Who Populates the Millennial Kingdom?

[ARGOSY]

 

 

Hi Salty,

 

A lot of interesting material there. To me that shows the land for Israel but as for the New Jerusalem I believe all the details & measurement are symbolic. Also we disagree concerning Israel & the Body of Christ. I see them both grafted into Christ & not the Body of Christ into Israel as you said.

 

Blessings bro. Marilyn.

 

Hi Marilyn,

 

What do you think the measurements are symbolic of, and why do you think they are described so precisely if they are symbols?

 

Hi Argosy,

 

Thank you for being interested in how I see the New Jerusalem. First let me say that I see the description of the temple & surrounds in Ezekiel as literal & on the earth in the time of the Millennium. We see that there is a sea there (no sea in the NJ - Rev. 21: 1) & the Prince has his sons. (Ez. 47: 8,  46: 16)

 

Now for the New Jerusalem. We know that it is God who is the `architect & builder` (Heb. 11: 10). It is God who builds people together into a community of the faith. We tend to look for the `bricks & mortar,` but God is more interested in making `sons.` And the greatest of these is His precious Son, the Lord Jesus Christ. We know that scripture has Christ as its focus & that the book of Revelation is the unveiling of Christ as He is known in the heavenly, thus when we read of the New Jerusalem it is mainly Christ we are looking at & the sons that are in that realm.

 

 

 

I would like to do the book of revelation one day on the forum from the perspective on the unveiling of Christ, but for now I`ll just give you a few symbols that I see from Rev. 21 & 22.

 

 

The City - the community of faith people, covenanted by God. (measure by a golden reed , ` faith is more precious than gold)

The city is a cube - this is the shape of the Holy of Holies where God dwelt & spoke to His people.

12,000 furlongs - 12 tribes of Israel. (12 x 1,000, (10 cubed - perfect number) `furlongs` measurement Gk. `stao,` fig. a covenant.

 

Christ is the covenant God made with His people Israel & it is through Him that God can dwell & speak with His people in the New Jerusalem.

 

12 foundations of the walls - Christ`s government, His Kingship & Priesthood.

12 Precious Stones - Christ`s divine Law. (The precious stones were on the High priest`s breastplate & each has a meaning in relation to Christ)

12 Names of 12 Apostles of the Lamb - delegated Kingship.

144 cubits - 144,000 bonded priests of God. `cubit` Heb. `ammah,` a bond,  & `emah,` a multiple of 10, eg. 1,000.

 

Jasper - the birthstone of the tribe of Naphtali - meaning Conqueror. It is blood-red, representing the sacrifice of the Lord.

 

It is only through Christ`s blood that the government of this city is made possible.

 

 

There is much more & obviously each detail needs scriptures & more explanations, but that will give you a quick idea of the wonderful depth there is to know more of our precious Lord & the work He has, is & will do.

 

Marilyn.

 

 

Hi Marilyn,  I thought you were referring to the Ezekiel measurements, sorry I got confused there, my bad.  Yes I agree with you that the Ezekiel temple is millenial , whereas the New Jerusalem is described in a post-millenial setting in Rev 21.

 

Interesting thoughts there about the Rev 21 measurements and I see no reason to disagree. The depth is fascinating 

[Salty]

 

Hi Salty,

 

I do believe that Ez. temple & layout is literal. It has the waters flowing to the sea, (Ez. 47: 8) & all the land promised to Israel. When we look at the New Jerusalem we see that in that time of the New Heavens & New Earth, there will be NO sea. (Rev. 21: 1)

 

And we obviously think differently regarding the Body of Christ & Israel.

 

Marilyn.

 

 

I recognize a similar flow in the latter Ezekiel chapters like is in the latter three chapters of Revelation. Revelation 20 well flows chronologically. But some of the events written in Rev.21 & 22 are not new heavens, and a new earth timing.

 

Per that one of the signs at the end of Revelation of the new heavens and a new earth timing is no further need of a temple there in Jerusalem. Thus the Ezekiel temple sanctuary called God's House there is specifically for the time of Christ's Millennial reign. Yet God's River and the tree of life are shown manifested there on earth in association with that temple of Ezekiel. Likewise with the Rev.22:14-15 verses we are shown that about that Millennial timing too.

 

Thus these present Scripture evidence beyond all doubt that Christ's coming thousand years reign with His elect is upon... this earth, and not up in the clouds.

[Retrobyter]

Shalom, Salty.

 

 

 

Hi Salty,

 

I do believe that Ez. temple & layout is literal. It has the waters flowing to the sea, (Ez. 47: 8) & all the land promised to Israel. When we look at the New Jerusalem we see that in that time of the New Heavens & New Earth, there will be NO sea. (Rev. 21: 1)

 

And we obviously think differently regarding the Body of Christ & Israel.

 

Marilyn.

