bob2 Posted June 30, 2015 Group: Members Followers: 0 Topic Count: 2 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 38 Content Per Day: 0.01 Reputation: 43 Days Won: 0 Joined: 04/22/2015 Status: Offline Share Posted June 30, 2015 There is a verse in the Bible that says " to know good and not do it is sin " also" the man that knew the Lords will , but did not prepare or do the Lords will , shall be beaten with many stripes " just going off memory not sure where they are it in the NT . but the Idea is the same as James " faith without works is dead " Its a matter of Obedience or Disobedience . Unbelief would be the opposite of faith , so I see it as to obey or not to obey , after knowing the truth . Faith in its self is not the issue . We are saved by the Faith of Christ on our behalf . But walking in obedience is another thing . Thats what James is speaking of I believe. We must be saved before we can walk in Obedience . James is not taking about saving faith , but Obedient faith of the saved one . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Omegaman 3.0 Posted June 30, 2015 Group: Graduated to Heaven Followers: 57 Topic Count: 1,546 Topics Per Day: 0.21 Content Count: 10,320 Content Per Day: 1.41 Reputation: 12,323 Days Won: 9 Joined: 04/15/2004 Status: Offline Birthday: 11/05/1951 Share Posted June 30, 2015 Do you agree with James, or do you agree with Paul? It is not an either/or, it is a both/and. If you think that only one is true, then you are misunderstanding one or the other or both. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FreeinChrist Posted June 30, 2015 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 192 Topics Per Day: 0.05 Content Count: 1,393 Content Per Day: 0.35 Reputation: 635 Days Won: 4 Joined: 06/29/2013 Status: Offline Share Posted June 30, 2015 Faith...in what? If we have faith in Jesus and His ultimate sacrifice for our sake our immediate and full hearted response is love..love for the One who loved so deeply for us that even in the garden He asked the Father if it was possible for that most painful, burdensome act of all the sin of the world placed on Him to be removed ...yet, He went trough with it..took ALL my sin, ALL your sin ALL the sin from Adam to the end the millennium...could I not do loving things for Him? Acts that show how much I love Him because ache first loved me before I knew Him? Call them good works if you will but they are acts of love for the One who loved me first. Acts are just that acts of love for Jesus. Is it a cup of water to the thirsty in His name or a crust of bread to the hungry. Or an arm for a hurting one to cry on and be comforted...I prefer acts to be changed to love shown to another..in Jesus name...because He first loved me. Very nicely said Little Lamb Faith,,,,in what? If we have faith in Jesus and His ultimate sacrifice for our sake our immediate and full hearted response is love..love for the One who loved so deeply for us that even in the garden He asked the Father if it was possible for that most painful, burdensome act of all the sin of the world placed on Him to be removed ...yet, He went trough with it..took ALL my sin, ALL your sin ALL the sin from Adam to the end the millennium...could I not do loving things for Him? Acts that show how much I love Him because ache first loved me before I knew Him? Call them good works if you will but they are acts of love for the One who loved me first. Acts are just that acts of love for Jesus. Is it a cup of water to the thirsty in His name or a crust of bread to the hungry. Or an arm for a hurting one to cry on and be comforted...I prefer acts to be changed to love shown to another..in Jesus name...because He first loved me. posted by Littlelambseativy Amen...... Faith with works is simply walking our talk! to God be the Glory With love-in Christ,Kwik Amen LittleLamb, and Kwik For Paul and James agree with each other if we as Christians would just learn this concept. James writes If ye fulfill the royal law according to the scriptures. Thou shalt love thy neighbor as thyself, ye do will. James 2:8 After this we see James speak of the work of faith. But when we go to look at what Paul states he makes it clear that the act or work of faith is love. For in Jesus Christ neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision; but faith which worketh by love. Galatians 5:6 Paul even calls having all faith without love/charity as having nothing, I Corinthians 13:2 and any true believer will have the love of God shed abroad in their hearts by the Holy Spirit, Romans 5:5. Peter even describe the true faith with the act of Love in I Peter 1:18-22. For just as James describes true loving faith as giving to a brother or sister in need, James 2:14-17, even so Peter calls this true faith, unfeigned love through the Spirit, I Peter 1:22. John describes this loving faith this way: 16) Hereby perceive we the love of God, because He laid down His life for us: and we ought to lay down our lives for the brethren. 17) But whoso hath this world's good, and seeth his brother have need, and shutteth up his bowel of compassion from him, how dwelleth the love of God in him? 18) My little children, let us not love in word, neither in tongue, but in deed and in truth. I John 3:16-18 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kwikphilly Posted June 30, 2015 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 96 Topic Count: 307 Topics Per Day: 0.08 Content Count: 18,143 Content Per Day: 4.61 Reputation: 27,833 Days Won: 327 Joined: 08/03/2013 Status: Offline Share Posted June 30, 2015 Blessings Dugge Amen Brother,Amen! With love-in Christ,Kwik Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thereselittleflower Posted July 2, 2015 Group: Royal Member Followers: 6 Topic Count: 58 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 5,457 Content Per Day: 1.69 Reputation: 4,220 Days Won: 37 Joined: 07/01/2015 Status: Offline Share Posted July 2, 2015 (edited) I am new here, and this is a controversial topic, but I hope it is ok if I jump in. Paul speaks of dead works several times in his letters. I used to find it confusing when put along side what James says here, until I understood something. There are two types of works being spoken about in the New Testament scriptures - that of works of the Law, which Paul tells us are dead works and can't save anyone, and then good works done in faith, which James is speaking of in this passage which he tells us are needed along with our faith. I've learned that faith must have expression outwards towards others. If it doesn't, it is stifled, dead, meaningless. When I took in the full context of what James says here, I realized that true, saving faith and (good) works are two sides of the same coin. You can't have one without the other. They go hand in hand. James goes on to tell us exactly the type of works he is talking about, which separate these "works" from the works of the Law which Paul tells us can't save us - James 2:15If a brother or sister is without clothing and in need of daily food, 16and one of you says to them, “Go in peace, be warmed and be filled,” and yet you do not give them what is necessary for their body, what use is that? 17Even so faith, if it has no works, is dead, being by itself. James 1:22But prove yourselves doers of the word, and not merely hearers who delude themselves. 23For if anyone is a hearer of the word and not a doer, he is like a man who looks at his natural face in a mirror; 24for once he has looked at himself and gone away, he has immediately forgotten what kind of person he was. 25But one who looks intently at the perfect law, the law of liberty, and abides by it, not having become a forgetful hearer but an effectual doer, this man will be blessed in what he does. James 1:27Pure and undefiled religion in the sight of our God and Father is this: to visit orphans and widows in their distress, and to keep oneself unstained by the world. These are not the works of the Law which Paul condemns reliance on, but good works of the spirit which go hand in hand with true saving faith. They cannot be separated anymore than the body can be separated from the spirit and still be alive. if someone proclaims they have faith, yet do not develop these good works of the spirit, then James is saying their faith is dead. It cannot save them. Good works do not, and cannot, arise from our own strength. They can only arise from God working withing us, so we can boast of nothing - they are only possible through God's empowering Grace within us Philippians 2:13 For it is God which works in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure. As I shared above, I found the key to bringing harmony to the superficial appearance of contradiction between Paul's words and James is to understand they are speaking of two very different types of works. When this is understood, then the "contradiction" just melts away. I hope this helps. Edited July 2, 2015 by thereselittleflower Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bob2 Posted July 3, 2015 Group: Members Followers: 0 Topic Count: 2 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 38 Content Per Day: 0.01 Reputation: 43 Days Won: 0 Joined: 04/22/2015 Status: Offline Share Posted July 3, 2015 (edited) A verse in titus says " let those that have believed , be careful to maintain good works " Our works reveal our faith as James said . Many people stop at the cross and do not walk in the spirit of the Life of Jesus Christ , or experience the new birth , because they had no intention of following Him , just securing salvation . Thats not the message of the Gospel because there is no repentance of dead works to works of faith . Through Christ s work ... We must forsake all to follow Him , or we can not follow him , I know I went to numerous churches that where not clear about this and some I would say preached a false Gospel . Baptism is a great picture of true Salvation . Edited July 3, 2015 by bob2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
*Zion* Posted July 10, 2015 Group: Royal Member Followers: 16 Topic Count: 154 Topics Per Day: 0.04 Content Count: 3,245 Content Per Day: 0.78 Reputation: 2,397 Days Won: 9 Joined: 12/09/2012 Status: Offline Birthday: 05/11/1984 Share Posted July 10, 2015 - James 2:15If a brother or sister is without clothing and in need of daily food, 16and one of you says to them, “Go in peace, be warmed and be filled,” and yet you do not give them what is necessary for their body, what use is that? 17Even so faith, if it has no works, is dead, being by itself. Thanks for your post, thereselittleflower, I totally agree with your entire post, but this verse was the one that stood out for me the most. After all, our Lord Jesus tells us: John 13:35 By this everyone will know that you are my disciples, if you love one another.” Also: 1 John 4:20 Whoever claims to love God yet hates a brother or sister is a liar. For whoever does not love their brother and sister, whom they have seen, cannot love God, whom they have not seen. This shows the our demonstration of love for one another is the most important fruit to look for if one wants to see a demonstration of faith. For surely, if we did not have any faith in God, we would not need to demonstrate any love, for love comes from Him alone. The lost of this world are already asking themselves, "why bother?" which is a sign of the times we are living, and what the enemy wishes to accomplish in turning the world away from God. How much more difficult to demonstrate love to those who have hurt us, ignored us, misunderstood us, slandered us, abandoned us... if it were not for faith in God, would we still be able to love and pray for them? Especially those who we would think to know better, fellow brothers and sisters? That always hits closer to home. But God's love never fails, and in Him we believe and trust, and demonstrate our faith to make it come alive in this unfailing love, and not be liars, saying that we have a faith that we are not demonstrating. What a wonderful God we have! If we couldn't demonstrate our faith in Him, how would WE, creatures of tangibility and conditioning, know that it is a true faith at all? In His love, Z Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
enoob57 Posted July 10, 2015 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 35 Topic Count: 100 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 41,322 Content Per Day: 7.99 Reputation: 21,526 Days Won: 76 Joined: 03/13/2010 Status: Offline Birthday: 07/27/1957 Share Posted July 10, 2015 (edited) Why is faith without works is dead? Faith without works is uncreated. Faith with works is creation. Similarly: A belief without testing it is still a belief. A tested belief becomes obvious.The creation itself was only meant for the pleasure of God in beginning us in an infinite place of learning the glories He possesses... The present sin has hidden this reality to the lost so that they believe this is all there is and that we can use it to please God by our own thoughts and manipulation of said creation. This is the works that will be burned up! However the works of God here 'IS' one of S/spirit where we take the Whole council of God, Genesis thru Revelation, and live within that formed reality which is noticed as alien to the perceived way life here and now... We then become fools to the many and finding this living/dead reality many shrink back due to illusion of pride of life and live a mutilated life style of fitting in to that which God Is not keeping... Hence our church of today and God's question to us all 'will He find faith when He comes'. Love, Stevn Edited July 10, 2015 by enoob57 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alejandro84 Posted July 10, 2015 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 7 Topic Count: 1 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 237 Content Per Day: 0.07 Reputation: 145 Days Won: 2 Joined: 09/05/2014 Status: Offline Birthday: 02/24/1984 Share Posted July 10, 2015 Because of the parable Jesus gave in Matthew 13:23-35 23 Therefore is the kingdom of heaven likened unto a certain king, which would take account of his servants. 24 And when he had begun to reckon, one was brought unto him, which owed him ten thousand talents. 25 But forasmuch as he had not to pay, his lord commanded him to be sold, and his wife, and children, and all that he had, and payment to be made. 26 The servant therefore fell down, and worshipped him, saying, Lord, have patience with me, and I will pay thee all. 27 Then the lord of that servant was moved with compassion, and loosed him, and forgave him the debt. 28 But the same servant went out, and found one of his fellowservants, which owed him an hundred pence: and he laid hands on him, and took him by the throat, saying, Pay me that thou owest. 29 And his fellowservant fell down at his feet, and besought him, saying, Have patience with me, and I will pay thee all. 30 And he would not: but went and cast him into prison, till he should pay the debt. 31 So when his fellowservants saw what was done, they were very sorry, and came and told unto their lord all that was done. 32 Then his lord, after that he had called him, said unto him, O thou wicked servant, I forgave thee all that debt, because thou desiredst me: 33 Shouldest not thou also have had compassion on thy fellowservant, even as I had pity on thee? 34 And his lord was wroth, and delivered him to the tormentors, till he should pay all that was due unto him. 35 So likewise shall my heavenly Father do also unto you, if ye from your hearts forgive not every one his brother their trespasses. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thereselittleflower Posted July 10, 2015 Group: Royal Member Followers: 6 Topic Count: 58 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 5,457 Content Per Day: 1.69 Reputation: 4,220 Days Won: 37 Joined: 07/01/2015 Status: Offline Share Posted July 10, 2015 Because of the parable Jesus gave in Matthew 13:23-35 23 Therefore is the kingdom of heaven likened unto a certain king, which would take account of his servants. 24 And when he had begun to reckon, one was brought unto him, which owed him ten thousand talents. 25 But forasmuch as he had not to pay, his lord commanded him to be sold, and his wife, and children, and all that he had, and payment to be made. 26 The servant therefore fell down, and worshipped him, saying, Lord, have patience with me, and I will pay thee all. 27 Then the lord of that servant was moved with compassion, and loosed him, and forgave him the debt. 28 But the same servant went out, and found one of his fellowservants, which owed him an hundred pence: and he laid hands on him, and took him by the throat, saying, Pay me that thou owest. 29 And his fellowservant fell down at his feet, and besought him, saying, Have patience with me, and I will pay thee all. 30 And he would not: but went and cast him into prison, till he should pay the debt. 31 So when his fellowservants saw what was done, they were very sorry, and came and told unto their lord all that was done. 32 Then his lord, after that he had called him, said unto him, O thou wicked servant, I forgave thee all that debt, because thou desiredst me: 33 Shouldest not thou also have had compassion on thy fellowservant, even as I had pity on thee? 34 And his lord was wroth, and delivered him to the tormentors, till he should pay all that was due unto him. 35 So likewise shall my heavenly Father do also unto you, if ye from your hearts forgive not every one his brother their trespasses. That is such a powerful parable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts