Endtime Layout

[iamlamad]

 

 

 

Therefore I have NO DOUBT that the entire 70th week is still ahead of us. I have a GREAT advantage, for God Himself instructed me in this exact area. If God believes it is, that is good enough for me.

 

LAMAD

 

 

For the purpose of bible discussions its better to show your evidence from the bible. Even Jesus used this scriptural approach. So I don't find your last point compelling whatsoever, despite being sure that in other areas God would communicate with you directly.

 

Paul used his own personal testimony, even before kings. I certainly will not deny what really happened.

God spoke to me about this very subject and left no doubt that in HIS mind, the entire 70th week is still future, being "clearly marked" in the book of Revelation.

LAMAD

[rjp34652]

This is based on the events and times given in the Book of Daniel, and in our Lord Jesus' Olivet Discourse, and His Revelation, and portions of the OT Books of God's prophets. The * marker is to show what events occur on the day of Christ's coming known as "the day of the Lord". The (p.) stands for a 'period' of time.

 

 

[---------------------------------------Dan.9:27 "one week"-------------------------------------]

[---p.1---------][----p.2----------][--- p.3---------][----------------------p.4----------------------][*]

[--220 days--][--1040 days---][-AOD setup-][-was 1260 days, now "five months"-][*]

 

p.1 & p.2 = 1260 days of the first half of Daniel's symbolic "one week" (one seven). The period of a 'week' per the 70 weeks prophecy equals a 7 year period per the historical event timing of the previously fulfilled 69 weeks. The final 70th yet unfulfilled week is this "one week" of Dan.9:27.

 

p.1 = prep time for the daily sacrifices and building of the new temple in Jerusalem.

 

p.2 = the time of the re-instituted daily sacrifice and temple worship; the time of those who worship in the temple in Rev.11:1.

 

p.3 is the midst of the "one week" (7 years) when the Antichrist ends the daily sacrifice and substitutes with the placing of the "abomination of desolation" in the temple, demanding all to bow in worship.

 

p. 4 is the "great tribulation" timing, the 42 month reign of the "dragon" of Rev.13, the 42 months the Gentiles are given to tread the holy city per Rev.11:2. It's the timing of the locust working with the pseudo-Christ setup in Jerusalem as king of the world, i.e., the 6th trumpet - 2nd woe timing. Christ shortened this 1260 days to "five months" per the time of the stinging by the locusts of Rev.9 and His declaration in Matt.24:21-26. The locusts are told to not hurt any green thing, and cannot kill anyone not sealed with God's sealing. It is the time of God's two witnesses prophesying in Jerusalem for 1260 days before they are killed by the beast that ascends up from the bottomless pit.

 

(*) - "the day of the Lord" = day of Christ's second coming to gather His Church. Day of the battle of Armageddon and Gog/Magog, His coming destroying the Antichrist's armies that will attempt to come upon Israel on that last day of this world. It is the time of God's consuming fire per 2 Pet.3:10 and the OT prophets, burning man's works off the surface of the earth like how the flood of Noah's day destroyed man's works then. It is the day when those still alive on earth, including Christ's Church, will be changed at the "twinkling of an eye" to the "spiritual body" of 1 Cor.15 on the "last trump". It is the time of the 7th trumpet - 3rd final woe. It is the time of the 6th seal with Christ's enemies seeking to hide themselves, wishing for the hills and mountains to fall on them (shame). It is the time when those of Christ's Church did not wait on Him will appear in shame loosing their "garments". It is the time when Jesus will shut the door on the five foolish virgins. It is the first day of Christ's "thousand years" reign of Rev.20.

 

Does that help anyone?

 

History has a way of making fools of those who attempt to predict it.    

 

Everyone like to think of themselves as a prophet, twisting and turning the pages of Holy Writ to their liking.   I especially refer to the fantasy quoted above.  A lot of it is based upon the works of John Nelson Darby, a spiritual opportunist of the mid-19th century and a consort of witches if you follow his trail.   A person of no less standing than John Scofield of the famous Bible translation was taken in by Mr. Darby's delusions and included much of Darby's doctrines in his chain reference Bible.   But a chain reference does not a gospel make, neither does the ramblings of a spiritualist pass as apostolic revelation.

