Is the Rapture Biblical?

[rollinTHUNDER]

Look at Scripture;

 

2 Thes 2...   Concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our being gathered to him, we ask you, brothers, not to become easily unsettled or alarmed by some prophecy, report or letter supposed to have come from us, saying that the "day of the Lord" has already come.

 

Why were those Thessalonians  concerned that they had missed the "day of the Lord".  They new it was not the Second Coming they had missed, for all would have seen Christ at the Second Coming.  So what did they think they had missed?  It had to be the Rapture that they thought they had missed.  And when was this?  Before 51 A.D.  This is not an invention of Darby or anyone during his time.  This is a Pre-Trib position.

 

In Christ

Montana Marv

Pre-trib position?  I don't think so.  Let's read a little more of this passage.

2 Thessalonians 2:1-4

Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him, 2 That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand. 3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition; 4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.

 

You are correct in saying the Thessalonians thought they missed the rapture, but Paul clearly tells them that that day will not come until after a falling away and the abomination of desolation.  In other words, we will most definitely see the son of perdition or man of lawlessness claim to be God first.  If anything, this passage disproves the pre-trib rapture.  And Christ, Himself, warned not to go after false Christ' and false prophets before the sign of the Son of man appears, which is the gathering we see in verse 31 below.

 

Matthew 24:15-31

When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand:)

16 Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains: 17 Let him which is on the housetop not come down to take any thing out of his house: 18 Neither let him which is in the field return back to take his clothes. 19 And woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days! 20 But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day: 21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be. 22 And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened. 23 Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there; believe it not. 24 For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect. 25 Behold, I have told you before. 26 Wherefore if they shall say unto you, Behold, he is in the desert; go not forth: behold, he is in the secret chambers; believe it not. 27 For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be. 28 For wheresoever the carcase is, there will the eagles be gathered together.

29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken: 30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. 31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

 

 

 

Cheers

[Guest Fraudfinder]

 

 

The simple answer plainly is No, lol , cause no matter if one makes it a long answer or a short one, one still will end up with those two letter words!

 

I agree with you brother...... 

 

 

Rapture Doctrine invented by John Darby in 1830 AD - prior to this no one and I mean NO ONE ever spoke of a pre-tribulation. This is one area from many that Christians LOVE to argue about.

 

Fraudfinder

 

Really, you do not know much about the Rapture.

 

Look at Scripture;

 

2 Thes 2...   Concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our being gathered to him, we ask you, brothers, not to become easily unsettled or alarmed by some prophecy, report or letter supposed to have come from us, saying that the "day of the Lord" has already come.

 

Why were those Thessalonians  concerned that they had missed the "day of the Lord".  They new it was not the Second Coming they had missed, for all would have seen Christ at the Second Coming.  So what did they think they had missed?  It had to be the Rapture that they thought they had missed.  And when was this?  Before 51 A.D.  This is not an invention of Darby or anyone during his time.  This is a Pre-Trib position.

 

In Christ

Montana Marv

 

 

Hello,

 

Your belief in pre-tribulation is based upon one scripture from the Bible?

 

My brother if you can the voice of God, (which I am sure you can) pray to him and ask him to reveal to you the truth about pre-tribulation. I have heard many Christians argue this point until someone becomes insulted or angry over this issue and I think it is because no one wants to go through tribulation. I don't either but we all will, it will be a scary time for us all but if we stick together and concentrate on God's promises he has made to his children you come out of this end times without a scratch!

 

Hosea 4:6 - my people are destroyed from lack of knowledge. "Because you have rejected knowledge, I also reject you as my priests; because you have ignored the law of your God, I also will ignore your children.

 

Your Brother in Christ

 

[Giantbear7]

I know for certain many are going to get raptured before the end of the world.

How will the taking away happen, some might ask?

Simple look back at history and you will find the graves of the many departed. As far as the resurrection of the dead is concerned, since the living cannot hinder those who have already departed, then it is clear the departed have literally been taken away, haven't they?

Poeple around the world are literally being taken away as I write.

One is TAKEN and the other left, therefore if you are here and breathing, then your ARE here, otherwise YOUR raptured.

[OldSchool2]

1 Thessalonians 4:13-18

 

But I do not want you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning those who have fallen asleep, lest you sorrow as others who have no hope. For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so God will bring with Him those who sleep in Jesus.

For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord will by no means precede those who are asleep. For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first. Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And thus we shall always be with the Lord. Therefore comfort one another with these words.

I believe in being caught up to be with the Lord, after my brothers and sisters, who had died before that time, go to be with the Lord first.

 

At Christ's Second Coming, or does He have to return twice for the above to be fulfilled?

That's the question under debate.

[BeauJangles]

Oy Vey! This topic is never gonna end, will it? Oh well... Shalom.

[OneLight]

1 Thessalonians 4:13-18

 

But I do not want you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning those who have fallen asleep, lest you sorrow as others who have no hope. For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so God will bring with Him those who sleep in Jesus.

For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord will by no means precede those who are asleep. For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first. Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And thus we shall always be with the Lord. Therefore comfort one another with these words.

I believe in being caught up to be with the Lord, after my brothers and sisters, who had died before that time, go to be with the Lord first.

 

At Christ's Second Coming, or does He have to return twice for the above to be fulfilled?

That's the question under debate.

I thought the question under debate was if the rapture is true, not when the rapture will occur. Since you do ask, I will say:

1 Corinthians 15:51-53

Behold, I tell you a mystery: We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed— in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.

Scripture tells us "at the last trumpet, the dead will be raised incorruptible, and we will be changed." If anyone wants to put a timeline on when this will happen, let them try. Over the years I have been proven wrong though my own studies too many times, so I put away my prophetic statements and rely on scripture, waiting to see how it all unfolds while watching.

If your question is if I believe in a secret rapture, no, I do not. I believe the "thief in the night" means that we will not know when this will happen, not that it is in secret.

As for His return, it only happens once, not twice, three times or a million ... only once.

[OneLight]

Oy Vey! This topic is never gonna end, will it? Oh well... Shalom.

LOL ... no, this debate will go on until the prophecy is fulfilled. I often wonder if there will be a place where people sit around discussing how off they were in their understanding after they are with Him, realizing how futile our arguments were. If people would just discuss and not debate, more truth may open up, placing the focus on scripture and off beliefs.

[other one]

Oy Vey! This topic is never gonna end, will it? Oh well... Shalom.

nope, it's been going on for a couple of thousand years now.  I guess we'll find out when they start the mark of the beast thing.....    assuming we can all agree what that is and when it starts.

[Montana Marv]

 

 

 

The simple answer plainly is No, lol , cause no matter if one makes it a long answer or a short one, one still will end up with those two letter words!

 

I agree with you brother...... 

 

 

Rapture Doctrine invented by John Darby in 1830 AD - prior to this no one and I mean NO ONE ever spoke of a pre-tribulation. This is one area from many that Christians LOVE to argue about.

 

Fraudfinder

 

Really, you do not know much about the Rapture.

 

Look at Scripture;

 

2 Thes 2...   Concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our being gathered to him, we ask you, brothers, not to become easily unsettled or alarmed by some prophecy, report or letter supposed to have come from us, saying that the "day of the Lord" has already come.

 

Why were those Thessalonians  concerned that they had missed the "day of the Lord".  They new it was not the Second Coming they had missed, for all would have seen Christ at the Second Coming.  So what did they think they had missed?  It had to be the Rapture that they thought they had missed.  And when was this?  Before 51 A.D.  This is not an invention of Darby or anyone during his time.  This is a Pre-Trib position.

 

In Christ

Montana Marv

 

 

Hello,

 

Your belief in pre-tribulation is based upon one scripture from the Bible?

 

My brother if you can the voice of God, (which I am sure you can) pray to him and ask him to reveal to you the truth about pre-tribulation. I have heard many Christians argue this point until someone becomes insulted or angry over this issue and I think it is because no one wants to go through tribulation. I don't either but we all will, it will be a scary time for us all but if we stick together and concentrate on God's promises he has made to his children you come out of this end times without a scratch!

 

Hosea 4:6 - my people are destroyed from lack of knowledge. "Because you have rejected knowledge, I also reject you as my priests; because you have ignored the law of your God, I also will ignore your children.

 

Your Brother in Christ

 

 

FF

 

Is Hosea 4:6 referring to yourself or me.  Just wondering.  For if you say that I lack knowledge because I ignored the law of God (you have then violated a TOS agreement).

 

BTW, I pointed out that some thought they had missed something (the Rapture).  Paul said someone had to be taken out of the way before the lawless one can be revealed.  (another verse we use).  1 Thes 4 does not mention Christ touching the earth, only that we meet Him somewhere in the air (sky).  And then 18- Therefore encourage each other with these words.  We are under Satan's wrath at this time.  Wait until this world is under God's Wrath.  Happy Trails if this is what you think you must go through to endure.

 

Yet I will be in my Fathers House (as Christ promised, I will have received my crown of glory) when all this is coming down.

 

In Christ

Montana Marv

[OldSchool2]

 

 

1 Thessalonians 4:13-18

 

But I do not want you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning those who have fallen asleep, lest you sorrow as others who have no hope. For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so God will bring with Him those who sleep in Jesus.

For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord will by no means precede those who are asleep. For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first. Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And thus we shall always be with the Lord. Therefore comfort one another with these words.

I believe in being caught up to be with the Lord, after my brothers and sisters, who had died before that time, go to be with the Lord first.

 

 

At Christ's Second Coming, or does He have to return twice for the above to be fulfilled?

That's the question under debate.

 

I thought the question under debate was if the rapture is true, not when the rapture will occur. Since you do ask, I will say:

1 Corinthians 15:51-53

Behold, I tell you a mystery: We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed— in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.

Scripture tells us "at the last trumpet, the dead will be raised incorruptible, and we will be changed." If anyone wants to put a timeline on when this will happen, let them try. Over the years I have been proven wrong though my own studies too many times, so I put away my prophetic statements and rely on scripture, waiting to see how it all unfolds while watching.

If your question is if I believe in a secret rapture, no, I do not. I believe the "thief in the night" means that we will not know when this will happen, not that it is in secret.

As for His return, it only happens once, not twice, three times or a million ... only once.

 

 

Since there's obviously only one second coming -- at which time the events described in what some have called "the rapture" will occur -- then it should all be one and the same event, which leaves the "Left Behind" hype in the dustbin of theology.