The Unutterable Prayers of the Holy Spirit

[kwikphilly]

Blessings   Hobbes....

    I am really not even sure that anything is up for discussion as far as reading the OP......seems like an opportunity to teach & if anyone disagrees with anything or has any opinion it is debunked .....so what is this thread about ,if i may plainly ask?    Without the attitude of trying to teach all of us blind Christians please!                                                        Kwik

[Willa]

Hobbes, The Holy Spirit is God, or do you not believe in the Trinity? Why does God need to tell God what He is interceding about? Jesus was speaking about men needing to go through Him to get to the father, meaning salvation, not praying, though He is our intercessor also.

Thank you, OneLight, that is what I was about to say as well.

When people do not have the enlightenment of the Holy Spirit to recognize the things of the Spirit even in scripture, having hardened their hearts, it is useless to argue with them. Sometimes they interpret scripture in light of their bad experiences or their prejudices. We can pray that they will be restrained from committing blasphemy against the Holy Spirit by calling His work the work of satan. We can pray for them in the Spirit; and we can pray that the God of our Lord Jesus Christ , the Father of glory, may give to them the Spirit of widom and revelation in the knowledge of Him, the eyes of their understanding being enlightened. Amen. And we can ask God to bless them.

I also have groaned in prayer as if in travail that Christ might be formed in my husband, while praying for his salvation. This intercession was too deep to express in mere words. I thank God for all of His power tools, and especially those that build up or bless the body of Christ.

In His love,

Willa

[Guest]

The reasons why the Holy Spirit cannot give His own prayers Himself is because the Son of God has to give them for Him.

 

~

 

Beloved

 

But ye, beloved, building up yourselves on your most holy faith, praying in the Holy Ghost, Jude 1:20

 

The Holy Ghost

 

Praying always with all prayer and supplication in the Spirit, and watching thereunto with all perseverance and supplication for all saints; Ephesians 6:18

 

IS

 

The Spirit of God hath made me, and the breath of the Almighty hath given me life. Job 33:4

 

God

 

Thou sendest forth thy spirit, they are created: and thou renewest the face of the earth. Psalms 104:30

 

~

 

And it came to pass in those days, that Jesus came from Nazareth of Galilee, and was baptized of John in Jordan.

 

And straightway coming up out of the water, he saw the heavens opened, and the Spirit like a dove descending upon him:

 

And there came a voice from heaven, saying, Thou art my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.

 

And immediately the Spirit driveth him into the wilderness. Mark 1:9-12

 

We believe in God, the almighty creator of heaven and earth.

 

We believe in the triunity of God. We believe that God is eternally One, and also eternally the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit — the three being distinct, but not separate. Each Person of the Godhead coexists from everlasting to everlasting. http://www.worthynetwork.com/statement-of-faith

[Hobbes]

Blessings   Hobbes....

    I am really not even sure that anything is up for discussion as far as reading the OP......seems like an opportunity to teach & if anyone disagrees with anything or has any opinion it is debunked .....so what is this thread about ,if i may plainly ask?    Without the attitude of trying to teach all of us blind Christians please!                                                        Kwik

 

Let's say that I had come across a verse in the NASB that told me it was wrong for me to be angry to such a point that I would be judged. 

 

Matthew 5:²² But I say to you that everyone who is angry with his brother shall be guilty before the court; and whoever says to his brother, ‘You good-for-nothing,’ shall be guilty before the supreme court; and whoever says, ‘You fool,’ shall be guilty enough to go into the fiery hell.  NASB

 

Now my Sunday school teacher at the time would go to another verse in that same Bible to try to convince me otherwise that it was not wrong just as long as we do not sin or let it festor.

 

Ephesians 4:26Be ye angry, and sin not: let not the sun go down upon your wrath:

 

 

So immediately there is doubt in His words at that time as far as I was concern.  So I look at Jesus's words and then Paul's words and decide to play it safe and still see getting angry as a sin itself....until the Lord led me to the KJV.

