special fund raisers to raise support for specific missions projects and often gave 70,000 out of their abundance..

In the church before that, the people were not wealthy and it also received no support from the denomination.. But the pastor's heart was not right about finances and he put people under obligation to tithing in such a way that it became bondage. Once they took 4 offerings for a visiting speaker because it was not enough to cover the expenses of their luxeory hotel suite and fees he required. Normally a member would have opened his home for visiting speakers to stay.

Three different denominations. All were independant in finances...The latter two also paid dues of some kind to support the denominational government. Many churches are completely independant with no denomination at all, and many are small with less than 150 people attending, forcing the pastor to work full time at another job. Most have a family to support. Paul worked as a tent maker. Acts 18:3

When James, Peter and John gave Paul and Barnabus the commision to go to the gentiles, they requested that they remember the poor. This usually meant to support the church in Jeruselem since the members had given up their wealth and property in a communal lifestyle and had become poverty stricken with no resources during draught. Gal. 2:10 We cannot do otherwise but to give to the poor if the compassion of Christ dwells in us.

2 Cor. 8:3-5 Speaks of giving ourselves wholly to God, and then to the will of God, as being the foundation of cheerful giving. The Macedonians begged to give in spite of their deep poverty.

[GoldenEagle]

gigman7 still waiting on your thoughts about tithing.

 

God bless,

GE

[JoMomma]

Jesus told all of His Disciples, not just the rich young ruler, to sell what they had and give the proceeds to the poor. John said that anyone who believes on Jesus was to walk as Jesus walked. Jesus had no place of His own to live in or to "rest His head." John said anyone who believes on Jesus would do greater works than Jesus.

Edited August 20, 2014 by JoMomma

[other one]

Jesus told all of His Disciples, not just the rich young ruler, to sell what they had and give the proceeds to the poor. John said that anyone who believes on Jesus was to walk as Jesus walked. Jesus had no place of His own to live in or to "rest His head." John said anyone who believes on Jesus would do greater works than Jesus.

he also said that he had food that the disciples were not aware of, and if he needs money he goes fishing....

 

i haven't developed those skills yet.  Neither has my family so I am obliged to take care of them along with doing Gods work.  We simply don't live in an environment to give everything away and still eat and stay out of the cold and rain.

[Guest]

 

I know we are go give our tithes, give to the poor, the widows and orphans, and to give freely, but what exactly does the scripture say?

 

This topic comes up from time to time, and I am not unfamiliar with it. If you want to go fairly deeply into the topic, and see not only what the Bible says, what where it says it, I suggest visiting a website where I have tried to lay all of that out in detail:

 

http://www.omegazine.com Clicking the link will work better that just going to the site in general, as the link will take you directly to what you seek, avoiding all sorts of tedious navigation of the amateurish site (sorry, but I am not an expert at webmastering).

 

If you follow that link, it will take you to a place on the page where the meat begins, or you can scroll up for a part which is more about a testimony and experience that I had, leading to the things I have learned about the topic.

 

I need to warn you, it is a fairly lengthy document.

 

The main points developed are:

 

• The law said you SHALL PAY tithes
• In the New Covenant we SHOULD GIVE generously
• As we give, it is to be as we have decided in our heart, it is not compelled, and it is an expression of our love of God and man.
• The giving should support local ministry, missionary work, and also help those in need.
• Because we are indwelt with God's Holy Spirit, our ability to overcome selfishness is in place, the only thing holding us back, is us.

However, the document goes into to these more deeply as well as others, as well as a detailed (from the pages of scripture) history of tithing.

 

If I had to make the briefest of summaries on my personal view, I would say "Technically, in the Bible, tithing is never specified for Christians. However, generous giving is indicated."