The Unutterable Prayers of the Holy Spirit

[Hobbes]

 

I thank the Lord for helping me to serve Him and to clarify as I thank Him for enabling you to receive it.

Dear earnest Brother, I have been speaking in tongues since 1975. Forgive me for being a little sarcastic, I think that I have a grasp on the idea of the Spirit groaning and the gift of speaking in tongues.

 

 

Ah.  I see Brother.  Well, I forgive you.  I understand that believers that have accepted something at face value seldom take pause because of the scripture to take the matter before the Lord Jesus Christ at that throne of grace in prayer for confirmation and discernment but I never know when God is perdaventuring and so I can only hope.

[He giveth more grace]

Ah.  I see Brother.  Well, I forgive you.  I understand that believers that have accepted something at face value seldom take pause because of the scripture to take the matter before the Lord Jesus Christ at that throne of grace in prayer for confirmation and discernment but I never know when God is perdaventuring and so I can only hope.

Your forgiven as well, though I always would like to know what I am forgiven for.

[other one]

 

 

 

So the Holy Spirit has His own intercessions, but He cannot give them Himself which is why "itself" was used in the KJV.

 

The Holy Spirit is limited by speaking what He hears.

 

John 16:¹³ Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come.

 

Therefore God's gift of tongues which comes with no interpretation is not of Him at all to be used as a form of a prayer language.

 

The Holy Spirit was given to us for guidance and I agree that he can not  give them himself, which is why we ourselves must pray for those things.....    and in some cases we ourselves do not need to know, thus we speak them in utterances that we don't understand..    so I would disagree that tongues with no interpretation is not from God.

 

 

The reasons why the Holy Spirit cannot give His own prayers Himself is because the Son of God has to give them for Him.  The words "with groanings which cannot be uttered" means nothing is being uttered at all.  Yes, the Holy Spirit is groaning but they are not uttered to be heard.  That is why the Son is knowing the mind of the Spirit so that the Son can give the Spirit's intercessions for Him.

 

With the Son of God at that throne of grace searching our hearts and knowing the mind of the Spirit is how this truth below can happen.

 

Matthew 6:⁷ But when ye pray, use not vain repetitions, as the heathen do: for they think that they shall be heard for their much speaking. ⁸ Be not ye therefore like unto them: for your Father knoweth what things ye have need of, before ye ask him.

 

With the Holy Spirit limited to speak what He hears as God's gift of tongues are of other men's lips to speak unto the people, then believers are to shun vain and profane babblings as form of a prayer languagem because that is not a manifestation of the Holy Spirit, but to pray normally and know what we had prayed for so we can give thanks to God the Father for answered prayers.

 

Well being a person who does occasionally get awakened in the middle of the night to pray for folks in great need in something other than what I understand, i would say that I simply do not see your way of thinking.

 

The first time was to save my wife from abduction while I was not at home and I would find it rather disturbing to have you say that it was from the devil.....   I didn't ask for it and it really is disturbing when it happens..... 

[Hobbes]

 

Ah.  I see Brother.  Well, I forgive you.  I understand that believers that have accepted something at face value seldom take pause because of the scripture to take the matter before the Lord Jesus Christ at that throne of grace in prayer for confirmation and discernment but I never know when God is perdaventuring and so I can only hope.

Your forgiven as well, though I always would like to know what I am forgiven for.

 

 

Well, you admitted to being sarcastic for which I misunderstood you that you felt the need to clarify.  Anyway, I do not seek forgiveness for asking believers to reconsider with Jesus, the practise and the beliefs they are in when I deem them not of Him by the scripture.

Edited August 19, 2014 by Hobbes

[Hobbes]

 

Well being a person who does occasionally get awakened in the middle of the night to pray for folks in great need in something other than what I understand, i would say that I simply do not see your way of thinking.

 

 

The first time was to save my wife from abduction while I was not at home and I would find it rather disturbing to have you say that it was from the devil.....   I didn't ask for it and it really is disturbing when it happens..... 

 

 

Well, seeing how you are trying to validate tongues, all I can say is how can you know that is what you had prayed for, in order for you to give credit to tongues?

 

Catholics give credit to Mary and the departed saints for answered prayers.  They will even hype it as a guarantee when praying to a specific saint.  And they pray to the Holy Spirit too and get responses like being thrown down or laughing uncontrollably or receiving the Holy Spirit again with the evidence of tongues.  There is such a thing as Catholic Charismatics.

 

So we are not to believe every spirit but test them and the tongues they bring.  It would be erroneous to credit any good thing that happens in life to tongues as a prayer language.

 

Let's face it.  You did not know about your wife's abduction, but yet suuposedly the Spirit did and started praying in tongues.  If Matthew 6:7-8 testify that the Father knows before we ask anything in prayer, then why would the Holy Spirit have to pray in tongues for the Father to know?  Is not the Holy Spirit in your wife?  Yes.  Would not the Father know before she asked anything in prayer?  Yes.  Then what?  At any rate, scripture leads me to believe that believers are romancing tongues as a prayer language and likes to give credit to it for things that happen in life, but I do not believe it is of Him.

