Marilyn C Posted May 25, 2015 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 30 Topic Count: 267 Topics Per Day: 0.07 Content Count: 13,223 Content Per Day: 3.49 Reputation: 8,507 Days Won: 12 Joined: 12/21/2013 Status: Offline Birthday: 10/06/1947 Share Posted May 25, 2015 (edited) Actually, I took the title "Worthy Forums" more as a reminder to us that if it isn't really worth saying (to the edification of others) we shouldn't post it here. Although, that having been said, I'm not sure I've lived up to that. But one keeps on trying to do better each day. So to me, the title was more along the lines of: Ephesians 4 4 Therefore I, the prisoner of the Lord, implore you to walk in a manner worthy of the calling with which you have been called, 2 with all humility and gentleness, with patience, showing tolerance for one another in love, 3 being diligent to preserve the unity of the Spirit in the bond of peace. 29 Let no [u]unwholesome word proceed from your mouth, but only such a word as is good for edification [v]according to the need of the moment, so that it will give grace to those who hear. Ephesians 5 15 Therefore [j]be careful how you walk, not as unwise men but as wise, 16 [k]making the most of your time, because the days are evil. (i.e. Don't waste time in conversations that are negative, divisive, gossip and generally don't edify--help, instruct, comfort, encourage, etc.) Edited May 25, 2015 by Marilyn C Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steward George Posted May 25, 2015 Group: Steward Followers: 110 Topic Count: 10,465 Topics Per Day: 1.25 Content Count: 27,781 Content Per Day: 3.33 Reputation: 15,482 Days Won: 129 Joined: 06/30/2001 Status: Online Birthday: 09/21/1971 Steward Share Posted May 25, 2015 Thank you for sharing with us the meaning behind "being the salt" and the tradition of salting the bread,I have never had a very clear understanding of "the salt of the earth "and though I have listen to many teachings on the subject it just never really "clicked" before your explanation .......it has been very enlightening for me.... I would love to hear,in more detail, more about the tradition of salting the bread & how it came about ......can I encourage you to start a thread on this subject?LOL You also made a reference to the salt having to do with marriage,a vow.......where can I find this in the Scriptures,to learn more? I'll write a devotional -- or a series of devotionals on this subject this week. It's such a deep subject -- much easier to comprehend in Hebrew than explain in English. I'll give you an example, I used a devotional to connect Lot's wife turned to salt -- to repentance. You can read it here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeteC-UK Posted May 25, 2015 Group: Removed from Forums for Breaking Terms of Service Followers: 0 Topic Count: 2 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 9 Content Per Day: 0.00 Reputation: 9 Days Won: 0 Joined: 05/22/2015 Status: Offline Author Share Posted May 25, 2015 (edited) Hi Folks.. Seems I inadvertantly touched on something that actually goes very deep then.. I thought it was just an observation of mine - and I would clarify,I dont mean anyhting nefarious or negative - but well,Im truly struggling with this whole bible thing - and I come here to perhaps find some peace and understanding..IM not allowed yet to start a thread - so I cant explain properly yet - but honestly,my problem it seems,goes very deep indeed,and this whole thread has only served to highlight it for me.. Im struggling with the bible - but Im not struggling with Christ - He is my mate,truly,a very personal relationship already - but it doesnt seem to pan out the way it has for most here -and Im having a great deal of confusion with some thngs others are taking for granted...I guess I can only soldier on,and hope that one of you has some clarity for me perhaps... Kwikphilly ; I would like to ad that we ARE indeed Worthy & yes,it is true that unbelievers are NOT Worthy(as without Jesus we once were not),,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,hmmm,the reason is because by the Blood of Jesus we are Worthy,our Faith in our Lord & Savior and His finished work on the cross is the ONLY reason we are Worthy..... OK - so I have to ask - what of all the countless milions that lived here BEFORE YEshua took His mortal form..?...HOW did ANYONE ever come to the Father,is Christ is the ONLY way,and HIS DEATH is th eonly guarantee - this means before Him,all of mankind was lost and doomed.... And what of al the other countless other faiths,religons and traditons..?..If god created us,then surely HE created us ALL - yet according to this,any who were born BEFORE Christ,stood absolutely