 

Nevertheless, the story remains very popular and only the revealing of the ACTUAL days of the end times will serve to abolish for good and all the quagmire of Darby's lies that have trapped many an innocent Christian.

 

So go ahead and refuse the council of wisdom and dutiful independent study, choosing instead the way of the lazy man who depends upon the regurgitated interpretations of the dogs of spiritualism.  That way lies error and you will not learn the truth until it hits you between the eyes.    And then you'll wonder if God and the Bible were all wrong, when indeed it was you all the time.

 

and that's just me, hollering from the choir loft... 

[iamlamad]

 

This is based on the events and times given in the Book of Daniel, and in our Lord Jesus' Olivet Discourse, and His Revelation, and portions of the OT Books of God's prophets. The * marker is to show what events occur on the day of Christ's coming known as "the day of the Lord". The (p.) stands for a 'period' of time.

 

 

[---------------------------------------Dan.9:27 "one week"-------------------------------------]

[---p.1---------][----p.2----------][--- p.3---------][----------------------p.4----------------------][*]

[--220 days--][--1040 days---][-AOD setup-][-was 1260 days, now "five months"-][*]

 

p.1 & p.2 = 1260 days of the first half of Daniel's symbolic "one week" (one seven). The period of a 'week' per the 70 weeks prophecy equals a 7 year period per the historical event timing of the previously fulfilled 69 weeks. The final 70th yet unfulfilled week is this "one week" of Dan.9:27.

 

p.1 = prep time for the daily sacrifices and building of the new temple in Jerusalem.

 

p.2 = the time of the re-instituted daily sacrifice and temple worship; the time of those who worship in the temple in Rev.11:1.

 

p.3 is the midst of the "one week" (7 years) when the Antichrist ends the daily sacrifice and substitutes with the placing of the "abomination of desolation" in the temple, demanding all to bow in worship.

 

p. 4 is the "great tribulation" timing, the 42 month reign of the "dragon" of Rev.13, the 42 months the Gentiles are given to tread the holy city per Rev.11:2. It's the timing of the locust working with the pseudo-Christ setup in Jerusalem as king of the world, i.e., the 6th trumpet - 2nd woe timing. Christ shortened this 1260 days to "five months" per the time of the stinging by the locusts of Rev.9 and His declaration in Matt.24:21-26. The locusts are told to not hurt any green thing, and cannot kill anyone not sealed with God's sealing. It is the time of God's two witnesses prophesying in Jerusalem for 1260 days before they are killed by the beast that ascends up from the bottomless pit.

 

(*) - "the day of the Lord" = day of Christ's second coming to gather His Church. Day of the battle of Armageddon and Gog/Magog, His coming destroying the Antichrist's armies that will attempt to come upon Israel on that last day of this world. It is the time of God's consuming fire per 2 Pet.3:10 and the OT prophets, burning man's works off the surface of the earth like how the flood of Noah's day destroyed man's works then. It is the day when those still alive on earth, including Christ's Church, will be changed at the "twinkling of an eye" to the "spiritual body" of 1 Cor.15 on the "last trump". It is the time of the 7th trumpet - 3rd final woe. It is the time of the 6th seal with Christ's enemies seeking to hide themselves, wishing for the hills and mountains to fall on them (shame). It is the time when those of Christ's Church did not wait on Him will appear in shame loosing their "garments". It is the time when Jesus will shut the door on the five foolish virgins. It is the first day of Christ's "thousand years" reign of Rev.20.

 

Does that help anyone?

 

History has a way of making fools of those who attempt to predict it.    

 

Everyone like to think of themselves as a prophet, twisting and turning the pages of Holy Writ to their liking.   I especially refer to the fantasy quoted above.  A lot of it is based upon the works of John Nelson Darby, a spiritual opportunist of the mid-19th century and a consort of witches if you follow his trail.   A person of no less standing than John Scofield of the famous Bible translation was taken in by Mr. Darby's delusions and included much of Darby's doctrines in his chain reference Bible.   But a chain reference does not a gospel make, neither does the ramblings of a spiritualist pass as apostolic revelation.

 

Nevertheless, the story remains very popular and only the revealing of the ACTUAL days of the end times will serve to abolish for good and all the quagmire of Darby's lies that have trapped many an innocent Christian.

