1John 3:9 What does it mean?

[Bible2]

Willa said in post 19:

 

We trust Him to complete the work He has begun in us.

 

Philippians 1:6 does mean God will complete the work which he has begun in saved people. But other passages show he will do this only if they continue to cooperate with him, work along with him (1 Corinthians 3:9; 2 Corinthians 5:9, Colossians 1:29, Philippians 2:12, Philippians 3:12-14), and don't wrongly employ their free will to, for example, become utterly lazy without repentance, to the ultimate loss of their salvation (Matthew 25:26,30, John 15:2a, Romans 2:6-8).

 

Willa said in post 19:

 

We don't have to continually look over our shoulders in fear.

 

Believers are commanded to fear God (1 Peter 2:17, Luke 12:5, Hebrews 12:28-29; 2 Corinthians 7:1, Ephesians 5:21, Acts 9:31). They must remain in fear of being cut off the same as unbelievers if they don't continue in God's goodness (Romans 11:20-22, Luke 12:45-46). They must work out their own ultimate salvation with fear and trembling (Philippians 2:12b; 1 Peter 1:17, Romans 2:6-8), knowing the terror of the future judgment of believers by Jesus (2 Corinthians 5:10-11) at his 2nd coming, when some believers will end up losing their salvation because of such things as unrepentant sin (Luke 12:45-46, Hebrews 10:26-29), unrepentant laziness (Matthew 25:26,30, John 15:2a), or apostasy (Mark 8:35-38, Hebrews 6:4-8).

 

Satan would love to deceive believers into not having this fear of God, for Satan knows that it is the lack of a fear of God which keeps people in unrepentant sin (Psalms 36:1, Psalms 10:13), and that it is by the fear of God that people depart from sin (Proverbs 16:6b, Proverbs 14:27, Proverbs 3:7). And Satan can make his deceptions appear as if they are on the side of good (2 Corinthians 11:14), when in fact his deceptions reject the sound doctrine of the Bible (1 Timothy 4:1; 2 Timothy 4:3-4), when the whole Bible is taken into consideration, instead of just taking a verse by itself and trying to misapply it (e.g. Matthew 4:6).

 

Some believers mistakenly think they shouldn't have any fear of God, because they misunderstand, for example, 1 John 4:18 and 2 Timothy 1:7. But it is only if saved people perfectly love God that they won't misbehave (1 John 5:3, John 14:21-24), and so they won't have any fear of any impending punishment from God for any misbehavior (1 John 4:18). But if they become so wicked they lose their fear of God (Psalms 36:1, Psalms 10:13), and so continue to misbehave without repentance, then they do need to fear impending punishment from God in the form of temporal chastening (Hebrews 12:6). And if they refuse to repent even after receiving temporal chastening (Revelation 3:19, Revelation 2:21), then they need to fear God's ability to ultimately cast them into hell (Luke 12:5) for their unrepentant misbehavior (Hebrews 10:26-29, Luke 12:45-46).

 

When 2 Timothy 1:7 says God hasn't given believers the spirit of fear, the original Greek word (deilia: G1167) means "timidity", and the context means believers aren't to be timid before men (cf. Proverbs 28:1), out of some shame about the gospel (2 Timothy 1:8), or some fear of suffering affliction from men for preaching the gospel (2 Timothy 1:8b, Luke 12:4, Hebrews 13:6). So 2 Timothy 1:7 means God hasn't given believers the spirit of the fear of men (Proverbs 29:25, Matthew 10:28). God has given believers the Spirit of the fear of God (Matthew 10:28b, Isaiah 11:2, Romans 11:20-22, Romans 2:6-8, Philippians 2:12b; 1 Peter 1:17, 1 Peter 2:17, Hebrews 10:26-29, Hebrews 12:28-29, 2 Corinthians 7:1, Ephesians 5:21, Acts 9:31). But believers can nonetheless wrongly employ their free will to quench the Spirit (1 Thessalonians 5:19), and so they can wrongly lose their fear of God (Romans 11:20-22).

 

Willa said in post 19:

 

Saving faith is the kind of faith that produces good fruit.

 

Note that Matthew 7:16-20 isn't contradicting that truly saved people can wrongly employ their free will to bring forth some corrupt fruit, as in some unrepentant sinful actions, to the ultimate loss of their salvation (Luke 12:45-46, Hebrews 10:26-29; 1 Corinthians 9:27). Similarly, Matthew 7:16-20 isn't contradicting that truly saved people can wrongly employ their free will to fail to bring forth good fruit, as in becoming utterly lazy without repentance, to the ultimate loss of their salvation (Matthew 25:26,30, John 15:2a, Romans 2:6-8).

 

Instead, regarding truly saved people, Matthew 7:16-20 is simply showing how to determine whether an initially saved person is "good" or has wrongly employed his free will to return to being corrupt (2 Peter 2:20-22).

 

Willa said in post 19:

 

It is not dead philosophy or purely intellectual.

 

While faith isn't purely intellectual, it likewise mustn't be based solely on heart feelings, which can be very deceptive (Jeremiah 17:9, Proverbs 28:26, Proverbs 14:12). Instead, faith must be both a matter of the heart and a rational/intellectual enterprise. For saving faith requires mental assent (Philippians 3:15-16, Romans 12:2; 2 Corinthians 4:4; 2 Timothy 2:25, Romans 8:6) to correct (i.e. Biblical) doctrine (2 Timothy 3:16 to 4:4; 1 Timothy 4:16; 2 John 1:9-10; 1 Timothy 6:3, Titus 1:9) and continuing to remember that doctrine (1 Corinthians 15:2; 2 Peter 3:1-2; 2 Corinthians 11:3).

 

For example, in order for people to be saved, they must believe (and continue to believe to the end: Hebrews 3:6,12,14, Colossians 1:23; 1 Corinthians 15:2) the correct doctrine that Jesus of Nazareth is the Christ and the human/divine Son of God (John 20:31, John 3:36, 1 John 2:23), and that he died on the Cross for our sins and physically resurrected from the dead on the 3rd day (1 Corinthians 15:1-4, Luke 24:39,46,47, Matthew 20:19, Matthew 26:28).

[Larry 2]

 

1John 3:

9 No one who is born of God will continue to sin, because God’s seed remains in him; he cannot go on sinning, because he has been born of God.

10  This is how we know who the children of God are and who the children of the devil are: Anyone who does not do what is right is not a child of God; nor is anyone who does not love his brother.

 

What does verse 9 means? Just for starters, the fact that verse 10 indicates that verse 9 is something visible, even measureable to the point of distinguishing children of God from children of the devil eliminates interpretations like this is referring to something merely internal to those born of God. 

 

Nor is it referring to perfect behavior, as 1John 2:1;1:8,10; not to mention Gal 5:17 all indicate those born of God will sin from time to time.

 

What I find interesting about 1John is that in the Greek whenever John is referring to lifestyle he uses the present tense. And whenever John is referring to a snapshot event, or a behavior uncharacteristic of the person, he uses the aorist (which we don't have in English and so you lose something in the translation).

 

In this case John is saying that sinning is uncharacteristic of those born of God, not denying that it doesn't occur uncharactertically from time to time. Those born of God don't live a lifestyle of sin. And this is a distinguishing mark of those born of God. Thus when Paul says, "Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor homosexuals, nor sodomites, nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners will inherit the kingdom of God." 1Cor 6:9,10 it is not that salvation is contingent upon one's behavior, but rather that there simply doesn't exists any such person who lives a lifestyle of sin who has been born of God.

 

.

When our Father sees us, we have already been judged as the righteousness of God in Christ Jesus.

 

1 Jn 3:9  Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

1 Jn 5:18  We know that whosoever is born of God sinneth not; but he that is begotten of God (Jesus) keepeth himself, and that wicked one toucheth him not.

 

2 Tim 2:13  If we believe not, yet he abideth faithful: he cannot deny himself. We are Jesus’ body He cannot deny.  Col 1:18  He is the head of the body, the church.

2 Cor 5:21  For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.

 

Heb 10:10  By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.

Heb 10:14  For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified.

 

Blessings in Christ Jesus.

[Bible2]

Larry 2 said in post 22:

 

1 Jn 3:9  Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.
1 Jn 5:18  We know that whosoever is born of God sinneth not; but he that is begotten of God (Jesus) keepeth himself, and that wicked one toucheth him not.

 

1 John 3:9 and 1 John 5:18 mean the initial salvation of people will be accompanied by them repenting from their sins and not continuing in them, at least for a while. What 1 John 3:9 and 1 John 5:18 don't mean is initially saved people lose their free will and become robots, unable to ever choose, sometime subsequent to their initial salvation and repentance, to commit a sin without ever repenting from it. For other verses show it is possible for initially saved people to do that, to the ultimate loss of their salvation (Hebrews 10:26-29; 1 Corinthians 9:27, Luke 12:45-46).

 

Larry 2 said in post 22:

 

2 Tim 2:13  If we believe not, yet he abideth faithful: he cannot deny himself.

 

2 Timothy 2:13 means if saved people come to believe not (Luke 8:13; 1 Timothy 4:1; 2 Timothy 4:3-4, Matthew 13:21), if they come to commit apostasy (2 Thessalonians 2:3), it doesn't affect God's faithfulness to himself, for he can't deny himself. But he will deny saved people who commit apostasy (2 Timothy 2:12), to the ultimate loss of their salvation (Hebrews 6:4-8, John 15:6, Mark 8:35-38).

 

Larry 2 said in post 22:

 

Heb 10:10  By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.
Heb 10:14  For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified.

 

Hebrews 10:10,14 means the once-for-all-time offering of Jesus' body on the Cross has sanctified and perfected believers. But the perfect tense doesn't denote permanence. For example, if someone says in the perfect tense: "I have washed my child", this doesn't mean the child has been made permanently clean. For after having been washed, the child can wrongly employ his free will to go out and play in the mud. Similarly, washed believers (1 Corinthians 6:11) can wrongly employ their free will to go back to wallowing in the mire of sin without repentance (2 Peter 2:20-22; 2 Corinthians 12:20-21), to the ultimate loss of their salvation (Hebrews 10:26-29; 1 Corinthians 9:27; Luke 12:45-46). Also, the "forever" in Hebrews 10:14 doesn't denote a permanent perfection, but means the once-for-all-time offering of Jesus is perpetually applied in the ongoing and eternal process by which believers are "being sanctified" (Hebrews 10:14, see the original Greek tense), so long as they are repenting from and confessing to God every sin they commit (1 John 1:9,7, Hebrews 10:26-29).

[Larry 2]

 

Larry 2 said in post 22:

 

1 Jn 3:9  Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

1 Jn 5:18  We know that whosoever is born of God sinneth not; but he that is begotten of God (Jesus) keepeth himself, and that wicked one toucheth him not.

 

1 John 3:9 and 1 John 5:18 mean the initial salvation of people will be accompanied by them repenting from their sins and not continuing in them, at least for a while. What 1 John 3:9 and 1 John 5:18 don't mean is initially saved people lose their free will and become robots, unable to ever choose, sometime subsequent to their initial salvation and repentance, to commit a sin without ever repenting from it. For other verses show it is possible for initially saved people to do that, to the ultimate loss of their salvation (Hebrews 10:26-29; 1 Corinthians 9:27, Luke 12:45-46).

 

 

 

Larry 2 said in post 22:

 

2 Tim 2:13  If we believe not, yet he abideth faithful: he cannot deny himself.

 

2 Timothy 2:13 means if saved people come to believe not (Luke 8:13; 1 Timothy 4:1; 2 Timothy 4:3-4, Matthew 13:21), if they come to commit apostasy (2 Thessalonians 2:3), it doesn't affect God's faithfulness to himself, for he can't deny himself. But he will deny saved people who commit apostasy (2 Timothy 2:12), to the ultimate loss of their salvation (Hebrews 6:4-8, John 15:6, Mark 8:35-38).

 

 

 

Larry 2 said in post 22:

 

Heb 10:10  By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.

Heb 10:14  For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified.

 

Hebrews 10:10,14 means the once-for-all-time offering of Jesus' body on the Cross has sanctified and perfected believers. But the perfect tense doesn't denote permanence. For example, if someone says in the perfect tense: "I have washed my child", this doesn't mean the child has been made permanently clean. For after having been washed, the child can wrongly employ his free will to go out and play in the mud. Similarly, washed believers (1 Corinthians 6:11) can wrongly employ their free will to go back to wallowing in the mire of sin without repentance (2 Peter 2:20-22; 2 Corinthians 12:20-21), to the ultimate loss of their salvation (Hebrews 10:26-29; 1 Corinthians 9:27; Luke 12:45-46). Also, the "forever" in Hebrews 10:14 doesn't denote a permanent perfection, but means the once-for-all-time offering of Jesus is perpetually applied in the ongoing and eternal process by which believers are "being sanctified" (Hebrews 10:14, see the original Greek tense), so long as they are repenting from and confessing to God every sin they commit (1 John 1:9,7, Hebrews 10:26-29).

 

Your illustration of continuing to wash the baby is fact, thus the continuing work of the Holy Spirit. 

Eph 5:26  That He might sanctify and cleanse it with the washing of water by the word, 

Joh 13:10  Jesus saith to him, He that is washed needeth not save to wash his feet, but is clean every whit: and ye are clean, but not all. 

 

To me we are clean in Christ, but our walk to having God's best is ongoing. Eph 2:10  For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

And even when we submit to God's work we cannot claim the credit, Php 2:13  For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure. 

And then even any work we may accomplish in Christ, according to 1 Cor 3:7  So then neither is he that planteth any thing, neither he that watereth; but God that giveth the increase. 

 

I think our different views is the way we see the finished work of Christ as to our eternal salvation. I think Paul effectively fought to have God's best as he did all he did to win Christ as his bridegroom in Php 3:8  Yea doubtless, and I count all things but loss for the excellency of the knowledge of Christ Jesus my Lord: for whom I have suffered the loss of all things, and do count them but dung, that I may win Christ, 

 

Blessings in Christ Jesus.

 

 

[Kan]

The old faith v's works argument can go on for ages without any solid conclusion because we are typically self observant whether we claim to walk by faith or are conscious of works or both.

 

So there is truth to both sides of the argument, because we need to drop some of the things which only have to do with self consciousness, and weigh that in on being God conscious.

At the same time we cannot fool ourselves and think that our actions are not relevant in salvation.

 

Underneath it all, we want something that works for us, hopefully something which comes more natural and has more sense to it, and gets results. We would give up doing certain training exercises to get fit, if they did not work. We want results, and Jesus will get them for us.

 

Looking at ourselves, gives us either fear or a false idea of our condition, which fortunately Christ undoes by life for our sake, so that we may have our imaginations cast down by reality.

We need healing from self deception, so that we can love with sincerity and confidence.

 

One of the works of Christ as our high priest is to give us a realistic view of our personality, character and spiritual health. And He does not do it all at once, otherwise we'd be seriously discouraged.

The aim of this sanctification is to bring about a new person, who is authentic, honest and practically loving. These characteristics are not imagined but real, they are real works produced by Christ in the believer.

These are the fruits which God is looking for, and if we have accepted the Lordship and deliverance in Christ, God counts us as His own, now and forever, unless we depart in unbelief.

 

Unbelief has two hands, those who start looking at their own works, and those who presume that they have nothing to face.

 

The question is, if Christ is the one who does the works in us, why can't He just do them, and have it over with?

He would like that very much and take us home, but our will has been weakened and corrupted, by our inheritance, cultivated habits and life's circumstances. This has to be reversed, undone and changed, and it means facing small issues at stake in our lives day by day. Our decision making has to be strengthened, so that by habit we resist evil and choose the good, until we find sin repulsive and degrading, and our love for the Lord is so strong, that like Joseph we will be able to naturally decline sinful offers.

 

We are judged by our works, but by God, who looks at the motives - the heart, and not just the outward by which we and others judge ourselves. Paul said "judge nothing until the time."

 

Here is where we can trust in the Lord to judge us, because the heart is deceitful above all things, it will tell us lies about our progress, so let's leave it up to the Lord, and expect that He will do the job of refining us after the example of Christ, and never look back like Peter did while walking on water, taking his eyes off Jesus and sinking in attention seeking.

 

Are we judged by our works? Yes.

Does faith produce a new heart that pleases God? Absolutely.

Are we perfect? No

Can Jesus be trusted to save us from all sin? Yes.

The aim of the christian life is to be filled with the Holy Spirit and live without sin, that's what John is a witness to. But the aim of God is enduring and strong, and that is what we count on, whereas our aim can't last past Monday.

If we are the ones who have to be strong then we are in trouble. Is not the strength of God made perfect in weakness?

God so loved the world to die for them, and He so loves the world that He will sanctify them too.

 

If we feel a desperate need for a new character, if we see that we are out of order, and impatient, and vengeful, and have a history of a lack of commitment, it is a sure sign that the Holy Spirit has successfully removed self deception. God is always honest.

So in humility we pray earnestly for Jesus to not give up on us, but to be merciful, if not for our sake, then for the sake of them that we impact every day by our words and actions. God cannot resist that call for help.

[Retrobyter]

Shabbat shalom, folks.

 

Listen, please. The answer to this dilemma is that “salvation” is the WRONG WORD! The biblical word for being right with God is to be “JUSTIFIED BY GOD!"

 

It’s not “OSAS”; it’s “OJBGAJBG!” It’s not “Once Saved, Always Saved”; it’s “Once Justified By God, Always Justified By God!"
 

As I quoted in another thread,

 

Romans 8:26-39

26 Likewise the Spirit also helpeth our infirmities: for we know not what we should pray for as we ought: but the Spirit itself maketh intercession for us with groanings which cannot be uttered.

27 And he that searcheth the hearts knoweth what is the mind of the Spirit, because he maketh intercession for the saints according to the will of God.

28 And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose.

29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.

30 Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.

31 What shall we then say to these things? If God be for us, who can be against us?

32 He that spared not his own Son, but delivered him up for us all, how shall he not with him also freely give us all things?

33 Who shall lay any thing to the charge of God's elect? It is God that justifieth.

34 Who is he that condemneth? It is Christ that died, yea rather, that is risen again, who is even at the right hand of God, who also maketh intercession for us.

35 Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? shall tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword?

36 As it is written, For thy sake we are killed all the day long; we are accounted as sheep for the slaughter.

37 Nay, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him that loved us.

38 For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come,

39 Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.

KJV

 

 

Remember Yeshua`s parable?

 

Luke 18:9-14

9 And he spake this parable unto certain which trusted in themselves that they were righteous, and despised others:

10 Two men went up into the temple to pray; the one a Pharisee, and the other a publican.

11 The Pharisee stood and prayed thus with himself, God, I thank thee, that I am not as other men are, extortioners, unjust, adulterers, or even as this publican.

12 I fast twice in the week, I give tithes of all that I possess.

13 And the publican, standing afar off, would not lift up so much as his eyes unto heaven, but smote upon his breast, saying, God be merciful to me a sinner.

14 I tell you, this man went down to his house justified rather than the other: for every one that exalteth himself shall be abased; and he that humbleth himself shall be exalted.

KJV

 

And, it should not be the Epistle to the Romans that provides the “Plan of ‘Salvation’” but Paul’s 2nd Epistle to the Corinthians (chapter 5):

 

2 Corinthians 5:14-21

14 For the love of Christ constraineth us; because we thus judge, that if one died for all, then were all dead:

15 And that he died for all, that they which live should not henceforth live unto themselves, but unto him which died for them, and rose again.

16 Wherefore henceforth know we no man after the flesh: yea, though we have known Christ after the flesh, yet now henceforth know we him no more.

17 Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.

18 And all things are of God, who hath reconciled us to himself (who himself has exchanged places with us) by Jesus Christ (Yeshua` the Messiah), and hath given to us the ministry of reconciliation (exchanging places);

19 To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself (God in the Messiah was exchanging places with the world), not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation (exchanging places).

20 Now then we are ambassadors for Christ, as though God did beseech you by us: we pray you in Christ’s (the Messiah’s) stead, be ye reconciled to God (exchange places with God).

21 For he (God the Father) hath made him (the Messiah) to be sin for us, who (the Messiah) knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God (the Father) in him (the Messiah).

KJV

 

The words “reconciled”,  “reconciliation” (vs 18), “reconciling,” “reconciliation” (vs. 19), and “reconciled” (vs. 20) are the Greek words “katallaxantos,” “katallagees” (vs. 18), “katallassoon,” “katallagees” (vs. 19), and “katallageete” (vs 20) from katallagee (NT:2643) and katallassoo” (NT:2644):

 

NT:2643 katallagee (kat-al-lag-ay'); from NT:2644; exchange (figuratively, adjustment), i.e. restoration to (the divine) favor:

KJV - atonement, reconciliation (-ing).

 

NT:2644 katallassoo (kat-al-las'-so); from NT:2596 and NT:236; to change mutually, i.e. (figuratively) to compound a difference:

KJV - reconcile.

 

(Biblesoft's New Exhaustive Strong's Numbers and Concordance with Expanded Greek-Hebrew Dictionary. Copyright © 1994, 2003, 2006 Biblesoft, Inc. and International Bible Translators, Inc.)

 

That "exchange of places" or "trading places” is how God justifies an individual.

 

The Messiah became OUR sin (on the cross), and

We become God’s righteousness (in the Messiah).

 

It’s not a fair trade, but it is a JUST trade. And, by this trade, we are “justified by God."

[Kan]

Once again a glimpse of the Gospel that staggers the mind. Lord how great you are, how kind to do this for us. Such Grace.

[Your closest friendnt]

This is a trouth story.

I had a very provocative friend,who would ask people in the church, this question:

Who can I go to hell? This is the list of the answers.

Don't repent, don't read the bible, don't go to church, don't take communion, don't be Baptise, don't pay tithes, unconfess sins, divorce, don't love Jesus, and so on...,,,,,

another one commit suicide and most of those churches proffers "saved by faith, without works"

I said, why don't you ask me? He said, not you, they sat you are lost. That's right, I am lost to them, but not to Christ, he said you need a reference letter from them, Jesus will ask them if you were a good Christian and if they say NO, he will sent you to HELL.

I said to him, because you are a believer, the only way for you to go to HELL is to denied your faith.