no chance whatsoever of attaining "salvation" - impossible,for we are told that His death and His BLOOD are the means of redemption...Those poor Souls who came before Him,were doomed form the start,and god set it up that way..?..... No - I doubt He did that - there must be something we are missing,or something we are getting wrong,regarding this issue of salvation..God wouldnt condemn whole generations of mankind,out of hand,without hope at all until Yeshua is born... Something comes to mind here - worthy - WHO gets to judge..?....The church/bible tells us that al we need to do is believe in Christ,and that His sacrifice saves us...Well - simply - that doesnt even work - and the bible proves it...Saint John - walked with Christ side by side,learned from Him directlty - received the Holy Ghost form Him directly - if anyone was saved,then it should be John....But look what hapens - John writes MANY GOSPELS - two are ordained and he is "gods prophet" - but others are rejected as HERASY - and now saint john who SHOULD be saved,is deemed still to be under "satans influence",and spouting herasy that the church will then ban and forbid us... One minute he is a saint,gods prophet - next he is satans mouthpiece spreading lies and herasy - and all the while he is Yeshuas sworn companion,intimate confidante and trusted Disciple..IF he is saved in this manner by accepting Chirst,then how can he possibly ever write herasy..?.....There is far more going on here than meets the eye - far more going on,than the bible alone can explain.. Can you all begin to see my core problems here..?...Can anyone explain this John issue - this salvation issue..?..Clearly its not what we are taught - John stil came under "satans influence",despite that close intimate relationship with our Lord..... Butero; Most are claiming we are all automatically worthy because we simply prayed a sinners prayer or had a born again experience, and think we are worthy regardless of our lifestyle. Yes,i can see that too - and I guess it was what prompted my first observation here - and the second observation above - such a belief did John no good at all..- he still became a heretic according to the church founders...I think we should closely examine such things,fo rthey show clearly,this doctrine of "salvation",is at best little understood,and at worse,somhting entirely different to that which we think it is.. George; First of all, there's NOTHING we can do to add to the sacrifice of Yeshua (Jesus). If we think we can add to it -- then we've missed the whole understanding that we are saved completely 100% by grace! Hmm...Didnt Yeshua though,actually say that we would do ALL that He had done,and yet MORE besides..?..And elsewhere - none bible - gospel of Thomas to be precise - He tells us very clearly,we are to BECOME Him,and it is THIS process that saves us - NOT His "death" and resurrection alone,but the SELF UNDERSTANDING that it brings to us - we are not saved by His death alone,nor by a simple prayer or ritual - we must UNDERSTAND who and what we are... Anythingispossible; So while I cannot claim of my own accord any favours from the Lord, I stand with me head held high, a son of the living God, knowing I am loved and valued beyond comparison, and more than words could ever say. I know I am of great worth, as is every single one of my Brothers and Sisters in the Lord. Yes I share these sentiments exactly (almost) - but see how they directly opose other Christian viewpoints,as expressed in this very thread - such things are also at the heart of my confusion I fear - its like I speak to one Christian,get one answer - speak to the next,get another,often contrary,and on and on the confusion goes.. George; Yes, very wrong -- the Bible clearly discusses a taking away of the Church -- the timing of which is what is in question. Hmm...This church - is a continuation of the old jewish religion - and to be honest here,this is the real core issue for all of my confusion - the god of the jews - yahweh - is NOT the Father that Christ speaks of..He must be speaking about something entirely different...In other gosples,written by the disciples directly,yet banned by this church,Christ explains in great detail,that His Father,is NOT the god of the jews..I fully believe,we have been misled here - and Christ even warned us over 2000 years ago,this would happen..This issue of "taking the church away" - its not a "good thing" for Christians - or I should say,its not a good thing for the christian religion - its going to be taken away I believe,because it is a wholly false teaching and not at all what Christ intended.. In those othr gosples,written by the disciples,yet banned by the church - it tells a much different version of