 

So go ahead and refuse the council of wisdom and dutiful independent study, choosing instead the way of the lazy man who depends upon the regurgitated interpretations of the dogs of spiritualism.  That way lies error and you will not learn the truth until it hits you between the eyes.    And then you'll wonder if God and the Bible were all wrong, when indeed it was you all the time.

 

and that's just me, hollering from the choir loft... 

 

Go ahead and holler....you can be wrong if you choose to be....and apparently you have so chosen.

 

Anyone who does any serious study of the bible knows that God dealt with man differently in the days before the law was given and the days AFTER the Law was given. Anyone who does even a little study in God's word knows that God dealt differently with those under the law and those who are in Christ. Call it what you want, but these are different DISPENSATIONS.

 

In fact, the 32 years or so that Christ was on earth was a dispensation of Immanuel.

 

You can deny it until the cows come home, but the 70th week of Daniel is scripture and denying it is denying scripture. If you imagine it is history now, you will be wrong there too. It is a future time, but not far into our future.

 

Finally, do you really know much about spiritualism?

 

LAMAD

[Salty]

 

This is based on the events and times given in the Book of Daniel, and in our Lord Jesus' Olivet Discourse, and His Revelation, and portions of the OT Books of God's prophets. The * marker is to show what events occur on the day of Christ's coming known as "the day of the Lord". The (p.) stands for a 'period' of time.

 

 

[---------------------------------------Dan.9:27 "one week"-------------------------------------]

[---p.1---------][----p.2----------][--- p.3---------][----------------------p.4----------------------][*]

[--220 days--][--1040 days---][-AOD setup-][-was 1260 days, now "five months"-][*]

 

p.1 & p.2 = 1260 days of the first half of Daniel's symbolic "one week" (one seven). The period of a 'week' per the 70 weeks prophecy equals a 7 year period per the historical event timing of the previously fulfilled 69 weeks. The final 70th yet unfulfilled week is this "one week" of Dan.9:27.

 

p.1 = prep time for the daily sacrifices and building of the new temple in Jerusalem.

 

p.2 = the time of the re-instituted daily sacrifice and temple worship; the time of those who worship in the temple in Rev.11:1.

 

p.3 is the midst of the "one week" (7 years) when the Antichrist ends the daily sacrifice and substitutes with the placing of the "abomination of desolation" in the temple, demanding all to bow in worship.

 

p. 4 is the "great tribulation" timing, the 42 month reign of the "dragon" of Rev.13, the 42 months the Gentiles are given to tread the holy city per Rev.11:2. It's the timing of the locust working with the pseudo-Christ setup in Jerusalem as king of the world, i.e., the 6th trumpet - 2nd woe timing. Christ shortened this 1260 days to "five months" per the time of the stinging by the locusts of Rev.9 and His declaration in Matt.24:21-26. The locusts are told to not hurt any green thing, and cannot kill anyone not sealed with God's sealing. It is the time of God's two witnesses prophesying in Jerusalem for 1260 days before they are killed by the beast that ascends up from the bottomless pit.

 

(*) - "the day of the Lord" = day of Christ's second coming to gather His Church. Day of the battle of Armageddon and Gog/Magog, His coming destroying the Antichrist's armies that will attempt to come upon Israel on that last day of this world. It is the time of God's consuming fire per 2 Pet.3:10 and the OT prophets, burning man's works off the surface of the earth like how the flood of Noah's day destroyed man's works then. It is the day when those still alive on earth, including Christ's Church, will be changed at the "twinkling of an eye" to the "spiritual body" of 1 Cor.15 on the "last trump". It is the time of the 7th trumpet - 3rd final woe. It is the time of the 6th seal with Christ's enemies seeking to hide themselves, wishing for the hills and mountains to fall on them (shame). It is the time when those of Christ's Church did not wait on Him will appear in shame loosing their "garments". It is the time when Jesus will shut the door on the five foolish virgins. It is the first day of Christ's "thousand years" reign of Rev.20.

 

Does that help anyone?

 

History has a way of making fools of those who attempt to predict it.    

 

Everyone like to think of themselves as a prophet, twisting and turning the pages of Holy Writ to their liking.   I especially refer to the fantasy quoted above.  A lot of it is based upon the works of John Nelson Darby, a spiritual opportunist of the mid-19th century and a consort of witches if you follow his trail.   A person of no less standing than John Scofield of the famous Bible translation was taken in by Mr. Darby's delusions and included much of Darby's doctrines in his chain reference Bible.   But a chain reference does not a gospel make, neither does the ramblings of a spiritualist pass as apostolic revelation.

 

Nevertheless, the story remains very popular and only the revealing of the ACTUAL days of the end times will serve to abolish for good and all the quagmire of Darby's lies that have trapped many an innocent Christian.

 

So go ahead and refuse the council of wisdom and dutiful independent study, choosing instead the way of the lazy man who depends upon the regurgitated interpretations of the dogs of spiritualism.  That way lies error and you will not learn the truth until it hits you between the eyes.    And then you'll wonder if God and the Bible were all wrong, when indeed it was you all the time.

 

and that's just me, hollering from the choir loft... 

 

 

Well, you're just hollering from the choir LEFT, if you want to know.

 

Those times are directly from God's Holy Writ, not John Darby.

 

And the fact you are not aware of them from Scripture means you've been listening to something else instead of God's Holy Writ.

[Salty]

 

 

  I will agree that John did not write that the two witnesses begin 3 1/2 days before the midpoint. But we can determine this by what John did write.

 

 

Please consider:

 

From the exact midpoint to the 7th vial that ends the week  will be 1260 days.

The city will be trampled 42 months, as shown in verses 1 & 2. This tells me the man of sin arrives in Jerusalem at this time. He MUST be in Jerusalem to enter the temple in Jerusalem, right? He comes with armies that will trample the city for 42 months. From this 42 months we know that verses 1 & 2 are VERY CLOSE to the midpoint. Maybe not to the exact day, but close enough to write 42 months. So perhaps a couple of days off from 1260? Would 3 1/2 days off be close enough to write 42 months?

 

If you understand that the "man of sin" arrives in Jerusalem at the same time as those Gentiles treading the city for 42 months, and that's also when the two witnesses will begin prophesying for 1260 days, then why haven't you understood that is the "middle" of the "one week" when all that begins?

 

I do understand that. Chapters 11 and 12 are MIDPOINT chapters. It is close to the middle (the 7th trumpet) but in reality it is 3 1/2 days BEFORE the middle when the two witnesses show up. This is shown by the very same earthquake when they rise as seen at the 7th vial, 1260 days after the exact midpoint. You still don't believe that the 7th trumpet MARKS the exact midpoint - but indeed it does.

 

Rev.9 from the start of the 6th trumpet - 2nd woe to the ending of it in Rev.11 is the midpoint AND... tribulation of 3.5 years. The tribulation ENDS with the beginning of the 7th trumpet - 3rd woe period. So NO.. the 7th Trumpet does NOT... mark the "middle" of Daniel's "one week". It instead marks the END of the 70th week with Christ's return.

 

 

The 3 trumpet-woe periods flow in chronological order, we can trust that order because our Lord Jesus attached those 3 Woe periods with those last 3 trumpets. As long as the 6th trumpet - 2nd woe period is going on, that means it's that 42 months, 1260 days timing, and our Lord Jesus has not come yet, and won't until those 42 months, 1260 days are over with the ending of the 6th trumpet - 2nd woe period.

 

This is NOT that complicated. The 6th trumpet sounds and then ENDS. Then the EVENTS of the 6th trumpet take place: the 1/3 of earth's population being killed. That is the END of the 6th trumpet. Then, AFTER the events of the 6th trumpet, OTHER EVENTS take place that are not associated with the 6th trumpet, except to say they come AFTER the 6th trumpet.  All of chapter 10 fits into this category, as events AFTER the 6th trumpet. The man of sin entering the city of Jerusalem with his armies fits this catigory: this will happen AFTER the 6th trumpet [and the 2nd woe] has come and gone. OF COURSE we can trust John's order, not only here but elsewhere.

 

Doesn't matter how long it takes the 6th trumpet to blow, for the trumpet only marks the start of a period. It does not end until the next trumpet begins to sound. Thus the events given after the 6th trumpet blows are for that period until the 7th trumpet comes. Haven't you even heard of trumpets blown to signal an army in battle? Each trumpet has a certain signification and meaning for the order of battle events.