 

Matthew 5:22But I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment: and whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council: but whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire.  KJV

 

Then I started relying on the KJV for keeping His words now that I was able to see the actual truths in His words.

 

The same goes for Romans 8:26-27.  All I can do is point out something that is an error in ALL modern Bibles because they do testify that the Holy Spirit does make these intercessions Himself; instead of "itself" as the KJV and the 1599 Geneva Bible has it; and some modern Bible testify falsely that sounds are being made for these groanings to be heard, but in the OP at the link provided, the definition for alaletos means the intercessions of the Spirit's are not uttered nor spoken at all;  hence no sound.  That is the whole point for knowing the mind of the Spirit in verse 27 in edifying us about how the untterable intercessions of the Spirit's are made known because the One searching our hearts is giving ours and the intercessions of the Spirit's to the Father in according to the will of God of there being only One Mediator at that throne of grace, the man Christ Jesus, because it is His job to not only give our intercessions and the Spirit's intercessions to the Father, but to answer those prayers so that the Father may be glorified in the Son for answered prayers which is why thanksgiving are to be given to the Father in Jesus's name which is the will of God to do.

 

Pointing out how the KJV translations lines up with other truths in scripture to reconsider what others and the church had taken at face value in error when reading those verses in their modern Bible is something I was led to share and it is up to the Lord to lead them to take it to that throne of grace for discernment and confirmation for the truth in His words.  I cannot do that for them.

 

WE all have something that the Lord has given us to share;  called talents, but as in all things, we are to prove all things by taking it to Jesus Christ at that throne of grace to help prove them for confirmation of the truths in His words as only God can cause the increase.

 

1 Thessalonaisn 5:²¹ Prove all things; hold fast that which is good. ²² Abstain from all appearance of evil. ²³ And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ. ²⁴ Faithful is he that calleth you, who also will do it.

[Hobbes]

 

Hobbes, The Holy Spirit is God, or do you not believe in the Trinity? Why does God need to tell God what He is interceding about? Jesus was speaking about men needing to go through Him to get to the father, meaning salvation, not praying, though He is our intercessor also.

Thank you, OneLight, that is what I was about to say as well.

When people do not have the enlightenment of the Holy Spirit to recognize the things of the Spirit even in scripture, having hardened their hearts, it is useless to argue with them. Sometimes they interpret scripture in light of their bad experiences or their prejudices.

 

Or sometimes, believers are reading something that was translated wrong in their modern Bibles to see why the KJV has it right because it lines up with other scriptural truths being testified in the Bible.  They may never had taken that matter to the Lord Jesus Christ in prayer for confirmation as to which Bible has given us the correct message in keeping with the truths in His words, and whethor other discernment are necessary for any errant practises or errant teachings that has been derived from that errant Bible.

[kwikphilly]

Blessings Hobbes...

 

Let's say that I had come across a verse in the NASB that told me it was wrong for me to be angry to such a point that I would be judged.

                                                                                                                                                                      posted by Hobbes

 I see,were you having an issue with forsaking anger?If I may ask? Or do you just mean"for me to be angry":in general(as for anyone0,not really referring to yourself                                                                                             

 

WE all have something that the Lord has given us to share;  called talents, but as in all things, we are to prove all things by taking it to Jesus Christ at that throne of grace to help prove them for confirmation of the truths in His words as only God can cause the increase.

   You can call them "talents",if you will,it is not inappropriate at all,,,,,personally,I prefer to  call them 'gifts" & as in one breathe you do say that only God can give increase  & by that I am understanding you to be speaking about the Wisdom & Understanding that we receive in revelations made known to us by the Power of the Holy Spirit,,,,so then why do you feel that 'we" need to PROVE anything....the Lord certainly does not need HELP in confirming His timeless Truths,,,,,,It is a great privilege & an honor if He so desires to use me in such a way but He does not NEED my help..............ALL Glory be to God in ALL things!                                                    With love,Kwik

[Hobbes]

 

The reasons why the Holy Spirit cannot give His own prayers Himself is because the Son of God has to give them for Him.

 

Thanks for sharing FresnoJoe.  As I go thru these references, please lean on Jesus Christ as our Good Shepherd to at leats understand where I am coming from and then ask Him if that is the correct reading in light of His words in other places in the scripture as kept by the KJV

~

 

Beloved

 

But ye, beloved, building up yourselves on your most holy faith, praying in the Holy Ghost, Jude 1:20

 

 

Praying IN the Holy Ghost would mean never pray as if you were OUT of the Holy Ghost as many believers are praying OUT of the Holy Ghost when seeking to receive the Holy Ghost again.  So the command to pray IN the Holy Ghost is keeping with our faith as opposing those praying TO the Holy Spirit as if He is the One at that throne of grace to answer our prayers when He is not, but dwelling within us as the Spirit of Christ to relay the words of Christ to us since the Spirit can only speak what He hears.

The Holy Ghost

 

Praying always with all prayer and supplication in the Spirit, and watching thereunto with all perseverance and supplication for all saints; Ephesians 6:18

 

 

Again, praying IN the Spirit testify to not praying OUT of the Spirit and this never means praying TO the Spirit or BY the Spirit since WE are the ones that should be praying. 

IS

 

The Spirit of God hath made me, and the breath of the Almighty hath given me life. Job 33:4

 

God

 

 

 

Thou sendest forth thy spirit, they are created: and thou renewest the face of the earth. Psalms 104:30

 

~

 

No denying that the Spirit of God as God had a hand in creation since it has taken Three Witnesses to establish a word in creation, but it was by the Son that everything was made as it was made by Him as the Word of God. 

 

Matthew 18:¹⁶ But if he will not hear thee, then take with thee one or two more, that in the mouth of two or three witnesses every word may be established.

 

2 Corinthians 13:1This is the third time I am coming to you. In the mouth of two or three witnesses shall every word be established.

 

That was how any word was established in creation by God and Jesus being the Word of God, everything was made by Him..

 

John 1:1In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. ² The same was in the beginning with God. ³ All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.....¹⁰ He was in the world, and the world was made by him, and the world knew him not. ¹¹ He came unto his own, and his own received him not.

And it came to pass in those days, that Jesus came from Nazareth of Galilee, and was baptized of John in Jordan.

 

And straightway coming up out of the water, he saw the heavens opened, and the Spirit like a dove descending upon him:

 

And there came a voice from heaven, saying, Thou art my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.

 

And immediately the Spirit driveth him into the wilderness. Mark 1:9-12

 

We believe in God, the almighty creator of heaven and earth.

 

We believe in the triunity of God. We believe that God is eternally One, and also eternally the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit — the three being distinct, but not separate. Each Person of the Godhead coexists from everlasting to everlasting. http://www.worthynetwork.com/statement-of-faith

 

 

 

In the testimony at Jesus's baptism, Two Witnesses were required for the Son of God to be testified as being God by God for that testimony to be true in according to the Word of God..

 

John 8:¹⁷ It is also written in your law, that the testimony of two men is true.

 

I believe in the Triune God too, but not all Three Witnesses died on the cross.  This is where the mind of Christ is to be centered on:  the Bridegroom as we have been reconciled to God by Him and we are living this reconciled relatioshipw ith God the Father thru Jesus Christ and because there are other spirits in the world trying to get inbetween us & the Son, this is why the inderlling Holy Ghost is still pointing believers to go to the Bridegroom in coming to God the Father by because there is no other way in prayer, fellowship, or worship.

 

1 Corinthians 1:⁹ God is faithful, by whom ye were called unto the fellowship of his Son Jesus Christ our Lord.

 

1 Corinthians 2:² For I determined not to know any thing among you, save Jesus Christ, and him crucified

 

John 13:³¹ Therefore, when he was gone out, Jesus said, Now is the Son of man glorified, and God is glorified in him. ³² If God be glorified in him, God shall also glorify him in himself, and shall straightway glorify him.

 

John 5:²² For the Father judgeth no man, but hath committed all judgment unto the Son: ²³ That all men should honour the Son, even as they honour the Father. He that honoureth not the Son honoureth not the Father which hath sent him.

