OneLight Posted September 20, 2014 Group: Royal Member Followers: 22 Topic Count: 1,294 Topics Per Day: 0.21 Content Count: 31,762 Content Per Day: 5.24 Reputation: 9,760 Days Won: 115 Joined: 09/14/2007 Status: Offline Share Posted September 20, 2014 Yes, we will be alive in Christ, but we are not the intercessor of prayers ... Jesus is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Defending the Name Posted September 21, 2014 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 0 Topics Per Day: 0 Content Count: 167 Content Per Day: 0.05 Reputation: 34 Days Won: 0 Joined: 09/01/2014 Status: Offline Share Posted September 21, 2014 Yes, we will be alive in Christ, but we are not the intercessor of prayers ... Jesus is. Amen yes, yes and yes in CHRIST Jesus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoldenEagle Posted September 24, 2014 Group: Royal Member Followers: 4 Topic Count: 764 Topics Per Day: 0.18 Content Count: 7,626 Content Per Day: 1.81 Reputation: 1,559 Days Won: 44 Joined: 10/03/2012 Status: Offline Share Posted September 24, 2014 The issue of whether or not saint at dead or not boils down to this. Do you believe once you are dead it's over?? That seems to be the opinion here. Moses and Elijah apaered to Jesus in the garden and one of the apostles asked if he should make up 3 tents. Why do dead people need tents? As for hearing prayers offered up to heaven: 8And when he had taken the scroll, the four living creatures and the twenty-four elders fell down before the Lamb, each holding a harp, and with golden bowls full of incense, which are the prayers of the saints; Our prayers are heard and offered up to Jesus. Yes salvation only comes from Jesus, and it is wrong to worship saints. But to ask intercession is not wrong. And one closing point. We will be more alive in heaven than we can ever be here on earth. Yes, we will be alive in Christ, but we are not the intercessor of prayers ... Jesus is. 1 Timothy 2:5 5 For there is one God, and there is one mediator between God and men, the man[a] Christ Jesus, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
other one Posted September 24, 2014 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 29 Topic Count: 596 Topics Per Day: 0.08 Content Count: 56,043 Content Per Day: 7.56 Reputation: 27,788 Days Won: 271 Joined: 12/29/2003 Status: Offline Share Posted September 24, 2014 The issue of whether or not saint at dead or not boils down to this. Do you believe once you are dead it's over?? That seems to be the opinion here. Moses and Elijah apaered to Jesus in the garden and one of the apostles asked if he should make up 3 tents. Why do dead people need tents? As for hearing prayers offered up to heaven: 8And when he had taken the scroll, the four living creatures and the twenty-four elders fell down before the Lamb, each holding a harp, and with golden bowls full of incense, which are the prayers of the saints; Our prayers are heard and offered up to Jesus. Yes salvation only comes from Jesus, and it is wrong to worship saints. But to ask intercession is not wrong. And one closing point. We will be more alive in heaven than we can ever be here on earth. Why would you ask intercession when it is as easy or easier to go directly to Jesus.......... If three of us are standing here and you want or need something of me, I would be greatly offended if you asked the other person to speak to me about it.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Judas Machabeus Posted September 24, 2014 Share Posted September 24, 2014 The issue of whether or not saint at dead or not boils down to this. Do you believe once you are dead it's over?? That seems to be the opinion here. Moses and Elijah apaered to Jesus in the garden and one of the apostles asked if he should make up 3 tents. Why do dead people need tents? As for hearing prayers offered up to heaven: 8And when he had taken the scroll, the four living creatures and the twenty-four elders fell down before the Lamb, each holding a harp, and with golden bowls full of incense, which are the prayers of the saints; Our prayers are heard and offered up to Jesus. Yes salvation only comes from Jesus, and it is wrong to worship saints. But to ask intercession is not wrong. And one closing point. We will be more alive in heaven than we can ever be here on earth. Why would you ask intercession when it is as easy or easier to go directly to Jesus.......... If three of us are standing here and you want or need something of me, I would be greatly offended if you asked the other person to speak to me about it.... Why do you ask other to pray for you, why can't you just go straight to Jesus?? Why do you ask others to mediate for you by praying for you?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
other one Posted September 24, 2014 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 29 Topic Count: 596 Topics Per Day: 0.08 Content Count: 56,043 Content Per Day: 7.56 Reputation: 27,788 Days Won: 271 Joined: 12/29/2003 Status: Offline Share Posted September 24, 2014 The issue of whether or not saint at dead or not boils down to this. Do you believe once you are dead it's over?? That seems to be the opinion here. Moses and Elijah apaered to Jesus in the garden and one of the apostles asked if he should make up 3 tents. Why do dead people need tents? As for hearing prayers offered up to heaven: 8And when he had taken the scroll, the four living creatures and the twenty-four elders fell down before the Lamb, each holding a harp, and with golden bowls full of incense, which are the prayers of the saints; Our prayers are heard and offered up to Jesus. Yes salvation only comes from Jesus, and it is wrong to worship saints. But to ask intercession is not wrong. And one closing point. We will be more alive in heaven than we can ever be here on earth. Why would you ask intercession when it is as easy or easier to go directly to Jesus.......... If three of us are standing here and you want or need something of me, I would be greatly offended if you asked the other person to speak to me about it.... Why do you ask other to pray for you, why can't you just go straight to Jesus?? Why do you ask others to mediate for you by praying for you?? I don't ask others to mediate for me at all. I do sometimes ask for prayer for we are told to pray for each other..... but I don't see anywhere in scripture either NT or OT that tells me to ask dead people to pray for me or anyone else. As a matter of further thought I don't think I have read in scripture anywhere that people spoke to dead people or spirits in any positive way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Judas Machabeus Posted September 24, 2014 Share Posted September 24, 2014 Moses and Elijah appeared to Jesus in the garden. They were both "dead". Peter could see and hear them. Mat 17:3-4 3And behold, there appeared to them Moses and Eli'jah, talking with him. 4And Peter said to Jesus, "Lord, it is well that we are here; if you wish, I will make three booths here, one for you and one for Moses and one for Eli'jah." * When we die our bodies die not our souls!! Physically we are dead but become more alive in spirit than we could ever be on earth. If you are going to twist asking for the saints to pray for you as mediation that you are guilty of the same thing when you ask others to pray for you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
other one Posted September 24, 2014 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 29 Topic Count: 596 Topics Per Day: 0.08 Content Count: 56,043 Content Per Day: 7.56 Reputation: 27,788 Days Won: 271 Joined: 12/29/2003 Status: Offline Share Posted September 24, 2014 Moses and Elijah appeared to Jesus in the garden. They were both "dead". Peter could see and hear them. Mat 17:3-4 3And behold, there appeared to them Moses and Eli'jah, talking with him. 4And Peter said to Jesus, "Lord, it is well that we are here; if you wish, I will make three booths here, one for you and one for Moses and one for Eli'jah." * When we die our bodies die not our souls!! Physically we are dead but become more alive in spirit than we could ever be on earth. If you are going to twist asking for the saints to pray for you as mediation that you are guilty of the same thing when you ask others to pray for you. Like I said, the Bible tells us to pray for one another, but I don't see anywhere it tells in any positive way for me to converse with anyone deceased for any reason. If you can show me where any of the people in the New Testament asked dead people to do anything, I'll ponder on changing my mind. Can you show me anywhere anyone asked Mary (after her death) to speak in their behalf I would appreciate it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Judas Machabeus Posted September 24, 2014 Share Posted September 24, 2014 I agree that we are encouraged to pray for one another and it even says that the prayers of the righteous man are better. Can't remember the exact quote right off the top of my head. Who are more righteous than those in heaven?? I would say non. So now the question is can those in heaven pray? I would say yes that prayer doesn't end once you are in heaven. So that leads us to can the righteous in heaven hear our prayer? I say yes they can. In Johns revelation he sees a cherubim offering a bowl of incense to the alter of the Lord. And he says that the bowl of incense is the prayers of the saints. Saints being the believers on earth. John doesn't see Jesus with the prayers... He sees a cherubim with them and is offering them to The Lord. This is where Christ becomes the sole mediator, once the prayers are gathered and offered to him he than meditates. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
other one Posted September 24, 2014 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 29 Topic Count: 596 Topics Per Day: 0.08 Content Count: 56,043 Content Per Day: 7.56 Reputation: 27,788 Days Won: 271 Joined: 12/29/2003 Status: Offline Share Posted September 24, 2014 I agree that we are encouraged to pray for one another and it even says that the prayers of the righteous man are better. Can't remember the exact quote right off the top of my head. Who are more righteous than those in heaven?? I would say non. So now the question is can those in heaven pray? I would say yes that prayer doesn't end once you are in heaven. So that leads us to can the righteous in heaven hear our prayer? I say yes they can. In Johns revelation he sees a cherubim offering a bowl of incense to the alter of the Lord. And he says that the bowl of incense is the prayers of the saints. Saints being the believers on earth. John doesn't see Jesus with the prayers... He sees a cherubim with them and is offering them to The Lord. This is where Christ becomes the sole mediator, once the prayers are gathered and offered to him he than meditates. And I would say that the Cherubim were only the holders of the prayers, that the Holy Spirit delivered them to the Cherubim to be given to Jesus. There is also a really big difference in Cherubim and Uncle Ralph or even Mary.. Being a person who has conversed with the spirit world, I'm just not very likely to want to interface with anything other than the Holy Spirit Himself..... you can't trust the others. I would certainly never ask someone to ask Mary for anything in my behalf. Praying to saints in my personal opinion is nothing more than one way necromancy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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