Revelation 10 - the Q'uran?

[Ezra]

Could the book in Revelation 10 be referring to the Q'uran?

Not very likely.  If we keep in mind that the apostle John was seeing vision after vision in Heaven, but then returned to earth to actually write down the entire book of Revelation, it should be obvious that "the little book" mentioned in this vision is in fact the book of Revelation, which is both sweet and bitter. 

 

This is confirmed by the statement "THOU MUST PROPHESY again before many peoples, and nations, and tongues, and kings" (Rev 10:11).  Revelation is John's prophetic book.  When we consider the history of the Bible (which includes Revelation), then this statement was fulfilled over the centuries, and throughout the world.

[Betadynamique]

 

 

 

I like the story of Jonah, it exemplifies repentance. It is in the Bible, a little book of a minor prophet, but a greatness of wisdom. In the first chapter, verses 8 and 9, that expresses a kind of seal, even to suggest there is an angel standing on the sea and the land. There's a certain literal meaning, that is the experience of the prophet, and how that relates to the experiences of people, and from that are more figurative, abstract interpretations according to how anyone can identify with the story. Suppose the seven thunders are confessions, and are meant to be forgot, or that because the book of the Revelation is written down after John experienced the vision, the meanings of the seven thunders are suggested in the first chapters. To say it's sweet as honey in the mouth but it's bitter in the stomach, that could be going to a hypothetical interpretation of a candy-like, cartoonish image to a more hard-core personal realization of the same text. Proverbs is also a book of wisdom, such as verse 2 of chapter 25, that the ending of Revelation 10 could be hinting something about that, especially how it leads into Revelation 11 where the seventh angel sounded and the kingdoms of the world become the kingdoms of Christ. We can know the signs but we can't know the exact time of the return of Christ, it's almost as though if anyone tries to set the date, in the setting of it then God changes it, at which point they're stuck like Jonah on the outskirts almost disgruntled that Nineveh wasn't destroyed.

 

This doesn't address the O.P. 

 

 

Yes it does.

 

 

I think the O.P. is talking about whether the angel is Jesus and if the 'little book' is the Qu'ran  Your post just doesn't really address these things.

 

 

Revelation 1:1 should be obvious, apparently it's not. 

[Marilyn C]

Marilyn,

You are ignoring the Greek word allos which means "of the same kind." The angel is of the same kind as the previous angels blowing the trumpets in chapter 9. That means that this angel in chapter 10 is not Jesus and you are mishandling the text of Scripture. Jesus is NEVER represented as an angel in the Bible and if you say otherwise, you are 100% wrong, period.

Just as God spoke through prophets, God also speaks through angels who are his messengers. That is what is happening. The angel is introduced as being of the same kind as the angels blowing the trumpets and that fact on its own precludes this angel from being anything other than an angel. That is the correct teaching.

Hi Shiloh357,

Let`s look at the Greek word `allos.`

 

From the Strong`s Concordance, I see that it means - `else,` ie. different (in many applications)

From Robert Young`s Concordance, I see that it means – not the same.

So I don`t know where you get your meaning from!

Now to correct your misunderstanding of God`s ways - God does represent Christ as an Angel.

Christ is referred to as

 

- the `angel of the Covenant.` (Mal. 3:1)

- sometimes as `the angel of God,` to guide & guard (Ex. 14: 19 Gen. 21: 17).

- On other occasions He appears as `the angel of His presence,` to sympathize & save (Isa. 63: 9)

- & frequently, `the angel of the LORD,` to sustain & strengthen as in (1 Kings 19: 7)

These are theophanies, as we may term them.

In His mission of mercy this Messenger often disguises His direct guidance in order to display His guardianship;

“And the Angel of God, who went before the camp of Israel, moved & went behind them; & the pillar of cloud went from before them & stood behind them.” (Ex. 14: 19)

 

When Balak the son of Zippor & Balaam the hireling connived together to flash curses from the highest crags down on the camp of Israel, the Angel of the Lord was there to challenge their authority. (Num. 22: 34 – 35; 23: 12) The very Messenger suits Himself to every season & occasion, & wherever His visits are recorded a reason for His appearing is given.

In the book of Judges, where He plays a very prominent part, He is seen censuring sin at Bochim (Judg. 2: 1 – 5), cursing cowards at meroz (Judg. 5: 23), or choosing special workmen for definite service (Judg. 6: 11, 12, 20 – 22). When Gideon was vexed by the maurauding Midianites, he heard the voice of `the Angel of the Lord,` addressing him as `a mighty man of valour.` (Judg. 6: 12)

He who prepared a meal for weary Elijah & said to him to `Arise & eat,` is the same who prepared a meal for tired disciples on the shore of Galilee & said to them, `Come & dine.` He is the same yesterday under the old covenant, today under the new, & forever.

“In all their affliction he was afflicted, & the angel of His presence saved them” (Isa. 63: 9). Yes

 

“The Angel of the LORD encamps all around those who fear Him, & delivers them” (Ps. 34: 7) .

 

How very constant He is! Apart from Him there is no one that can comfort the soul; without His company there is nothing can cheer the heart; it is virtually no loss to lose all but this wonderful Saviour, (who comes as an `Angel` at times.)

 

 

Marilyn.

 

Edited July 14, 2015 by Marilyn C

[missmuffet]

No,Revelation 10 has nothing at all to do with the Q'uran. The messenger in Malachi 3 is John the Baptist not an angel.

[Guest shiloh357]

No Marilyn,

 

The messenger of the covenant mentioned there is the prophet, John the Baptist.  Mal. 3:1-3 is a prophecy of his ministry.   In fact, that is why it is wrong to translate it as "angel."

 

I use the Greek dictionary authored and edited by Spiro Zodihates, an actual Greek scholar.   He points out that it means "of the same kind"   in certain contexts like Rev. 10:1.  The fact is that context determines how we understand a word.   Word usage always trumps word meaning.

 

Sorry, but I am not convinced.   The angel is not Jesus, and there is no reason for me to accept that.  You can keep on believing that if you wish,  I don't really care.  But you will not change my mind.

[missmuffet]

Marilyn do you consider yourself to be a teacher of God's word?

[Ezra]

As time progresses, we will see Christians turning more and more to strange doctrines and fables.  So we should not be surprised to encounter a lot of peculiar ideas even on Christian forums.

 

For those who claim that the mighty angel described in Rev 10:1-4 is Christ, the very next two verses demolish that assumption (vv 5,6):  And the angel which I saw stand upon the sea and upon the earth lifted up his hand to heaven, And sware by him that liveth for ever and ever, who created heaven, and the things that therein are, and the earth, and the things that therein are, and the sea, and the things which are therein, that there should be time no longer:

 

This angel is seen lifting up his hand to Heaven (taking an oath) and swearing by none other than God -- "Him that liveth for ever and ever".  Since Christ is God, and this angel is swearing by the Almighty Creator (the triune Godhead),  he cannot possibly be Christ, but a creature who acknowledges the immutable Creator.

 

 

[Ezra]

Marilyn do you consider yourself to be a teacher of God's word?

Apparently.  Except that there are times when she is considerably off track.  Before His incarnation, Christ did appear from time to time as the Angel of the LORD in the OT.  That was then, and these were called Theophanies or Christophanies.

 

However, after His resurrection and exaltation He appears as the Lord God Almighty (Rev 1:8, 11-13): I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty...  Saying, I am Alpha and Omega, the first and the last: and, What thou seest, write in a book, and send it unto the seven churches which are in Asia; unto Ephesus, and unto Smyrna, and unto Pergamos, and unto Thyatira, and unto Sardis, and unto Philadelphia, and unto Laodicea.  And I turned to see the voice that spake with me. And being turned, I saw seven golden candlesticks;  And in the midst of the seven candlesticks one like unto the Son of man, clothed with a garment down to the foot, and girt about the paps with a golden girdle.

 

 Please note carefully that the one who calls Himself the Alpha and the Omega is the Lord, the Almighty, who also happens to be the Son of Man -- Jesus.  Therefore He further identifies Himself (vv 17,18) as follows:  And when I saw him, I fell at his feet as dead. And he laid his right hand upon me, saying unto me, Fear not; I am the first and the last:  I am he that liveth, and was dead; and, behold, I am alive for evermore, Amen; and have the keys of hell and of death.

[MorningGlory]

 

 

 

 

I like the story of Jonah, it exemplifies repentance. It is in the Bible, a little book of a minor prophet, but a greatness of wisdom. In the first chapter, verses 8 and 9, that expresses a kind of seal, even to suggest there is an angel standing on the sea and the land. There's a certain literal meaning, that is the experience of the prophet, and how that relates to the experiences of people, and from that are more figurative, abstract interpretations according to how anyone can identify with the story. Suppose the seven thunders are confessions, and are meant to be forgot, or that because the book of the Revelation is written down after John experienced the vision, the meanings of the seven thunders are suggested in the first chapters. To say it's sweet as honey in the mouth but it's bitter in the stomach, that could be going to a hypothetical interpretation of a candy-like, cartoonish image to a more hard-core personal realization of the same text. Proverbs is also a book of wisdom, such as verse 2 of chapter 25, that the ending of Revelation 10 could be hinting something about that, especially how it leads into Revelation 11 where the seventh angel sounded and the kingdoms of the world become the kingdoms of Christ. We can know the signs but we can't know the exact time of the return of Christ, it's almost as though if anyone tries to set the date, in the setting of it then God changes it, at which point they're stuck like Jonah on the outskirts almost disgruntled that Nineveh wasn't destroyed.

 

This doesn't address the O.P. 

 

 

Yes it does.

 

 

I think the O.P. is talking about whether the angel is Jesus and if the 'little book' is the Qu'ran  Your post just doesn't really address these things.

 

 

Revelation 1:1 should be obvious, apparently it's not. 

 

 

You didn't even reference Rev. 1:1......at all! 

 

Rev. 1:1

 

1 The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John:

[Marilyn C]

Hi bopeep1909,

 

I consider myself as one who has been taught by Godly men who were given great clarity of God`s word. They came from the Welsh Revival, & also those they taught. They obviously were not perfect or accurate in everything as the Holy Spirit is still leading us into all truth.

 

I do acknowledge when I am in error. eg. When Ezra pointed out I was talking about Israel & the one in question was Isaac. Then with Shiloh, I told him I learnt from him regarding the `lukewarm` meaning. Also I have learnt much from those who know Hebrew & Greek.

 

Always willing to listen & learn. However as you know I will keep at what I believe until I really understand that I am wrong. I`m not here to `win,` or be the `best,` (as if) as I see Shiloh knows how to express a lot of doctrine better than me. I think we are all strong in the truths we have, but are weaker in other areas. Just as well so we can appreciate each other.

 

Also I would like to say I do appreciate the other giftings around the forum, in people. We all can see the great compassion of the Lord through our sister, Kwik & petula, & I could go on & on. Do love those with a sense of humour, MorningGlory, Spock, etc etc

 

Blessings, Marilyn.

Edited July 14, 2015 by Marilyn C