events - we see Chirst is directly opposed to the "pharisees",religious authoirty, whom He said quite blatantly and quite scathilgnly,were deceiving us on purpose - He said they knew the truth,yet with held it form us,and decieved us intentionally....A good deal of His teacing is actually to turn us away from all that old traditon - quit all the babbling prayers,temple rituals He said - seek the Father alone in secret solitary silence ,not out in a temple or church He said,not found by the words of man He said,but discovered as the INDWELLING living Presence... To assume then,He would turn us away from one religion,only to replace it with something nearly identical,is a base and grave error on our part I think...when we look OBJECTIVELY and without the religous blinkers or the wishful thinking - we find Him repeatedly telling us to shun and avoid all the organised traditon - He even termed it very strongly indeed - told us we should HATE our parents - I doubt He means physical hate like an enemy - but for sure,He means put aside THEIR beliefs,their customs and ways - for He told us clearly and repeatedly two things - first He said,NOBODY had EVER encountered HIS Father and nobody therefore knew of His Father before Him....This means that He CAN NOT be speaking about Yahweh or the jewish tradition,because obviously that was all fully well known BEFORE HE came,and yet he is teling us clearly NOBODY knows His truth...Even in the bible - gosple of John I believe - the rabbis question Him,saying they are of the god of Abraham - and Yesua replies very clearly,YES,you are of THAT god,but you do NOT know MY Father - He makes such a clear distinction between this jewish god and His Father,many times,many places - it becomes clear,He is speaking about two entirely different entities.... The second thing He repeats,is His scathing comments about the established religion - the falseness of its traditons,rituals,prayers - ALL of it - He repeatedly RE INTERPRETS the old ways - such as the beatitudes - you have heard it said............now I come and tell you this........as He reinterprets the old and brings forth His NEW teaching.. So,when we add it all up - He came and said to the jews ( I paraphrase of course) - Iam the lIVING god whom you have never encoutnered or even conceived of my existance...The god you know is a lesser diety,a creature (Christ said yahweh was an Angel,not a god),and is not the SOURCE of creation itself..Iam that source..Forget all the things you thought was truth,put it all aside and start again - i will teach you of the true Divine".. If we were to take into account everything ,all the available sources of informaton we have,then that passage above,WOULD sum it up nicely...I always wondered - if the god Yahweh,sent Christ to the jews,then WHY did they murder Him..?...I mean they are all EXPECTING HIm to appear - and when He does they reject Him - didnt Yahweh tell his priests what was happening..?...Who He was..?.. OF COURSE THEY KNEW - because Christ did miracles that none of yahwehs entourrage could match or even come close to attaining - so they knew for sure He IS Divine - so WHY did they kill Him..?... The only answer is because He said somehting vey threatening to them or their god - WAS a direct threat to both them and their god - and so they plotted to murder Him,under their gods influence,exactly and precisely as Yeshua laid out in John above,that conversation with the rabbis who question Him...He told them - "YOU are of the god of Abraham,and still you do NOT know my Father" - He then went on to say that indeed,the jewish god was a - "liar and murderer" indeed named this god precisely AS the "father of lies",warned the rabbis to their faces that their god was tricking and deceiving them into murdering Christ... INteresting - Yeshua has just told the jews their god is a liar,murderer,tricking and ecieving them all - FATHER OF LIES - isnt that a title assigned to the "devil" satan character..?...Christ then,has just told thejews that actually their own god is the one they should fear !! See how dangerous all this can get..?... STILL,they went ahead and murdered Him anyway.. WHY would He say any of that,if He was from THEIR god..?... Such things seem to get overlooked in the christian tradition - but honestly,if we wish to know Christ,we need to look honeastly at such things, answer these basic issues first - and this would be the heart of my own confusion here - it seems very very obvious - the god of the jews is NOT Our Father,supreme god of creation,that Yeshua taught us of..CANNOT BE - for me it comes down to either,trust Christ directly and fully,or trust the teaching of a man,priest,vicar,pope...Christ has already warned us that these people