 

We are to prove all things and abstain from all appearances of evil:  and if believers have accepted tongues to be a prayer language, then they will continue to be subjected to them;  but they should consider those born again believers coming out of the occults like voodooism where they have spoken in supernatural tongues that is babbling nonsense.  How can they be a witness of they practise the same kind of tongues in the church?  Can anyone believe they have truly repented?  And what happens when he tries to win his friends away from voodooism and the tongues they use?  Will they believe that he has changed? 

 

So no.  Experiences are to be discerned by scripture instead of trying to fit experiences into scripture.  There is no way God would copycat Satan's supernatural tongue of babbling nonsense and he has been doing it before God's gift of tongues had come at Pentecost.

 

Isaiah 8:¹⁹ And when they shall say unto you, Seek unto them that have familiar spirits, and unto wizards that peep, and that mutter: should not a people seek unto their God? for the living to the dead?

 

All I can do is pray that God shall lead you to reconsider because I am sure you are not credittng bad things that happen in life when you had prayed in tongues at that moment.

[OneLight]

Hobbes, The Holy Spirit is God, or do you not believe in the Trinity? Why does God need to tell God what He is interceding about? Jesus was speaking about men needing to go through Him to get to the father, meaning salvation, not praying, though He is our intercessor also.

[other one]

 

Well, seeing how you are trying to validate tongues, all I can say is how can you know that is what you had prayed for, in order for you to give credit to tongues?

 

That is a very long story that I doubt you would take the time to absorb.    

[Hobbes]

Hobbes, The Holy Spirit is God, or do you not believe in the Trinity? Why does God need to tell God what He is interceding about? Jesus was speaking about men needing to go through Him to get to the father, meaning salvation, not praying, though He is our intercessor also.

 

Hi OneLight,

 

Yes, the Holy Spirit is God and there is a Triune God, but Jesus was talking more than just about salvation when it comes to John 14:6 because that commandment of His invitation was how to come to God the Father for anything and that is by Him.

 

As for God needing God to tell God what He is interceding about, if you consider the Son at that throne of grace as our Passover Lamb by Whom we have access to God the Father to even approach Him in prayer, fellowship, and worship, then you can see why Jesus has to be the sole Intercessor as being our only Mediator between God and man because when He gives our intercessions and the intercessions of the Spirit's concerning us to the Father, when the Father says "Yes," the Son answers our prayers so that the Father may be glorified in the Son for answered prayers.  That is why we are to give God the Father thanks in Jesus' name.

 

Only the Son can give all intercessions concerning us to the Father because there is only One Mediator between us & the Father.  Believers that oppose that truth, do so by ignoring how prayers are answered by the Son so that the Father may be glorified in Him.

[Hobbes]

 

 

Well, seeing how you are trying to validate tongues, all I can say is how can you know that is what you had prayed for, in order for you to give credit to tongues?

 

That is a very long story that I doubt you would take the time to absorb.    

 

It doesn't matter because it goes against scripture. 

A neighbour across the street testify of how one day she was reading her Bible in the kitchen and the Holy Spirit came over her and she began speaking in tongues for the first time.  She then went on to say that was when she was saved because she got it all at once.

 

I am not doubting that she had that experience until I had asked her what she was reading that led her to believe in Jesus.  She did not know what I had meant at first and then she went on to say that she had gone to her pastor and asked why this had occurred when she was a believer for a long time.  The pastor pointed to Acts which I assume was Acts 2nd chapter where the disciples were just waiting around doing every day thing when they had received the promise, and said that was that.

 

The Bible helps me to discern that what she had experienced was not the Holy Ghost because the Spirit of Truth would not lead her to change her testimony because of that incident to when she was "officially" saved, but she believed it and that leads to the so called heresey going around that some believers believe that you need to speak in tongues to know that you have the Holy Spirit in order to be saved.

 

Then you have people like Joyce Meyers that testify she began speaking in tongues and that was the moment God was calling her into the ministry.  I even read one time how she interpreted tongues;  she would feel in her spirit what is being said and interpret it.  I do not believe she has the actual gift of interpretation either as I can see how believers are winging the interpretation now too.

 

Scripture testify that in not believing every spirit but test them in 1 John 4:1 and that was by the examination of our fath in 2 Corinthians 13:5 which is Jesus Christ in us, and that is the same thing in 1 John 4:2 because this was about testing the spirits, not reproving the heresey that Jesus had never come in the flesh.  The term "is come" in verse 2 & 3 is menaing presnetly as to where Jesus Christ is now as in inside of us.  By going into verse 3, I see that any spirit that does not confess to that faith of Jesus Christ being in us is the spirit of the antichrist that is in the world as it concludes in verse 4 that greater is he that is in you than he that is in the world.  And then it spoke of how those in error speak as the world speak which I take it to refer to superntaurl tongue with no interpretation;  as babbling nonsense which can find its existence in the world before Pentecost in the occult and other religions.

 

And so it takes Christ love to address the beloeved brothers and sisters that have been led astray by those spirits and the tongues they bring.

 

1 John 4:1Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world. ² Hereby know ye the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God: ³ And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world. ⁴ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world. ⁵ They are of the world: therefore speak they of the world, and the world heareth them. ⁶ We are of God: he that knoweth God heareth us; he that is not of God heareth not us. Hereby know we the spirit of truth, and the spirit of error. ⁷ Beloved, let us love one another: for love is of God; and every one that loveth is born of God, and knoweth God.

 

Those tongues are accompanying and supporting an apostasy of receiving another baptism with the Holy Ghost again with evidence of tongues; disregarding also the warning against those preaching another Jesus or another spirit to receive.

 

2 Corinthaisn 11:³ But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through his subtilty, so your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ. ⁴ For if he that cometh preacheth another Jesus, whom we have not preached, or if ye receive another spirit, which ye have not received, or another gospel, which ye have not accepted, ye might well bear with him.

 

Jesus also warned about climbing up another way and getting the result of following a stranger's voice because of it, as many believers do ask the Holy Spirit for those tongues as well as seeking to receive Him again with evidence of tongues.

 

John 10:1Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that entereth not by the door into the sheepfold, but climbeth up some other way, the same is a thief and a robber. ² But he that entereth in by the door is the shepherd of the sheep. ³ To him the porter openeth; and the sheep hear his voice: and he calleth his own sheep by name, and leadeth them out. ⁴ And when he putteth forth his own sheep, he goeth before them, and the sheep follow him: for they know his voice. ⁵ And a stranger will they not follow, but will flee from him: for they know not the voice of strangers. ⁶ This parable spake Jesus unto them: but they understood not what things they were which he spake unto them. ⁷ Then said Jesus unto them again, Verily, verily, I say unto you, I am the door of the sheep.

⁸ All that ever came before me are thieves and robbers: but the sheep did not hear them. ⁹ I am the door:

 

 

Jesus testified that climbing up another way would lead believers to follow a stranger's voice as tongues without interpretation is having believers following a stranger's voice.  The thief is the one that comes inbetween us and the Son as verse 7 testify and Jesus re-emphasizes how He is the only way we can approach God the Father for life with God in anything;  prayer, fellowship, and worship.  We truly are reconciled to God the Father thru the Bridegroom, the Lord Jesus Christ.  He speaks to us thru the Holy Spirit in us as we as the bride of Christ are to speak to the Bridegroom in relating to God by to avoid false spirits in the world that seeks to seduce us into having them come inbetween us and the Son.

Edited August 20, 2014 by Hobbes

[OneLight]

 

Hobbes, The Holy Spirit is God, or do you not believe in the Trinity? Why does God need to tell God what He is interceding about? Jesus was speaking about men needing to go through Him to get to the father, meaning salvation, not praying, though He is our intercessor also.

 

Hi OneLight,

 

Yes, the Holy Spirit is God and there is a Triune God, but Jesus was talking more than just about salvation when it comes to John 14:6 because that commandment of His invitation was how to come to God the Father for anything and that is by Him.

 

As for God needing God to tell God what He is interceding about, if you consider the Son at that throne of grace as our Passover Lamb by Whom we have access to God the Father to even approach Him in prayer, fellowship, and worship, then you can see why Jesus has to be the sole Intercessor as being our only Mediator between God and man because when He gives our intercessions and the intercessions of the Spirit's concerning us to the Father, when the Father says "Yes," the Son answers our prayers so that the Father may be glorified in the Son for answered prayers.  That is why we are to give God the Father thanks in Jesus' name.

 

Only the Son can give all intercessions concerning us to the Father because there is only One Mediator between us & the Father.  Believers that oppose that truth, do so by ignoring how prayers are answered by the Son so that the Father may be glorified in Him.

 

 

 

Let's look at the verse in context.

 

John 14:1-6

“Let not your heart be troubled; you believe in God, believe also in Me. In My Father’s house are many mansions; if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you. And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again and receive you to Myself; that where I am, there you may be also. And where I go you know, and the way you know.”

Thomas said to Him, “Lord, we do not know where You are going, and how can we know the way?”

Jesus said to him, “I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through Me.

Jesus is speaking of salvation.  What Jesus teaches in scripture focuses on one point, returning the lost to the Father.  It may include prayer, but that is not His focus.  Prayer is what salvation encompasses, not the end point.

 

When the Holy Spirit prays for us, it is Him exposing what is in our heart.  God already knows, so the reason for this, from what I can see, is to relieve us of the burden we do not know is there.  We, when we don't know what to prayer for, do, at times, pray in the spirit.  It is a blessing that He has given us this ability to communicate to Him in a way that echoes our heart, not what we mentally know.  That is different than speaking in tongues to the congregation.