 

 

I recognize a similar flow in the latter Ezekiel chapters like is in the latter three chapters of Revelation. Revelation 20 well flows chronologically. But some of the events written in Rev.21 & 22 are not new heavens, and a new earth timing.

 

Per that one of the signs at the end of Revelation of the new heavens and a new earth timing is no further need of a temple there in Jerusalem. Thus the Ezekiel temple sanctuary called God's House there is specifically for the time of Christ's Millennial reign. Yet God's River and the tree of life are shown manifested there on earth in association with that temple of Ezekiel. Likewise with the Rev.22:14-15 verses we are shown that about that Millennial timing too.

 

Thus these present Scripture evidence beyond all doubt that Christ's coming thousand years reign with His elect is upon... this earth, and not up in the clouds.

 

 

Actually, you’ve made a grave mistake by assuming that Ezekiel 47:12 is about the Tree of Life. The text says...

 

Ezekiel 47:12

12 And by the river upon the bank thereof, on this side and on that side, shall grow all trees for meat, whose leaf shall not fade, neither shall the fruit thereof be consumed: it shall bring forth new fruit according to his months, because their waters they issued out of the sanctuary: and the fruit thereof shall be for meat, and the leaf thereof for medicine.

KJV

 

Just because they have some similar phrases, there is nothing within this verse to prove that it is talking about the Tree of Life at all! To the contrary, it shows that the WATER carries similar qualities FROM GOD to these trees as will exist with the Tree of Life in Revelation 22.

 

Remember: GOD is the source of all life-giving power, not some tree or some river of water!

 

Look, one of the things that can be ascertained from the study of the Hebrew language is that “living water” is "MOVING water!” We would say “ENERGETIC water,” or more simply “RUNNING water,” today. That is why Yochanan (John) baptized in the Yarden River (the Jordan)! It is a river that flows all the time (although at certain times of the year, he probably stayed close to the shallows)!

 

For instance, consider this commandment:

 

Leviticus 15:13

13 And when he that hath an issue is cleansed of his issue; then he shall number to himself seven days for his cleansing, and wash his clothes, and bathe his flesh in running water, and shall be clean.

KJV

 

The phrase in Hebrew is "bamayim chayiym” and literally translates to “in living waters.” It’s the same phrase (minus the "ba-“ prefix meaning “in”) as here:

 

Jeremiah 17:13

13 O LORD, the hope of Israel, all that forsake thee shall be ashamed, and they that depart from me shall be written in the earth, because they have forsaken the LORD, the fountain of living waters.

KJV

 

So, it’s important that one recognizes that these two passages, even though they sound similar, are NOT equivalent!

 

Also, since the two scenes are NOT equivalent, neither are the time periods in which they are found. Yechezk’el (Ezekiel) was talking about the Millennial Jerusalem, but Revelation 21 and 22 are talking about the New Jerusalem of the New Earth, a time period that will exist BEYOND the time of the Millennium. Indeed, it is AFTER the Great White Throne Judgment, not BEFORE, as the Millennium will be.

 

However, you are correct, and it can be proved from other sources that Yeshua`s Kingdom will be RIGHT HERE ON THIS EARTH during the Millennium, just as it will be after the GWTJ in the New Earth.

[Salty]

 

Shalom, Salty.

 

 

 

Hi Salty,

 

I do believe that Ez. temple & layout is literal. It has the waters flowing to the sea, (Ez. 47: 8) & all the land promised to Israel. When we look at the New Jerusalem we see that in that time of the New Heavens & New Earth, there will be NO sea. (Rev. 21: 1)

 

And we obviously think differently regarding the Body of Christ & Israel.

 

Marilyn.

 

 

I recognize a similar flow in the latter Ezekiel chapters like is in the latter three chapters of Revelation. Revelation 20 well flows chronologically. But some of the events written in Rev.21 & 22 are not new heavens, and a new earth timing.

 

Per that one of the signs at the end of Revelation of the new heavens and a new earth timing is no further need of a temple there in Jerusalem. Thus the Ezekiel temple sanctuary called God's House there is specifically for the time of Christ's Millennial reign. Yet God's River and the tree of life are shown manifested there on earth in association with that temple of Ezekiel. Likewise with the Rev.22:14-15 verses we are shown that about that Millennial timing too.

 

Thus these present Scripture evidence beyond all doubt that Christ's coming thousand years reign with His elect is upon... this earth, and not up in the clouds.

 

 

Actually, you’ve made a grave mistake by assuming that Ezekiel 47:12 is about the Tree of Life. The text says...

 

Ezekiel 47:12

12 And by the river upon the bank thereof, on this side and on that side, shall grow all trees for meat, whose leaf shall not fade, neither shall the fruit thereof be consumed: it shall bring forth new fruit according to his months, because their waters they issued out of the sanctuary: and the fruit thereof shall be for meat, and the leaf thereof for medicine.