 

Look at the judgment given to every beliver and do note that there is no way that Jesus would have forgotten about the Holy Spirit.  Verse 23 is telltaling because the moment we stop honouring the Son, we are no longer honouring the Father and so that is why we are not to honour the Holy Spirit in worship because the Holy Spirit is sent to glorify Jesus Christ and how can He do thay except thru us?

 

 http://www.worthychristianforums.com/topic/183574-the-witnessing-role-of-the-holy-ghost-limits-our-worship/

Edited August 22, 2014 by Hobbes

[Hobbes]

Blessings Hobbes...

 

Let's say that I had come across a verse in the NASB that told me it was wrong for me to be angry to such a point that I would be judged.

                                                                                                                                                                      posted by Hobbes

 I see,were you having an issue with forsaking anger?If I may ask? Or do you just mean"for me to be angry":in general(as for anyone0,not really referring to yourself                                                                                             

 

WE all have something that the Lord has given us to share;  called talents, but as in all things, we are to prove all things by taking it to Jesus Christ at that throne of grace to help prove them for confirmation of the truths in His words as only God can cause the increase.

   You can call them "talents",if you will,it is not inappropriate at all,,,,,personally,I prefer to  call them 'gifts" & as in one breathe you do say that only God can give increase  & by that I am understanding you to be speaking about the Wisdom & Understanding that we receive in revelations made known to us by the Power of the Holy Spirit,,,,so then why do you feel that 'we" need to PROVE anything....the Lord certainly does not need HELP in confirming His timeless Truths,,,,,,It is a great privilege & an honor if He so desires to use me in such a way but He does not NEED my help..............ALL Glory be to God in ALL things!                                                    With love,Kwik

 

Per your first question, yes, I had believed it was wrong for me to be angry at all, but the KJV cleared that up.

 

Per your second question, we are not always proving things by Him, but taking everything at face value.  I was led to make a commitment to follow Christ in making Him Lord of my life but Jesus never taught that.  He said "Follow Me"  not make a promise to follow Me.  I was brought into a religious bindage that led me to do the best I can and failing.  Until He led me to trust in Him all the time for living the christian life, He had set me free from that commitment to only live by faith in the Son of God in me for living the christian life in following Him by His grace & by His help.

 

Sometimes, churches err by misleading men into bondage to show proof of sincerity, but we are to lean on Him to be sincere in trusting Him for living as His because that glory belongs to Him too.  A believers' commitments speaks of himself or herself and thus it is a false witness, a boast in the flesh, and a boast of what good they will do tomorrow which is an evil boasting;  James 4:13-17 & James 5:12   We are to standfast in the liberty for which Christ has set us free and not entangle ourselves in a yoke of bondage because we hope for the fruits of righteousness by faith in Jesus Christ since we are trusting Him to do His work in us.

 

Galatians 5:1Stand fast therefore in the liberty wherewith Christ hath made us free, and be not entangled again with the yoke of bondage.....⁵ For we through the Spirit wait for the hope of righteousness by faith.

 

Philippians 1:⁶ Being confident of this very thing, that he which hath begun a good work in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ: ⁷ Even as it is meet for me to think this of you all, because I have you in my heart; inasmuch as both in my bonds, and in the defence and confirmation of the gospel, ye all are partakers of my grace. ⁸ For God is my record, how greatly I long after you all in the bowels of Jesus Christ. ⁹ And this I pray, that your love may abound yet more and more in knowledge and in all judgment; ¹⁰ That ye may approve things that are excellent; that ye may be sincere and without offence till the day of Christ. ¹¹ Being filled with the fruits of righteousness, which are by Jesus Christ, unto the glory and praise of God.

 

Seeing the prophecy of the falling away from the faith and how false prophets will come in to mislead many astray that many will be falling as per Matthew 7:13-27 and run teh risk of being left behind at the pre tribulational rapture per same lesson in Luke 13:24-30, then there is necessity for believers tpo stop following the staus quo and prove everything being taught them with His help at that throne of grace by the scripture as kept in the KJV by those that loved Him and His words in keeping them for us to follow Him. 

 

Jesus as the Good Shepherd will confirm that the KJV is the one to rely on for the actual meaning of His words to live & discern by.

[kwikphilly]

Blessings Hobbs......

     I am only going to comment on one thing at this time because I get the notion that you are trying to teach others what you believe to be true & this is an important issue.....

 

I was led to make a commitment to follow Christ in making Him Lord of my life but Jesus never taught that.  He said "Follow Me"  not make a promise to follow Me.                                                                                                                                 Posted by Hobbes              

 Jesus also said......

 

John 14:15

                                            “If you love Me, you will keep My commandments."

     Of course,I do firmly believe that keeping His commandments comes as a result of the indwelling of His Holy Spirit because we are Saved by the Grace of God through our Faith in Christ Jesus..........but,by Jesus own Words ,without fully committing yourself can you truly "follow Him?''Do you truly love Him if you have reservations & are not willing to forsake self?

      I do not know what church you went to or who told you anything about "promises" but it I think when Jesus invited us to 'Follow Him",we must be committed to that and I would never want to discourage anyone from committing themselves to Jesus......in complete surrender. And if there is anyone  that wants Salvation & they would like to make a promise to Jesus,then by all means, do that & He will help you to keep that promise.by the Power of the Holy Spirit ...............God bless you,perhaps I can come back later but this is the only thing I really felt compelled to reply to

                                                                                                                                                      With love,Kwik

[Hobbes]

Blessings Hobbs......

     I am only going to comment on one thing at this time because I get the notion that you are trying to teach others what you believe to be true & this is an important issue.....

 

I was led to make a commitment to follow Christ in making Him Lord of my life but Jesus never taught that.  He said "Follow Me"  not make a promise to follow Me.                                                                                                                                 Posted by Hobbes              

 Jesus also said......

 

John 14:15

                                            “If you love Me, you will keep My commandments."

     Of course,I do firmly believe that keeping His commandments comes as a result of the indwelling of His Holy Spirit because we are Saved by the Grace of God through our Faith in Christ Jesus..........but,by Jesus own Words ,without fully committing yourself can you truly "follow Him?''Do you truly love Him if you have reservations & are not willing to forsake self?

      I do not know what church you went to or who told you anything about "promises" but it I think when Jesus invited us to 'Follow Him",we must be committed to that and I would never want to discourage anyone from committing themselves to Jesus......in complete surrender. And if there is anyone  that wants Salvation & they would like to make a promise to Jesus,then by all means, do that & He will help you to keep that promise.by the Power of the Holy Spirit ...............God bless you,perhaps I can come back later but this is the only thing I really felt compelled to reply to

                                                                                                                                                      With love,Kwik

 

Dear Kwik,

 

There is a difference between a parent asking their children to do something they told them to do and then making them make a promise to do it. 

 

John 2:²³ Now when he was in Jerusalem at the passover, in the feast day, many believed in his name, when they saw the miracles which he did. ²⁴ But Jesus did not commit himself unto them, because he knew all men, ²⁵ And needed not that any should testify of man: for he knew what was in man.

 

Mark 14:38Watch ye and pray, lest ye enter into temptation. The spirit truly is ready, but the flesh is weak.

 

Prayer is submiiting to God what we cannot do in the flesh and therefore our reliance can only be on Jesus Christ to live as His.

 

Jesus did not lead any disciple to make a promise to do the commandments because He does not have confidence in us to keep them.  Since our confidence is in Him to help us live as His, we are to live by faith in the Son of God in keeping His commandments.  That is why it is written that the just shall live by faith.  Living the christian life is a trust issue just as much as our salvation is.  We trust in Jesus Christ that we are saved because He is our Saviour and thus we are to trust Jesus Christ as our Good Shepherd because we cannot live the christian life nor keep His commandments without His power in us at all.  So by the grace of God by faith in Jesus Christ we are saved, and by the grace of God by faith in Jesus Christ we shall keep the commandments.  All praises to Him.