 

 

our Lord Jesus has not come yet, and won't until those 42 months, 1260 days are over with the ending of the 6th trumpet - 2nd woe period.

 

Get this straight: Jesus does not return until chapter 19, over 1260 days AFTER ALL the events of chapters 11 & 12 (except 11:4-13 - written as a parenthesis). These are MIDPOINT CHAPTERS and Jesus does NOT RETURN AT THE MIDPOINT. You are teaching false doctrine.

 

You're making false accusations you cannot back up, because with the 7th trumpet - 3rd woe of Rev.11, it's all over at that point as we're shown all the kingdoms of this world becoming those of The Father and His Son, and then judgments are shown along with that. You are denying that latter part of Rev.11 right after the 7th trumpet - 3rd woe. Even in Rev.10 we are told that when the 7th angel begins to sound, what God gave His prophets to write will be finished, meaning end of this world bud.

 

 

Jesus does NOT return in chapter 11 nor in chapter 12 nor any other chapter until John finishes the 70th week (chapter 16) and then the marriage in heaven (chapter 19). This theory is trying to make the 7th trumpet the coming of the Lord, when John makes it the MIDPOINT of the week. This theory is simply VERY WRONG. Why would anyone try to rearrange John's book and move Jesus coming to chapter 11? Always remember: the 7th trumpet sounds in heaven to mark the very moment in time when the man of sin enters the temple and declares that he is GOD. The man of sin shows up in Jerusalem 3 1/2 days before this event, and the two witnesses show up perhaps a few seconds after he does.

 

How can all the kingdoms of this world become those of The Father and His Son, with Him reigning forever and ever, unless the dragon's 42 month reign is ended? When the dragon reigns over the kingdoms on this earth for 42 months as written in Rev.13, Jesus is NOT yet reigning over them, otherwise you would be making our Lord Jesus a co-Antichrist with that dragon!

 

The Rev.11 Scripture is very simple about Christ's reign beginning with the 7th trumpet - 3rd woe, even as Rev.10 shows that 7th angel sounding is the end of the prophecies God gave His prophets for this world, So if Jesus is reigining over those kingdoms of the world, it means He has taken them over and ended the dragon's reign with the brightness of His coming.

 

 

The two witnesses show up to begin testifying AFTER the man of sin with his armies arrive in Jerusalem. it is written that they will testify for 1260 days. These days will PARALLEL the 42 months of trampling. Since they are starting their testimony just before the exact midpoint, that shows us they will die just before the 7th vial. Since John tells us they lay dead for 3 1/2 days, and then are raised, is is possible that they begin testifying 3 1/2 days before the midpoint and die 3 1/2 days before the 7th vial?

 

The vials are not mentioned in Rev.11. It's the trumpets/woes that are mentioned, though I do believe the 7th vial does parallel the timing of the 7th trumpet - 3rd woe. The 42 months, 1260 days flow all the way up to the 7th trumpet - 3rd woe period. The time differences of the 3 1/2 days is because the 42 months are given per lunar reckoning (months=moon), and the 1260 days (days=solar) are given per solar reckoning. It's a children of light vs. children of darkness association from other Scripture.

 

WRONG! The 7th vial ENDS the week, while the 7th trumpet marks the MIDPOINT. This should be very easy to see just because the 7th trumpet is in chapter 11 while the 7th vial is in chapter 16. Again, this theory is attempting to rearrange John's book. No one  has any authority to do that, and rearranging is very close to adding to or taking away. WHY would anyone do that when God gives such a warning against it? Next, THERE IS NO NEED, for it is in perfect order as written: the 7th trumpet needs to stay right in chapter 11 where John wrote it, as a MIDPOINT event. There is NOT ONE WORD about a coming at the 7th trumpet.

 

You've got it terribly wrong.

 

The 7th vial is the end, and the 7th trumpet is the end, meaning end of this present world. You refuse to grasp that the dragon cannot be reigning the kingdoms and The Father and His Son also at the same time, which is gross confusion to think that!

 

 

 

Look, this is simple 5th grade arithmetic.  Suppose you start walking from a point exactly 3 1/2 miles East of the center of  New York city with your pet turtle, and your destination is  Miami OK - according to an online map, 1260 miles away.  Suppose you cover only one mile a day (remember your pet turtle). Therefore your trip  will take 1260 days. You  will testify to everyone you meet that the Kingdom of God on earth is at hand. Now, suppose you begin that trip just 3 1/2 days before the 7th trumpet will sound, marking THE EXACT MIDPOINT of the week.. You would arrive in Miami OK just 3 1/2 days before the 7th vial would be poured out.

 

Where in the world did you pull that kind of analogy from? It in NO WAY fits the events given in the Rev.11 Scripture about the 3 and 1/2 days the dead bodies of God's two witnesses will lay in the street of Jerusalem after they finish their 1260 days prophesying. The main reason it does not fit is because the 6th trumpet - 2nd woe BEGINS the mid point of the "one week".

 

So the proper analogy per the actual Scripture would be, you begin your journey at the start of a 1260 day period, which is the start of the 6th trumpet - 2nd woe of Rev.9. After that 1260 days, you are killed by the beast that ascends from the bottomless pit (i.e., the dragon), and your body is left laying in the street for 3 and 1/2 days. At the end of the 3 and 1/2 days, the events of the 7th trumpet - 3rd woe begin to happen which end this world. That would be the proper analogy per the actual written Scripture, because the 7th trumpet timing is paralleled with the events of the 7th vial with Jesus defeating the dragon and his hosts at Armageddon on the day of His coming, and thus taking reign over all the kingdoms of the earth that the dragon had previously ruled over.

 

 

 

No use in continuing this conversation. You obviously are here to make 'joke' out of God's Word and get people to listen to your silly reasoning of mass confusion.

[Last Daze]

Look, this is simple 5th grade arithmetic.  Suppose you start walking from a point exactly 3 1/2 miles East of the center of  New York city with your pet turtle, and your destination is  Miami OK - according to an online map, 1260 miles away.  Suppose you cover only one mile a day (remember your pet turtle). Therefore your trip  will take 1260 days. You  will testify to everyone you meet that the Kingdom of God on earth is at hand. Now, suppose you begin that trip just 3 1/2 days before the 7th trumpet will sound, marking THE EXACT MIDPOINT of the week.. You would arrive in Miami OK just 3 1/2 days before the 7th vial would be poured out.

 

Who, outside of Oklahoma, has even heard of Miami, OK?  And when you read it, you should pronounce it my-am-uh.  Just struck me as an odd destination, that's all.

[iamlamad]

Salty wrote:

 

LAMAD wrote: Look, this is simple 5th grade arithmetic.  Suppose you start walking from a point exactly 3 1/2 miles East of the center of  New York city with your pet turtle, and your destination is  Miami OK - according to an online map, 1260 miles away.  Suppose you cover only one mile a day (remember your pet turtle). Therefore your trip  will take 1260 days. You  will testify to everyone you meet that the Kingdom of God on earth is at hand. Now, suppose you begin that trip just 3 1/2 days before the 7th trumpet will sound, marking THE EXACT MIDPOINT of the week.. You would arrive in Miami OK just 3 1/2 days before the 7th vial would be poured out.

 

Where in the world did you pull that kind of analogy from? It in NO WAY fits the events given in the Rev.11 Scripture about the 3 and 1/2 days the dead bodies of God's two witnesses will lay in the street of Jerusalem after they finish their 1260 days prophesying. The main reason it does not fit is because the 6th trumpet - 2nd woe BEGINS the mid point of the "one week".

 

So the proper analogy per the actual Scripture would be, you begin your journey at the start of a 1260 day period, which is the start of the 6th trumpet - 2nd woe of Rev.9. After that 1260 days, you are killed by the beast that ascends from the bottomless pit (i.e., the dragon), and your body is left laying in the street for 3 and 1/2 days. At the end of the 3 and 1/2 days, the events of the 7th trumpet - 3rd woe begin to happen which end this world. That would be the proper analogy per the actual written Scripture, because the 7th trumpet timing is paralleled with the events of the 7th vial with Jesus defeating the dragon and his hosts at Armageddon on the day of His coming, and thus taking reign over all the kingdoms of the earth that the dragon had previously ruled over.

 

If you will note carefully, 11:3, the first mention of the two witnesses comes just AFTER the mention of the city being trampled for 42 months. This mention of the 42 months shows us CLEARLY that verse 11:2 is a MIDPOINT verse. Maybe not accurate to the very day, but close. (If the actual count was short only 3 1/2 days, it would be close enough to call it 42 months.) Next, 11:3 gives the count in days, meaning it is accurate to the very day: they will testify for 1260 days. In case you missed it, that count, just as the 42 month count is for the LAST HALF of the 70th week. therefore, we know that Daniel is VERY CLOSE to the exact midpoint right here in 11:3. So where you come up with "the 6th trumpet - 2nd woe of Rev.9" is beyond me and completely far-fetched. In fact, just plain silly. By the time John gets to 11:1, the 6th trumpet judgment is HISTORY, done and finished - the 2nd woe is GONE BY BY, completed and history. at this time.

 

Let's count backwards from the 7th vial that ends the week. If I could backwards 42 months, I will arrive (within a few days) of the very time the man of sin enters Jerusalem and begins to testify. If I count backwards by days, and count 3 1/2 first (the time the witnesses lay dead) and then count 1260 days more, I arrive at the EXACT DAY the two witnesses show up and begin their testimony. If you got passing grades in simply arithmetic, you should understand then, that verse 11:3 is VERY CLOSE to the exact midpoint of the week.

 

When God spoke to me and told me I could find the exact midpoint "clearly marked," I asked Him how I could find that. His answer: "Whenever I mentioned an event that would start at the midpoint and go to the end of the week, I ALWAYS included the 3 1/2 year period of time. Therefore, when you find the mentions of the 3 1/2 years, you will be VERY CLOSE to the exact midpoint."

 

I already knew that John had given us those 3 1/2 years in months, in days and in years (times). Both 11:3 and 12:6 give us the time in days, which is the most accurate count given. It makes VERY GOOD sense then, that the exact midpoint will be somewhere between these two verses. In fact, if we read what Jesus said about those who SEE the abomination - that they are to flee instantly, no time to return to get a coat or anything else - we can determine by logic that verse 12:6, those living in Judea fleeing into the mountains, will be only a second or two after the abomination.

 

So what big event is written between 11:3 and 12:6? It is the 7th trumpet. It almost jumps off the page proclaiming MIDPOINT.

 

because the 6th trumpet - 2nd woe BEGINS the mid point of the "one week".

 

Suppose you attempt to prove this point with scripture?

 

So the proper analogy per the actual Scripture would be, you begin your journey at the start of a 1260 day period, which is the start of the 6th trumpet - 2nd woe of Rev.9.

 

how far off from scripture can one answer be? In my analogy, you were one of the two witnesses. Did that go right over your head? John shows them showing up in Jerusalem in VERSE 11:3. Therefore, please explain why YOU show their coming in some previous chapter.

 

Please note, the first six trumpet judgments are in the first half of the week. If they were spaced evenly, (I am not saying they will be) they would be 7 months apart: 5 months in duration each, then God allowing 2 months for repentance. John tells us one will be 5 months. My point is, #6 will be MUCH CLOSER to the midpoint than to the beginning. My question is, why on earth would you imagine that the two witnesses show up there, rather than where John puts their entrance?

 

After that 1260 days, you are killed by the beast that ascends from the bottomless pit (i.e., the dragon), and your body is left laying in the street for 3 and 1/2 days. At the end of the 3 and 1/2 days, the events of the 7th trumpet - 3rd woe begin to happen which end this world.

 

This is just about as far off from truth as possible. Jesus told me personally that every mention of the 3 1/2 year period was of an event beginning at the midpoint and continuing to the end. That CERTAINLY includes the 1260 days of the two witnesses. You are MISSING the point that John begins their testimony AFTER the 42 months of trampling begins. You don't have the authority to move their entrance or their beginning ANYWHERE ELSE. Leave it where John put it, and BELIEVE IT as written. It makes perfect sense as written without your attempts to rearrange.

 

AGain I ask, do you have any idea what a parenthesis is?

 

This time I will ask questions:

 

Do you imagine that 11:3 is 42 months after 11:2?

Do you imagine that 12:7 is 1260 days after 12:6?

Do you imagine that 13:6 is 42 months after 13:5?

 

Do you realize that if you make each of these verses fulfilled in their verse of mention, then the 70th week becomes 5 times 42 months long, or 17 1/2 years long? That is  complete silliness! The year is 7 years long, and every mention of a period of 3 1/2 years, whether given in days or months or years, ALL REFERENCE the last half of the week. That includes the 1260 days for the two witnesses. Therefore logic PROVES that the story of the two witnesses, verses 11:4  - 11:13 are written as a parenthesis with NO BEARING on chronology.

 

I remind you, Jesus Christ spoke to me and I heard His voice and His words telling me that EVERY MENTION of the 3 1/2 years was of events beginning at the midpoint and going to the end of the week. This includes times given and days, months or years.

 

So my question to you is, WHY would you attempt to move the beginning of the two witnesses BACK in time? What is your purpose?

I believe Jesus and I believe John, and having them show up and begin testifying just 3 1/2 days before the midpoint, then being killed just 3 1/2 days before the 7th vial works perfectly with what is written.

 

The way John has written this, the 42 months of trampling, the 1260 days of testifying, the 1260 days of fleeing, the 3 1/2 years of protection, and the 42 months of authority all will end at or very near the 7th vial that ends the week. Therefore I find your theory complete nonsense.

 

the 7th trumpet timing is paralleled with the events of the 7th vial

 

This is just more nonsense. There are paralells: all the five mentions of the 3 1/2 year period of time parallel each other for the last half of the week. The 7th trumpet marks the MIDPOINT.

 

Look at what Jesus said:

 

Matt 24

¹⁵ When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand:)

¹⁶ Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains:

 

Now compare:

 

Rev. 12

⁶ And the woman fled into the wilderness, where she hath a place prepared of God, that they should feed her there a thousand two hundred and threescore days.

 

As I have pointed out, 12:6 timing is only ONE SECOND after the abomination. It is also 1 second after the 7th trumpet.

 

LAMAD

[iamlamad]

 

Look, this is simple 5th grade arithmetic.  Suppose you start walking from a point exactly 3 1/2 miles East of the center of  New York city with your pet turtle, and your destination is  Miami OK - according to an online map, 1260 miles away.  Suppose you cover only one mile a day (remember your pet turtle). Therefore your trip  will take 1260 days. You  will testify to everyone you meet that the Kingdom of God on earth is at hand. Now, suppose you begin that trip just 3 1/2 days before the 7th trumpet will sound, marking THE EXACT MIDPOINT of the week.. You would arrive in Miami OK just 3 1/2 days before the 7th vial would be poured out.

 

Who, outside of Oklahoma, has even heard of Miami, OK?  And when you read it, you should pronounce it my-am-uh.  Just struck me as an odd destination, that's all.

 

I wanted to start at New York City. It took some time to find a city exactly 1260 miles away!

 

LAMAD

[Last Daze]

 

 

Look, this is simple 5th grade arithmetic.  Suppose you start walking from a point exactly 3 1/2 miles East of the center of  New York city with your pet turtle, and your destination is  Miami OK - according to an online map, 1260 miles away.  Suppose you cover only one mile a day (remember your pet turtle). Therefore your trip  will take 1260 days. You  will testify to everyone you meet that the Kingdom of God on earth is at hand. Now, suppose you begin that trip just 3 1/2 days before the 7th trumpet will sound, marking THE EXACT MIDPOINT of the week.. You would arrive in Miami OK just 3 1/2 days before the 7th vial would be poured out.

 

Who, outside of Oklahoma, has even heard of Miami, OK?  And when you read it, you should pronounce it my-am-uh.  Just struck me as an odd destination, that's all.

 

I wanted to start at New York City. It took some time to find a city exactly 1260 miles away!

 

LAMAD

 

That's funny that it wound up being there.

[ncn]

I have hidden two posts. 

 

Please ensure that you are discussing the issue, not the person.

 

If you know you are butting heads with another member, be the first to offer an olive branch and be the peacemaker.

If you notice that you are getting heated by another’s response, walk away from the thread until you know you have His peace back in your life over the issue.

 

Debate the subject, not the person.

 

God Bless .

 

Nigel.