KJV

 

Just because they have some similar phrases, there is nothing within this verse to prove that it is talking about the Tree of Life at all! To the contrary, it shows that the WATER carries similar qualities FROM GOD to these trees as will exist with the Tree of Life in Revelation 22.

 

Remember: GOD is the source of all life-giving power, not some tree or some river of water!

 

Look, one of the things that can be ascertained from the study of the Hebrew language is that “living water” is "MOVING water!” We would say “ENERGETIC water,” or more simply “RUNNING water,” today. That is why Yochanan (John) baptized in the Yarden River (the Jordan)! It is a river that flows all the time (although at certain times of the year, he probably stayed close to the shallows)!

 

For instance, consider this commandment:

 

Leviticus 15:13

13 And when he that hath an issue is cleansed of his issue; then he shall number to himself seven days for his cleansing, and wash his clothes, and bathe his flesh in running water, and shall be clean.

KJV

 

The phrase in Hebrew is "bamayim chayiym” and literally translates to “in living waters.” It’s the same phrase (minus the "ba-“ prefix meaning “in”) as here:

 

Jeremiah 17:13

13 O LORD, the hope of Israel, all that forsake thee shall be ashamed, and they that depart from me shall be written in the earth, because they have forsaken the LORD, the fountain of living waters.

KJV

 

So, it’s important that one recognizes that these two passages, even though they sound similar, are NOT equivalent!

 

Also, since the two scenes are NOT equivalent, neither are the time periods in which they are found. Yechezk’el (Ezekiel) was talking about the Millennial Jerusalem, but Revelation 21 and 22 are talking about the New Jerusalem of the New Earth, a time period that will exist BEYOND the time of the Millennium. Indeed, it is AFTER the Great White Throne Judgment, not BEFORE, as the Millennium will be.

 

However, you are correct, and it can be proved from other sources that Yeshua`s Kingdom will be RIGHT HERE ON THIS EARTH during the Millennium, just as it will be after the GWTJ in the New Earth.

 

 

I disagree, the many trees on either side of the River in Ezekiel 47 is the same tree of life and River of waters of life mentioned in Revelation 22. It's Revelation 21 that is especially about events of the new heavens and a new earth. But Rev.22 has some things in it regarding only the time of Christ's Millennial reign.

 

Rev.22

² In the midst of the street of it, and on either side of the river, was there the tree of life, which bare twelve manner of fruits, and yielded her fruit every month: and the leaves of the tree were for the healing of the nations.

 

Ezekiel 47

¹² And by the river upon the bank thereof, on this side and on that side, shall grow all trees for meat, whose leaf shall not fade, neither shall the fruit thereof be consumed: it shall bring forth new fruit according to his months, because their waters they issued out of the sanctuary: and the fruit thereof shall be for meat, and the leaf thereof for medicine.

 

Rev.22

¹⁴ Blessed are they that do His commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.

¹⁵ For without are dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and idolaters, and whosoever loveth and maketh a lie.

 

There's the holy city, and outside its gates are the wicked, meaning that is Millennial timing right there. God's River and the tree of life will have its beginning on earth again at Christ's Millennial reign. Symbolic philosophy loosely based on The Bible will not prevent that from happenning.

[Retrobyter]

Shalom, Salty.

 

 

 

Shalom, Salty.

 

 

 

Hi Salty,

 

I do believe that Ez. temple & layout is literal. It has the waters flowing to the sea, (Ez. 47: 8) & all the land promised to Israel. When we look at the New Jerusalem we see that in that time of the New Heavens & New Earth, there will be NO sea. (Rev. 21: 1)

 

And we obviously think differently regarding the Body of Christ & Israel.

 

Marilyn.

 

 

I recognize a similar flow in the latter Ezekiel chapters like is in the latter three chapters of Revelation. Revelation 20 well flows chronologically. But some of the events written in Rev.21 & 22 are not new heavens, and a new earth timing.

 

Per that one of the signs at the end of Revelation of the new heavens and a new earth timing is no further need of a temple there in Jerusalem. Thus the Ezekiel temple sanctuary called God's House there is specifically for the time of Christ's Millennial reign. Yet God's River and the tree of life are shown manifested there on earth in association with that temple of Ezekiel. Likewise with the Rev.22:14-15 verses we are shown that about that Millennial timing too.

 

Thus these present Scripture evidence beyond all doubt that Christ's coming thousand years reign with His elect is upon... this earth, and not up in the clouds.

 

 

Actually, you’ve made a grave mistake by assuming that Ezekiel 47:12 is about the Tree of Life. The text says...

 

Ezekiel 47:12

12 And by the river upon the bank thereof, on this side and on that side, shall grow all trees for meat, whose leaf shall not fade, neither shall the fruit thereof be consumed: it shall bring forth new fruit according to his months, because their waters they issued out of the sanctuary: and the fruit thereof shall be for meat, and the leaf thereof for medicine.

KJV

 

Just because they have some similar phrases, there is nothing within this verse to prove that it is talking about the Tree of Life at all! To the contrary, it shows that the WATER carries similar qualities FROM GOD to these trees as will exist with the Tree of Life in Revelation 22.

 

Remember: GOD is the source of all life-giving power, not some tree or some river of water!

 

Look, one of the things that can be ascertained from the study of the Hebrew language is that “living water” is "MOVING water!” We would say “ENERGETIC water,” or more simply “RUNNING water,” today. That is why Yochanan (John) baptized in the Yarden River (the Jordan)! It is a river that flows all the time (although at certain times of the year, he probably stayed close to the shallows)!

 

For instance, consider this commandment:

 

Leviticus 15:13

13 And when he that hath an issue is cleansed of his issue; then he shall number to himself seven days for his cleansing, and wash his clothes, and bathe his flesh in running water, and shall be clean.

KJV

 

The phrase in Hebrew is "bamayim chayiym” and literally translates to “in living waters.” It’s the same phrase (minus the "ba-“ prefix meaning “in”) as here:

 

Jeremiah 17:13

13 O LORD, the hope of Israel, all that forsake thee shall be ashamed, and they that depart from me shall be written in the earth, because they have forsaken the LORD, the fountain of living waters.

KJV

 

So, it’s important that one recognizes that these two passages, even though they sound similar, are NOT equivalent!

 

Also, since the two scenes are NOT equivalent, neither are the time periods in which they are found. Yechezk’el (Ezekiel) was talking about the Millennial Jerusalem, but Revelation 21 and 22 are talking about the New Jerusalem of the New Earth, a time period that will exist BEYOND the time of the Millennium. Indeed, it is AFTER the Great White Throne Judgment, not BEFORE, as the Millennium will be.

 

However, you are correct, and it can be proved from other sources that Yeshua`s Kingdom will be RIGHT HERE ON THIS EARTH during the Millennium, just as it will be after the GWTJ in the New Earth.

 

 

I disagree, the many trees on either side of the River in Ezekiel 47 is the same tree of life and River of waters of life mentioned in Revelation 22. It's Revelation 21 that is especially about events of the new heavens and a new earth. But Rev.22 has some things in it regarding only the time of Christ's Millennial reign.

 

Rev.22

² In the midst of the street of it, and on either side of the river, was there the tree of life, which bare twelve manner of fruits, and yielded her fruit every month: and the leaves of the tree were for the healing of the nations.

 

Ezekiel 47

¹² And by the river upon the bank thereof, on this side and on that side, shall grow all trees for meat, whose leaf shall not fade, neither shall the fruit thereof be consumed: it shall bring forth new fruit according to his months, because their waters they issued out of the sanctuary: and the fruit thereof shall be for meat, and the leaf thereof for medicine.

 

Rev.22

¹⁴ Blessed are they that do His commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.

¹⁵ For without are dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and idolaters, and whosoever loveth and maketh a lie.

 

There's the holy city, and outside its gates are the wicked, meaning that is Millennial timing right there. God's River and the tree of life will have its beginning on earth again at Christ's Millennial reign. Symbolic philosophy loosely based on The Bible will not prevent that from happenning.

 

 

Don’t be deceived or misled by the chapter divisions in the Bible. Those weren’t added until FAR after the text was originally written! Revelation 20 flows into Revelation 21 which, in turn, flows into Revelation 22. They are all part of the ONE prophecy. While chapter and verse divisions make it easier to find a particular text, they are NOT inspired! Honest men did the best they could at dividing the Scriptures into chunks of manageable text, but many times the divisions are arbitrary.

 

While it is a common belief that everything in the eternal state will be “hunky dory” without any sin or its consequences whatsoever, we are never told that within the Scriptures! We are told this:

 

Revelation 21:3-8

3 And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God.

4 And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.

5 And he that sat upon the throne said, Behold, I make all things new. And he said unto me, Write: for these words are true and faithful.

6 And he said unto me, It is done. I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end. I will give unto him that is athirst of the fountain of the water of life freely.

7 He that overcometh shall inherit all things; and I will be his God, and he shall be my son.

8 But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.

KJV

 

Then later, 

 

Revelation 21:23-22:5

23 And the city had no need of the sun, neither of the moon, to shine in it: for the glory of God did lighten it, and the Lamb is the light thereof.

24 And the nations of them which are saved shall walk in the light of it: and the kings of the earth do bring their glory and honour into it.

25 And the gates of it shall not be shut at all by day: for there shall be no night there.

26 And they shall bring the glory and honour of the nations into it.

27 And there shall in no wise enter into it any thing that defileth, neither whatsoever worketh abomination, or maketh a lie: but they which are written in the Lamb's book of life.

1 And he shewed me a pure river of water of life, clear as crystal, proceeding out of the throne of God and of the Lamb.

2 In the midst of the street of it, and on either side of the river, was there the tree of life, which bare twelve manner of fruits, and yielded her fruit every month: and the leaves of the tree were for the healing of the nations.

3 And there shall be no more curse: but the throne of God and of the Lamb shall be in it; and his servants shall serve him:

4 And they shall see his face; and his name shall be in their foreheads.

5 And there shall be no night there; and they need no candle, neither light of the sun; for the Lord God giveth them light: and they shall reign for ever and ever.

KJV

 

And, that last verse begs the question, “They shall reign OVER WHOM?!"

 

Something else that is not taught is this:

 

Isaiah 66:22-24

22 For as the new heavens and the new earth, which I will make, shall remain before me, saith the LORD, so shall your seed and your name remain.

23 And it shall come to pass, that from one new moon to another, and from one sabbath to another, shall all flesh come to worship before me, saith the LORD.

24 And they shall go forth, and look upon the carcases of the men that have transgressed against me: for their worm shall not die, neither shall their fire be quenched; and they shall be an abhorring unto all flesh.

KJV

 

This is OBVIOUSLY AFTER the Great White Throne Judgment for it is AFTER their sentencing!

 

[Marilyn C]

Hi Retrobyter,

 

You asked the important question - `They shall reign over whom?` The `they,` meaning those in the New Jerusalem, are God`s government ruling in righteousness & peace over `the nations of those who are saved shall walk in its light, & the kings of the earth shall bring their glory & honour into it.` (Rev. 21: 24)

 

However I think you would realise this. So what is not making sense there bro. Marilyn.

 

I think you mean - How can they see the corpses of those who are dead? (Isa. 66: 24) Fair question. God is talking about the New Heavens & the New Earth to the people of Israel. He is giving them the big picture, however He then gives the details before that. We do that also. When we are going on a holiday we might say - We are going to New Zealand. Then we give the details leading up to that.

 

Thus God gives the overview - New Heavens & New Earth, then says about the judgment of those in the flesh, (Armageddon & sheep & goats ) & how the Gentiles who are left will bring back the Jews to Jerusalem. Thus the corpses that they will view are those in the valley of Jehoshaphat & elsewhere.

 

Hope that helps, Marilyn.

Edited January 8, 2015 by Marilyn C

[Sister]

Don’t be deceived or misled by the chapter divisions in the Bible. Those weren’t added until FAR after the text was originally written! Revelation 20 flows into Revelation 21 which, in turn, flows into Revelation 22. They are all part of the ONE prophecy.

 

Hi Retrobyter

 

Rev 21 "The New Jerusalem" is as you say, flowing from Rev 20 and giving the overall picture of the New Heaven's and New Earth.  This can only be achieved after the last enemy is destroyed....death...which will be thrown into the lake of fire at the White Throne judgement, and the 2nd resurrection completed, at the end of the 1000 years, for all will be spirit.

 

4 And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.

 

No more death can only happen AFTER the 1000 years when the final judgement has taken place.

 

Still in Rev 21, the vision switches now to "The holy Jerusalem" descending out of heaven from God.  We now go to the start of the Millennium.  Nations are flowing into this city, and they are flesh.  They will continue to die, so death will still be around.

 

Now we roll into Rev 22, which is still speaking of the millennium, only it describes the "Tree of Life" which bears 12 fruits every month, symbolising the healing of Israel, and the leaves used to heal the nations.

 

Israel are the fruits, nourished from Christ because they are grafted back on to this tree which is Christ, and because they are taught "truth" they will in turn preach this truth to the outside nations, which is symbolised as leaves (medicine) - for the gentiles conversion to Christ. 

 

 

While chapter and verse divisions make it easier to find a particular text, they are NOT inspired! Honest men did the best they could at dividing the Scriptures into chunks of manageable text, but many times the divisions are arbitrary.

 

If God did not preserve his Word, we would be left with nothing but guesswork.

All scripture is inspired by God.  God chose the men he would use in the translation process, because he promised us that his Word can be trusted, ....and we can find it to depend on it.

 

Psalms 12:6   The words of the LORD are pure words: as silver tried in a furnace of earth, purified seven times.

Psalms 18:30   As for God, his way is perfect: the word of the LORD is tried: he is a buckler to all those that trust in him.

Psalms 33:4   For the word of the LORD is right; and all his works are done in truth.

Psalms 56:10   In God will I praise his word: in the LORD will I praise his word.

 

Psalms 68:11   The Lord gave the word: great was the company of those that published it.

 

Revelation 21:23-22:5

23 And the city had no need of the sun, neither of the moon, to shine in it: for the glory of God did lighten it, and the Lamb is the light thereof.

24 And the nations of them which are saved shall walk in the light of it: and the kings of the earth do bring their glory and honour into it.

25 And the gates of it shall not be shut at all by day: for there shall be no night there.

26 And they shall bring the glory and honour of the nations into it.

27 And there shall in no wise enter into it any thing that defileth, neither whatsoever worketh abomination, or maketh a lie: but they which are written in the Lamb's book of life.

1 And he shewed me a pure river of water of life, clear as crystal, proceeding out of the throne of God and of the Lamb.

2 In the midst of the street of it, and on either side of the river, was there the tree of life, which bare twelve manner of fruits, and yielded her fruit every month: and the leaves of the tree were for the healing of the nations.

3 And there shall be no more curse: but the throne of God and of the Lamb shall be in it; and his servants shall serve him:

4 And they shall see his face; and his name shall be in their foreheads.

5 And there shall be no night there; and they need no candle, neither light of the sun; for the Lord God giveth them light: and they shall reign for ever and ever.

KJV

 

And, that last verse begs the question, “They shall reign OVER WHOM?!"

 

There shall be no more curse for Israel.  In the kingdom Israel will be healed and led to truth.  They will prosper as saints in training working towards their salvation which is already determined for them who have been invited to dwell inside the kingdom,... holy Jerusalem. (according to the election of grace)  They will dwell only, not inherit yet until after the 1000 years.  They are still "flesh".  They will multiply and live to a ripe old age of 100.  Their children will play safely in the streets. 

 

Isaiah 65:20   There shall be no more thence an infant of days, nor an old man that hath not filled his days: for the child shall die an hundred years old; but the sinner being an hundred years old shall be accursed.

 

Zechariah 8:4   Thus saith the LORD of hosts; There shall yet old men and old women dwell in the streets of Jerusalem, and every man with his staff in his hand for very age.

Zechariah 8:5   And the streets of the city shall be full of boys and girls playing in the streets thereof.

 

Isaiah 11:6   The wolf also shall dwell with the lamb, and the leopard shall lie down with the kid; and the calf and the young lion and the fatling together; and a little child shall lead them.
Isaiah 65:25   The wolf and the lamb shall feed together, and the lion shall eat straw like the bullock: and dust shall be the serpent's meat. They shall not hurt nor destroy in all my holy mountain, saith the LORD.

 

 

As for those living outside the kingdom, many will come and convert, but there will be some stubborn ones, as those nations who do not serve Christ will be cursed with no rain, and we still have the war of Gog and Magog to come at the end of the millennium, another curse for them that join this war to attack the kingdom.

 

Those who reign are the resurrected saints with Christ.  They will reign over Israel because the saints have already inherited the kingdom, and all that belongs to Christ.

In the kingdom, there will be no jealousy as all are working in truth to serve Christ.

 

 

Something else that is not taught is this:

 

Isaiah 66:22-24

22 For as the new heavens and the new earth, which I will make, shall remain before me, saith the LORD, so shall your seed and your name remain.

23 And it shall come to pass, that from one new moon to another, and from one sabbath to another, shall all flesh come to worship before me, saith the LORD.

24 And they shall go forth, and look upon the carcases of the men that have transgressed against me: for their worm shall not die, neither shall their fire be quenched; and they shall be an abhorring unto all flesh.

KJV

 

This is OBVIOUSLY AFTER the Great White Throne Judgment for it is AFTER their sentencing!

 

There are still dead bodies here from Armageddon which are buried in the valley of Hinnom.  They are piled up so high and left there as a reminder of those who fought against Christ.  During the millennium, these dead carcasses will be in open view.  There are so many bodies for the worms to eat through, that they cannot get through it all, not even in a thousand years.  That's how I see it.

 

So the White throne judgement has not taken place yet. 

 

Thank you brother.  I look forward to your feedback.

[Retrobyter]

Shalom, Marilyn C. and Sister.

 

Marilyn, you said,

 

Hi Retrobyter,

 

You asked the important question - `They shall reign over whom?` The `they,` meaning those in the New Jerusalem, are God`s government ruling in righteousness & peace over `the nations of those who are saved shall walk in its light, & the kings of the earth shall bring their glory & honour into it.` (Rev. 21: 24)

 

However I think you would realise this. So what is not making sense there bro. Marilyn.

 

I think you mean - How can they see the corpses of those who are dead? (Isa. 66: 24) Fair question. God is talking about the New Heavens & the New Earth to the people of Israel. He is giving them the big picture, however He then gives the details before that. We do that also. When we are going on a holiday we might say - We are going to New Zealand. Then we give the details leading up to that.

 

Thus God gives the overview - New Heavens & New Earth, then says about the judgment of those in the flesh, (Armageddon & sheep & goats ) & how the Gentiles who are left will bring back the Jews to Jerusalem. Thus the corpses that they will view are those in the valley of Jehoshaphat & elsewhere.

 

Hope that helps, Marilyn.

 

 

Oh, I totally agree with your first statement! I was answering Salty who was suggesting that Revelation 22 was changing its focus back to the Millennium after discussing the New Earth and New Jerusalem. My answer was simply that the New Earth’s time, which some call the "Eternal State,” will have aspects that do NOT "fit in" to our comfy little “boxes” of theological viewpoints. I was asking the question of Salty in particular, attempting to encourage him to study out the actual wording of Revelation 22 and to think "OUTSIDE the box."

 

However, the focus is NOT going back to the Millennium; rather, I was suggesting that there will be mortal human beings during the Eternal State when the New Jerusalem lands upon the New Earth! One doesn’t need to change the Word of God to reflect one’s theological viewpoint of the End Times; one needs to change one’s theological viewpoint of the End Times to reflect what the Word of God says!

 

Will there only be believers in the Eternal State? One might like to think so, but what does the Word of God say? Everybody likes a fairytale ending that says “And they lived happily ever after,” but God is not static, that is, “lacking in movement, action, or change"; He is DYNAMIC, that is, “energetic, spirited, active, lively, zestful, vital, vigorous, forceful, powerful, positive; high-powered, aggressive, bold, enterprising; magnetic, passionate, fiery, high-octane, go-getting, peppy, full of get-up-and-go, full of vim and vigor, gutsy, gutty, spunky, feisty!" We will continue to grow and learn! We will continue to invent and innovate! GOD may have infinite knowledge, but we are NEVER promised such a thing! God is INFINITE, and God is the CREATOR. Put the two together, and one should notice that He is the INFINITE CREATOR! What we ARE promised is that we will SERVE HIM forever! That implies WORK!

[Salty]

 

Shalom, Salty.

 

 

 

Shalom, Salty.

 

 

 

Hi Salty,

 

I do believe that Ez. temple & layout is literal. It has the waters flowing to the sea, (Ez. 47: 8) & all the land promised to Israel. When we look at the New Jerusalem we see that in that time of the New Heavens & New Earth, there will be NO sea. (Rev. 21: 1)

 

And we obviously think differently regarding the Body of Christ & Israel.

 

Marilyn.

 

 

I recognize a similar flow in the latter Ezekiel chapters like is in the latter three chapters of Revelation. Revelation 20 well flows chronologically. But some of the events written in Rev.21 & 22 are not new heavens, and a new earth timing.

 

Per that one of the signs at the end of Revelation of the new heavens and a new earth timing is no further need of a temple there in Jerusalem. Thus the Ezekiel temple sanctuary called God's House there is specifically for the time of Christ's Millennial reign. Yet God's River and the tree of life are shown manifested there on earth in association with that temple of Ezekiel. Likewise with the Rev.22:14-15 verses we are shown that about that Millennial timing too.

 

Thus these present Scripture evidence beyond all doubt that Christ's coming thousand years reign with His elect is upon... this earth, and not up in the clouds.

 

 

Actually, you’ve made a grave mistake by assuming that Ezekiel 47:12 is about the Tree of Life. The text says...

 

Ezekiel 47:12

12 And by the river upon the bank thereof, on this side and on that side, shall grow all trees for meat, whose leaf shall not fade, neither shall the fruit thereof be consumed: it shall bring forth new fruit according to his months, because their waters they issued out of the sanctuary: and the fruit thereof shall be for meat, and the leaf thereof for medicine.

KJV

 

Just because they have some similar phrases, there is nothing within this verse to prove that it is talking about the Tree of Life at all! To the contrary, it shows that the WATER carries similar qualities FROM GOD to these trees as will exist with the Tree of Life in Revelation 22.

 

Remember: GOD is the source of all life-giving power, not some tree or some river of water!

 

Look, one of the things that can be ascertained from the study of the Hebrew language is that “living water” is "MOVING water!” We would say “ENERGETIC water,” or more simply “RUNNING water,” today. That is why Yochanan (John) baptized in the Yarden River (the Jordan)! It is a river that flows all the time (although at certain times of the year, he probably stayed close to the shallows)!

 

For instance, consider this commandment:

 

Leviticus 15:13

13 And when he that hath an issue is cleansed of his issue; then he shall number to himself seven days for his cleansing, and wash his clothes, and bathe his flesh in running water, and shall be clean.

KJV

 

The phrase in Hebrew is "bamayim chayiym” and literally translates to “in living waters.” It’s the same phrase (minus the "ba-“ prefix meaning “in”) as here:

 

Jeremiah 17:13

13 O LORD, the hope of Israel, all that forsake thee shall be ashamed, and they that depart from me shall be written in the earth, because they have forsaken the LORD, the fountain of living waters.

KJV

 

So, it’s important that one recognizes that these two passages, even though they sound similar, are NOT equivalent!

 

Also, since the two scenes are NOT equivalent, neither are the time periods in which they are found. Yechezk’el (Ezekiel) was talking about the Millennial Jerusalem, but Revelation 21 and 22 are talking about the New Jerusalem of the New Earth, a time period that will exist BEYOND the time of the Millennium. Indeed, it is AFTER the Great White Throne Judgment, not BEFORE, as the Millennium will be.

 

However, you are correct, and it can be proved from other sources that Yeshua`s Kingdom will be RIGHT HERE ON THIS EARTH during the Millennium, just as it will be after the GWTJ in the New Earth.

 

 

I disagree, the many trees on either side of the River in Ezekiel 47 is the same tree of life and River of waters of life mentioned in Revelation 22. It's Revelation 21 that is especially about events of the new heavens and a new earth. But Rev.22 has some things in it regarding only the time of Christ's Millennial reign.

 

Rev.22

² In the midst of the street of it, and on either side of the river, was there the tree of life, which bare twelve manner of fruits, and yielded her fruit every month: and the leaves of the tree were for the healing of the nations.

 

Ezekiel 47

¹² And by the river upon the bank thereof, on this side and on that side, shall grow all trees for meat, whose leaf shall not fade, neither shall the fruit thereof be consumed: it shall bring forth new fruit according to his months, because their waters they issued out of the sanctuary: and the fruit thereof shall be for meat, and the leaf thereof for medicine.

 

Rev.22

¹⁴ Blessed are they that do His commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.

¹⁵ For without are dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and idolaters, and whosoever loveth and maketh a lie.

 

There's the holy city, and outside its gates are the wicked, meaning that is Millennial timing right there. God's River and the tree of life will have its beginning on earth again at Christ's Millennial reign. Symbolic philosophy loosely based on The Bible will not prevent that from happenning.

 

 

Don’t be deceived or misled by the chapter divisions in the Bible. Those weren’t added until FAR after the text was originally written! Revelation 20 flows into Revelation 21 which, in turn, flows into Revelation 22. They are all part of the ONE prophecy. While chapter and verse divisions make it easier to find a particular text, they are NOT inspired! Honest men did the best they could at dividing the Scriptures into chunks of manageable text, but many times the divisions are arbitrary.

 

While it is a common belief that everything in the eternal state will be “hunky dory” without any sin or its consequences whatsoever, we are never told that within the Scriptures! We are told this:

 

Revelation 21:3-8

3 And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God.

4 And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.

5 And he that sat upon the throne said, Behold, I make all things new. And he said unto me, Write: for these words are true and faithful.

6 And he said unto me, It is done. I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end. I will give unto him that is athirst of the fountain of the water of life freely.

7 He that overcometh shall inherit all things; and I will be his God, and he shall be my son.

8 But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.

KJV

 

Then later, 

 

Revelation 21:23-22:5

23 And the city had no need of the sun, neither of the moon, to shine in it: for the glory of God did lighten it, and the Lamb is the light thereof.

24 And the nations of them which are saved shall walk in the light of it: and the kings of the earth do bring their glory and honour into it.

25 And the gates of it shall not be shut at all by day: for there shall be no night there.

26 And they shall bring the glory and honour of the nations into it.

27 And there shall in no wise enter into it any thing that defileth, neither whatsoever worketh abomination, or maketh a lie: but they which are written in the Lamb's book of life.

1 And he shewed me a pure river of water of life, clear as crystal, proceeding out of the throne of God and of the Lamb.

2 In the midst of the street of it, and on either side of the river, was there the tree of life, which bare twelve manner of fruits, and yielded her fruit every month: and the leaves of the tree were for the healing of the nations.

3 And there shall be no more curse: but the throne of God and of the Lamb shall be in it; and his servants shall serve him:

4 And they shall see his face; and his name shall be in their foreheads.

5 And there shall be no night there; and they need no candle, neither light of the sun; for the Lord God giveth them light: and they shall reign for ever and ever.

KJV

 

And, that last verse begs the question, “They shall reign OVER WHOM?!"

 

Something else that is not taught is this:

 

Isaiah 66:22-24

22 For as the new heavens and the new earth, which I will make, shall remain before me, saith the LORD, so shall your seed and your name remain.

23 And it shall come to pass, that from one new moon to another, and from one sabbath to another, shall all flesh come to worship before me, saith the LORD.

24 And they shall go forth, and look upon the carcases of the men that have transgressed against me: for their worm shall not die, neither shall their fire be quenched; and they shall be an abhorring unto all flesh.

KJV

 

This is OBVIOUSLY AFTER the Great White Throne Judgment for it is AFTER their sentencing!

 

 

 

No deception by chapter divisions on my part. It's the events I recognize.

 

Don't know why this is so difficult for some to understand. If there's a temple on earth, that's Millennial timing. If no temple, then that's new heavens and a new earth timing.

 

If the holy city and tree of life are manifested on earth but with the wicked still existing outside its gates, that's millennial timing. After the wicked are cast into the "lake of fire", then comes the new heavens and a new earth timing.

[Marilyn C]

Hi Salty,

 

I agree with you.

 

 

Hi Retrobyter,

 

Where does it say that the New Jerusalem `lands on the earth?` Or even indicate that it is `on the earth?`

 

Marilyn.