are purposefully misleading us - and this modern religion is merealy a continuation of that old one... I ABSOLUTELY trust in Christ - but as you can see,Iam having a great deal of trouble,trusting the words of men..A lot of the traditional doctrine just doesnt make sense - just doesn not work - as we see with Johns supposed salvation,one minute hes a saint,but still writng "herasy" under evil influence - its wholly contradictory all the way through...Believe in Christ to be saved,that is done deal,nothing more to add just bow down folow the church and trust them to lead us true,is THEIR position - yet Christ said directly,avoid the temple,the church and the priest,cultivate instead an INNER commnunion,BECOME me He said and do even more.. Im REALLY hoping someone here can help explain some of these issues...Sorry it just came out that way,like a rant - its all just soo AAAahhhhhhhhhhh !!!! Like it is so so vitally important - I MUST understand - a most basic error has been made - either by me or by those who taught me in ignorance - and the confuision here threatens to send me crazy...Without Christ and my Father,life is pretty irrelevant - to find His truth is the very purpose of our existance here..Id like to write a thread perhaps,adress point by point,many many discrepancies - but for now,these things come to mind - makes me question greatly - just WHO is truly worthy- and just WHAT are we worthy of..???? Edited May 25, 2015 by PeteC-UK Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steward George Posted May 25, 2015 Group: Steward Followers: 110 Topic Count: 10,465 Topics Per Day: 1.25 Content Count: 27,781 Content Per Day: 3.33 Reputation: 15,482 Days Won: 129 Joined: 06/30/2001 Status: Online Birthday: 09/21/1971 Steward Share Posted May 25, 2015 Pete -- you just need one more post then you have posting privileges across the site -- it's a 5 post rule before starting a topic outside of the Welcome thread to stop spammers. PeteC you said this -- Hmm...Didnt Yeshua though,actually say that we would do ALL that He had done,and yet MORE besides..?..And elsewhere - none bible - gospel of Thomas to be precise - He tells us very clearly,we are to BECOME Him,and it is THIS process that saves us - NOT His "death" and resurrection alone,but the SELF UNDERSTANDING that it brings to us - we are not saved by His death alone,nor by a simple prayer or ritual - we must UNDERSTAND who and what we are... The gospel of Thomas is a gnostic gospel, and these heresies were the ones John addressed in his 3 minor epistles which you read in 1,2, and 3rd John. What is gnosticism? As defined by Wikipedia -- Gnosticism (from Ancient Greek: γνωστικός gnostikos, "learned", from γνῶσις gnōsis, knowledge) describes a collection of ancient religions whose adherents shunned the material world – which they viewed as created by the demiurge – and embraced the spiritual world.[1] Gnostic ideas influenced many ancient religions[2] that teach that gnosis (variously interpreted as knowledge, enlightenment, salvation, emancipation or 'oneness with God') may be reached by practicing philanthropy to the point of personal poverty, sexual abstinence (as far as possible for hearers, entirely for initiates) and diligently searching for wisdom by helping others.[3] However, practices varied among those who were Gnostic. -- Source -- Wikipedia -- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gnosticism It's no wonder the confusion comes to light -- as you are reading two very different gospel messages! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ayin jade Posted May 25, 2015 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 44 Topic Count: 6,178 Topics Per Day: 0.87 Content Count: 43,795 Content Per Day: 6.20 Reputation: 11,243 Days Won: 58 Joined: 01/03/2005 Status: Offline Share Posted May 25, 2015 OK - so I have to ask - what of all the countless milions that lived here BEFORE YEshua took His mortal form..?...HOW did ANYONE ever come to the Father,is Christ is the ONLY way,and HIS DEATH is th eonly guarantee - this means before Him,all of mankind was lost and doomed.... Hebrews 11 will answer that question. Basically they were saved looking to the Lord, to the promise of the Messiah. Hebrews 11 1 ¶ Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen. 2 For by it the elders obtained a good report. 3 By faith we understand that the ages were framed by a word of God, so that the things being seen not to have come into being out of the things that appear. 4 ¶ By faith Abel offered to God a more excellent sacrifice than Cain, by which he obtained witness that he was righteous, God testifying of his gifts. And by it he, being dead, yet speaks. 5 By faith Enoch was translated so as not to see death, and he was not found, because God had translated him; for before his translation he had this testimony, that he pleased God. 6 But without faith it is impossible to please Him , for he who comes to God must believe that He is and that He is a rewarder of those who diligently seek Him. 7 By faith Noah, having been warned by God of things not yet seen, moved with fear, prepared an ark to the saving of his house, by which he condemned the world and became heir of the righteousness which is according to faith. 8 By faith Abraham obeyed when he was called to go out into a place which he was afterward going to receive for an inheritance. And he went out, not knowing where he went. 9 By faith he lived in the land of promise as a stranger, dwelling in tents with Isaac and Jacob, the heirs of the same promise with him. 10 For he looked for a city which has foundations, whose builder and maker is God. 11 By faith also Sarah herself received strength to conceive seed and was delivered of a child when she was past age, because she judged Him who had promised to be faithful. 12 Because of this came into being from one, and that of one having died, even as the stars of the sky in multitude, and as innumerable as the sand which is by the seashore. 13 These all died by way of faith, not having received the promises, but having seen them afar off. And they were persuaded of them and embraced them and confessed that they were strangers and pilgrims on the earth. 14 For they who say such things declare plainly that they seek a fatherland. 15 And truly, if they had been mindful of that country from which they came out, they might have had opportunity to have returned. 16 But now they stretch forth to a better fatherland , that is, a heavenly one. Therefore God is not ashamed to be called their God, for He has prepared a city for them. 17 By faith Abraham, being tested, offered up Isaac. And he who had received the promises offered up his only-begotten son , 18 of whom it was said that in Isaac your Seed shall be called, 19 concluding that God was able to raise him up, even from the dead, from where he even received him, in a figure. 20 By faith Isaac blessed Jacob and Esau concerning things to come. 21 By faith Jacob, when he was dying, blessed each of the sons of Joseph and worshiped, leaning upon the top of his staff. 22 By faith, Joseph dying remembered concerning the Exodus of the sons of Israel and gave orders concerning his bones. 23 By faith Moses, having been born, was hidden three months by his parents, because they saw he was a beautiful child. And they were not afraid of the king's commandments. 24 Having become great, Moses by faith refused to be called the son of Pharaoh's daughter, 25 choosing rather to suffer affliction with the people of God than to enjoy the pleasures of sin for a time, 26 esteeming the reproach of Christ greater riches than the treasures in Egypt, for he was looking to the reward. 27 By faith he left Egypt, not fearing the wrath of the king, for he endured as seeing Him who is invisible. 28 Through faith he kept the Passover and the sprinkling of blood, lest He who destroyed the first-born should touch them. 29 By faith they passed through the Red Sea as by dry land , which the Egyptians attempting to do were drowned. 30 By faith the walls of Jericho fell down, after they had been compassed seven days. 31 By faith the harlot Rahab did not perish with those who did not believe, when she had received the spies with peace. 32 ¶ And what more shall I say? For the time would fail me to tell of Gideon and Barak and Samson and Jephthah; also David, and Samuel and the prophets, 33 who through faith subdued kingdoms, wrought righteousness, obtained promises, stopped the mouths of lions, 34 quenched the violence of fire, escaped the edge of the sword, out of weakness were made strong, became valiant in fight, turned to flight the armies of the strangers. 35 Women received their dead raised to life again, and others were tortured, not accepting deliverance, that they might obtain a better resurrection. 36 And others had trial of cruel mockings and scourgings; yes, more, of bonds and imprisonments. 37 They were stoned, they were sawed in two, were tempted, were slain with the sword. They wandered about in sheepskins and goatskins, being destitute, afflicted, tormented. 38 The world was not worthy of them. They wandered in deserts and mountains and dens and caves of the earth. 39 And these all, having obtained a good report through faith, did not receive the promise, 40 for God had provided some better thing for us, that they should not be made perfect without us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ayin jade Posted May 25, 2015 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 44 Topic Count: 6,178 Topics Per Day: 0.87 Content Count: 43,795 Content Per Day: 6.20 Reputation: 11,243 Days Won: 58 Joined: 01/03/2005 Status: Offline Share Posted May 25, 2015 And what of al the other countless other faiths,religons and traditons..?..If god created us,then surely HE created us ALL - yet according to this,any who were born BEFORE Christ,stood absolutely no chance whatsoever of attaining "salvation" - impossible,for we are told that His death and His BLOOD are the means of redemption...Those poor Souls who came before Him,were doomed form the start,and god set it up that way..?..... Romans answers this question. Romans 1 19 because the thing which may be known of God is clearly revealed within them, for God revealed it to them. 20 For the unseen things of Him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being realized by the things that are made, even His eternal power and Godhead, for them to be without excuse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ayin jade Posted May 25, 2015 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 44 Topic Count: 6,178 Topics Per Day: 0.87 Content Count: 43,795 Content Per Day: 6.20 Reputation: 11,243 Days Won: 58 Joined: 01/03/2005 Status: Offline Share Posted May 25, 2015 The gospel of thomas contradicts the bible and is clearly in error. In the end of it, it states that women have to become men to get into heaven. Not like men. Become men. The other so called gospels that are not in the bible, that you seem to be reading, are known to be false. They contradict the bible, have errors in them related to geography or customs of the time they were supposedly written in etc. Stick with reading the bible if you want to get to know the Lord. You said that Christ is everything to you, and thats great. But who is Jesus in your understanding? I ask this since you seem to be reading more than the bible in your search for understanding. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hippie333 Posted May 26, 2015 Group: Royal Member Followers: 15 Topic Count: 114 Topics Per Day: 0.03 Content Count: 1,236 Content Per Day: 0.29 Reputation: 673 Days Won: 1 Joined: 10/24/2012 Status: Offline Birthday: 12/18/1970 Share Posted May 26, 2015 Shalom Pete....if I may make a suggestion to you? Please slow down and maybe put up one question/ issue at a time so it is easier for them to be addressed and discussed. When things are so long and so full of so many different facets of discussion...keeping things easy to read and discuss becomes hard for even the most intent to give you the answers you seek. God Bless, Hip Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wingnut- Posted May 26, 2015 Group: Royal Member Followers: 39 Topic Count: 101 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 7,673 Content Per Day: 1.31 Reputation: 7,358 Days Won: 67 Joined: 04/22/2008 Status: Offline Share Posted May 26, 2015 I ABSOLUTELY trust in Christ - but as you can see,Iam having a great deal of trouble,trusting the words of men..A lot of the traditional doctrine just doesnt make sense - just doesn not work - as we see with Johns supposed salvation,one minute hes a saint,but still writng "herasy" under evil influence - its wholly contradictory all the way through...Believe in Christ to be saved,that is done deal,nothing more to add just bow down folow the church and trust them to lead us true,is THEIR position - yet Christ said directly,avoid the temple,the church and the priest,cultivate instead an INNER commnunion,BECOME me He said and do even more.. Well since these are the issues in question, can you tell me where I find the two things bolded above in scripture? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xyluz Posted June 12, 2015 Group: Senior Member Followers: 6 Topic Count: 47 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 565 Content Per Day: 0.11 Reputation: 527 Days Won: 0 Joined: 05/23/2010 Status: Offline Share Posted June 12, 2015 Worthy was a ministry founded on the verse -- "Luke 21:36 Watch ye therefore, and pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy to escape all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man." The ministry was initially simply -- Worthy News. We equip watchman -- to watch -- and provide the prayer points for the day -- in our Worthy Briefs that we send out across the world. Finally we're equipping saints that they may be "accounted worthy" to escape all of these things! God bless, George It would be nice to have this written somewhere on the site... i would have love to know this. And i'm sure it will be answer to some future questions... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts