Bare minimum requirements to be Christian

[Guest Judas Machabeus]

If all that was needed for salvation was completed on the cross by Jesus when He said, "It is Finished! ". Why does that mean we need to do anything to add to the work that Jesus did on the cross? Either it is done once for all or we need to do something to work out our salvation.

So if it was finished with his death on the cross than what was the point of the resurrection?? Because it was finished.

When Jesus said it is finished, he was talking about the Passover and his sacrifice. His resurrection and ascension were also needed before salvation was completed.

[Guest Judas Machabeus]

Okay, this is good. I thought that this was a given and perhaps I was wrong.

Can someone reject baptism and still be Christian??

I would say no. Regardless of what you believe baptism is/does.

Matt 28:19

19Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit,

This verse seems to be saying that you are made a disciple by being baptism. So without baptism you are not a disciple of Christ.

Curious what other think on the subject.

baptism does not save a person........ but a saved person will be baptized if he/she has the chance. If you reject baptism, you are not following the commands of Jesus and have not really made Jesus one's Lord. I don't see how someone saved could reject Jesus' command so I would also question their position as to salvation.

That's what I was thinking.

[blue gem]

Luke 23 v 39

Then one of the criminals who were hanged blasphemed Him saying

"If You are the Christ, save Yourself and us".

But the other answering rebuked him saying "Do you not even fear God seeing you are under the same condemnation? And we

Indeed justly, for we receive the reward of our deeds, but this Man has done nothing wrong". Then he said to Jesus

"Lord remember me when You come into Your kingdom."

Jesus said to him, "Assuredly, I say to you, today you will be with me in paradise."

You can't get much more minimum than the above!

[gdemoss]

The bare minimum for being a Christian is believing God has named and given a Christ as the one who is the highest of all and subsequently expanding ones skill and understanding in Christ.

[Guest Judas Machabeus]

Luke 23 v 39

Then one of the criminals who were hanged blasphemed Him saying

"If You are the Christ, save Yourself and us".

But the other answering rebuked him saying "Do you not even fear God seeing you are under the same condemnation? And we

Indeed justly, for we receive the reward of our deeds, but this Man has done nothing wrong". Then he said to Jesus

"Lord remember me when You come into Your kingdom."

Jesus said to him, "Assuredly, I say to you, today you will be with me in paradise."

You can't get much more minimum than the above!

Are you saying that because someone nailed to a cross was saved in the last hours of his life, we can ignore everything else in the bible that was said to those not nailed to a cross?? So we can ignore the sermon on the mount, ignore the Ten Commandments Because the theif on the cross was saved without having to live according the teachings of Jesus, didn't follow the Ten Commandments.

That's not a theology I live by. The theif on the cross teaches us that it's never too late to come to Christ.

[blue gem]

Ephesians 2 v 8

Ephesians 2:8-10 AMP

[8] For it is by free grace (God's unmerited favor) that you are saved (delivered from judgment and made partakers of Christ's salvation) through your faith. And this salvation is not of yourselves of your own doing, it came not through your own striving, but it is the gift of God; [9] Not because of works not the fulfillment of the Law's demands, lest any man should boast. It is not the result of what anyone can possibly do, so no one can pride himself in it or take glory to himself. [10] For we are God's own handiwork (His workmanship), recreated in Christ Jesus, born anew that we may do those good works which God predestined (planned beforehand) for us taking paths which He prepared ahead of time, that we should walk in them living the good life which He prearranged and made ready for us to live.

Isaiah 64:6 AMP

[6] For we have all become like one who is unclean ceremonially, like a leper, and all our righteousness (our best deeds of rightness and justice) is like filthy rags or a polluted garment; we all fade like a leaf, and our iniquities, like the wind, take us away far from God's favor, hurrying us toward destruction.

The question was - what is the bare minimum - the verses about the thief on the cross demonstrate that.

He recognised he was guilty and had done wrong.

He knew Jesus had done nothing wrong

He knew Jesus was going to his kingdom and therefore that he was a king not just a mere man. The sign above the cross said king of the Jews to mock Jesus but the criminal on the cross knew it was the truth.

He "prayed" and while he might not have said a traditional sinners prayer, the same intent and heart was there.

Jesus forgive him and gave him assurances of salvation.

As for the rest of us. If we truly are born again, then we will have a desire to serve God and walk out our faith. Not because our actions save us, but because he first loved us and gave everything for us. That's not to say we won't get it wrong at times or fall into temptation. But we have a witness the Holy Spirit who niggles us when we do something wrong and we should always keep short accounts with God when we do something wrong, Not that even keeping short accounts will save us, christ has already achieved the victory for us on the cross.

If however a person lives and does what they please and uses the saving grace of Christ to excuse this and do whatever they want, then maybe they were not really born again and maybe their heart was not truely repentant. But it is not for us to say who is saved and who is not. Only God truly knows a persons heart.

I suspect there will be a lot of surprises in the next life. People we thought were saved might not be there and people who we were

certain could not possibly be saved, may well be with Jesus in paradise.

But praise God we are not called to be the judge of all mankind.

A question for you, what do think happened to people before the 10 commandments were given?

They were given as a bare minimum to set out the standards expected by God due to the sin of men.

But prior to the 10 commandments what happened? Do you think people were saved by grace or by obeying a set of commandments not yet given out. Interesting questions and I'm sure it will trigger even more debate. But it's good to dig deep and consider these things so thanks for the questions and the thread.

Edited December 25, 2014 by blue gem

[Alejandro84]

The bare minimum is to know that the words that Christ spoke in concerning salvation where spiritual not literal. He is the bread and water that fulfills the starvation of a depraved soul, by believing that he came to fulfill all righteousness and redeem us back to God by his sacrifice offered once alone.

 

To believe that he spoke literally in concerning the eating of his flesh and drinking of his blood as an ongoing sacrament needed to be carried out to save ones soul is the direct opposite of the gospel of Christ.

 

Salvation is in the work of God, not in the merit and performance of man.

[blue gem]

On the question of water baptism. This is not necessary to be saved, but it is an outward testimony both to God and man.

I also think that getting baptised is a very humbling experience, many people refuse to go through water baptism due to fear of what others will think, fear of others finding out they are christians, fear that they will look silly etc. fear of nailing their colours to the mast etc.

For me it was fear of water, I couldn't swim at the time and was terrified of drowning but it kept niggling at me and I was convicted in my spirit that I just had to do it.

So I went and and got dunked and had my water baptism (after practicing a few times myself in the bath). All I can say is that it was an amazing experience afterwards, I knew it was the right thing to do and I knew that I had pleased God.

For people who refuse to go through a water baptism all I can say it that they are missing out on something very special. So prayer about it and take your fears to God.

[Littlelambseativy]

So, when Jesus said it is finished He did not mean that our redemption was won at that point? Yes He descended to the dead and showed Himself to the ones in Sheol and lead Paradise's saints to Heaven and sat at the Father's right hand but the work of attonenment was completed on the cross when He said "It is finished". That stands no matter what interpretation anyone places on what happened after. Accepting His sacrifice for our sin is all we need to do. Turn from our worldly ways and live a life pleasing to Him is what He asks.

[S.T. Ranger]

When are the bare minimum beliefs in order to call yourself a Christian??

The context behind the question is, Mormons consider themselves Christian. Yet deny the Trinity.

I look at it like this: we can call ourselves whatever we want but what we designate ourselves as, in many cases, is not always the reality. When we look at the varying denominations we can see that each one has doctrinal distinctives which set that group apart from others, to where one states "I am a Baptist, I am a Methodist, I am a Catholic," et cetera. This same division is addressed by Paul in 1 Corinthians 1, in which sectarian division is rebuked by Paul who simply makes the case..."Is Christ divided? was Paul crucified for you? or were ye baptized in the name of Paul?"

That's the bottom line: trusting Christ, rather than a system of theology of doctrinal distinctions.

If we went through many of the fellowships we have today, and took the Statement of Faith of each, and the distinctives taught by those groups, I would, if I were a betting fellow, lay money that at the very least...80% of each of the members of those fellowships would fail the test. What I mean by that is that most people that attend a fellowship probably are not aware, beyond what they have heard from the pulpit or Sunday School, what their fellowship/church/denomination even teaches. Some people, if they were aware, would likely find somewhere else to worship.

When it comes to groups like Mormons or Jehovah's Witnesses, I think it would be foolish to assume that no-one involved in those groups could possibly be saved, because when we look at the doctrine of some people who attend what we might consider more orthodox Christian groups, and see the confusion that translates from pulpit and Sunday School lessons...we have to account that there may be some people who do not know enough about their fellowship's doctrine to be either saved or damned.

Salvation is never a matter of doctrinal flawlessness, and in fact is not really a matter of doctrine period. Most people, when they turn to Christ, do so for one reason: they have heard the Gospel combined with the Ministry of the Comforter, Who enlightens the natural mind that man might understand, believe, repent, and turn to the Savior. And there are likely many Mormons who are no different than the Charismatic that has not embraced ecstatic speech, the Catholic that has not embraced infant baptism, the Calvinist that has not embraced TULIP, and the Baptist that has not embraced numerous buffets.

Just kidding about that TULIP thing.

Most groups have a set Doctrine, but, that does not mean that those who sit under that teaching understand it the way it is taught, nor does it mean every Preacher, Pastor, Minister, what have you...teaches it the same way or identical to the written statement or declaration of faith. So we should be careful in our dealings with those of other beliefs, and very careful not to condemn followers of a particular faith or group, though I do think we have a responsibility in love and truth to address the doctrine itself. If we think that it is necessary that one embrace anything outside of faith in Christ for salvation, then we are ourselves adding to the Gospel of Jesus Christ. And how one conducts themselves in their daily conduct and in particular in efforts of knowing God better is a process within the framework of growth that belongs in and under God's control. If we show mercy to those that we feel are in error, and instead of condemning them seek to help them understand better, the likely outcome is that we ourselves will learn and grow in the process. I myself owe a debt of gratitude to a number of people openly confessing faiths and non-faiths (atheists), because as I have talked with them I have come to better understand (or at least like I think I have) how people can end up professing certain beliefs that I may have originally considered outlandish, ignorant, or downright heretical. Doesn't mean I don't try to speak to them about what I feel is error, it just means I can look back at the beliefs I entertained when I was first saved and see how some of what I thought was true was ignorant, outlandish, and downright heretical, lol.

The fact is that the Gospel is at times going to offend those that do not understand the Gospel, but if we are inclined to follow God's example and seek to minister in mercy, rather than judgment, then we will also keep in mind we will never minister to those we offend based on our own judgments, rather than the judgments of God presented in His Word.

So long story short, I believe there are Mormons who are saved, and in large part because they don't know or understand enough about the differences Mormon doctrine presents with a Biblical view. There are a number of groups that embrace "new revelation" and feel it is inspired and authoritative, yet when the rubber meets the road, I think there are among them those that are trusting in Christ because God has enlightened them, not the group, which never had that power to begin with, regardless of what group it is.

There is a story about a man that specialized in recognizing counterfeit money, and he was asked, "I guess you spend a lot of time study fake currency, right?" the man replied, "No, I spend a lot of time studying the real thing!"

The same is true in Theology, if we keep our focus on the Books of the Bible rather than books about the Bible, when something comes up which is counterfeit, because we are familiar with the genuine, we will be better able to recognize and thus deal with what is counterfeit. Could we convince ourselves that there are no Mormons who are like many that come to Christian Doctrinal Discussion forums to minister and be ministered to? Who don't study the Bible itself? I have to think that there are, and have talked with some on forums. It is when they promote the distinctives that debate ensues, and just like I would debate with a Catholic, Baptist, or Calvinist over issues we disagree in, so too I will debate with a Mormon or Jehovah's Witness. And it isn't much different than debating with someone you actually fellowship with regularly in a local fellowship (that happens, and may be why not many people discuss doctrine when they fellowship, lol), where you would not pass judgment on someone because they disagree with you. When it comes to the plurality they teach concerning God and gods, this is serious error, but, I would suggest that there are Christians who view Trinitarians such as myself as a member of a cult because I embrace the Deity of Christ. Does their view determine whether I am saved or not? Not at all. And if I were a Christian that did not embrace the Deity of Christ, would that negate a possibility of being saved? I don't think so, because again, usually when someone is saved...they start out pretty ignorant to begin with, So if doctrinal flawlessness were a requirement, no-one would stand a chance. And if being in error negated salvation...

...most would not stand a chance, if not all.

So best if we focus first on ourselves, and be available when the Lord has need of us to speak to someone. Our part in it is minimal, His part in it being the true aspect which leads to salvation. Apart from the Comforter's ministry, we can preach until we are blue in the face, and nothing will change, because we cannot either give or transfer the understanding that only the Holy Spirit can impart to either natural or even saved men or women.

God bless.