A Long Hair, Tattoo Pastor

[Guest Butero]

I am not under a Nazarite vow Patriot.  Most people in Old and New Testament times were not Nazarites.  King David was not a Nazarite, but he was a man after God's own heart.  None of the disciples were Nazarites.  I am clearly not a Nazarite.

 

Leviticus 19:28

 

Ye shall not make any cuttings in your flesh for the dead, nor print any marks upon you:  I am the Lord.

 

There are two things in this verse I am not to do.  I am not to make cuttings in my flesh for the dead and I am not to print marks on me.  They are both heathen practices, and as I said, I believe that the Lord revealed to me why the tattoo craze of today is taking place.  I won't take any chances on this.  Highly speculative?  Who cares?  If there is any concern at all in me that this verse could apply to me, and all the Lord is asking is that I don't print marks on my body, I am more than happy to obey. 

[Guest Butero]

BTW Patriot, when did you take your Nazarite vow, and are you following it completely?  If you are defiled by the dead, have you shaved your hair and started over?  Do you ever drink alcohol?  You clearly are not a Nazarite. 

[The_Patriot21]

look closely at my picture butero, and you tell me. the goal with above post to bring out a point. The "law" has its place, there is no doubt, but there comes a point where it goes to far. When it goes to far is when it trumps grace. Another problem with excessive legalism, is that if you wanted to live by it, you can make the Bible say anything you want, and you can have conflicting lines of "legalism" to follow. You can follow levitical law, you can only follow NT law, you can follow the nazerite law, following any of them, is missing the point of grace. Grace, is the glue that ties it altogether.

[alphaparticle]

26“You shall not eat any flesh with the blood in it. You shall not interpret omens or tell fortunes. 27You shall not round off the hair on your temples or mar the edges of your beard. 28You shall not make any cuts on your body for the dead or tattoo yourselves: I am the Lord.

29“Do not profane your daughter by making her a prostitute, lest the land fall into prostitution and the land become full of depravity. 30You shall keep my Sabbaths and reverence my sanctuary: I am the Lord.

 

Okay. Looking at verse 29, I think you could make many solid arguments that making your daughter a prostitute is sinful on many levels. But I would not use v 29 here to make the case, because, you should not due it because "the land" could become full of depravity. The land, here, in v 29, is Israel. The context of these verses has to do with the Israelite people and the land of Israel. That is what all of these laws are about. To argue any of these straightforwardly applies to believers in general you need to make the case.

[LadyKay]

 

I have gone the extra mile for the sake of others, like getting rid of a mustache I used to have because some were offended by it in a Holiness church I was pastoring,

They were offended by your mustache? I am sorry but I think some things are just beyond my understanding. How on earth could anyone be offended by a mustache? I am sorry I can not understand if a person is clearly a person of God and this is shown through he's actions, why would a follow brother or sister in Christ be a offended by a mustache? I mean didn't Jesus have a beard? I don't get it, I really don't. 

 

 

because it was an unnecessary obstacle to my ministry.

But it would not be an obstacle for some people. It would not be for me. If you talked to be about Jesus and you had a mustache I would not consider  it a reason to not accept what you say. But see this goes along with my point. God maybe calling someone to go to this place and talk to these people. He maybe calling someone to go somewhere else and talk to some different people. So who are we to criticize a person's hair? For what do we know about what God has called this person to do or who to talk too?

[Guest Butero]

@ The Patriot.  I know you are not a Nazarite Patriot, but you said you were and all Christians are, so I had to ask. 

 

@ Alphaparticle.  You wanted to take a look at a few verses together there in Leviticus 19:26-29.  Lets do that.

 

26  Ye shall not eat anything with the blood:  neither shall ye use enchantment, nor observe times.

 

I believe in following that.  In the book of Acts, we are told not to eat blood.  That was one of the things specifically given to gentiles not to do.  I don't believe we should cast spells and follow horoscopes. 

 

27  Ye shall not round the corners of your head, neither shalt thou mar the corners of thy beard.

 

To me, that would mean some kind of circular haircut or cutting your beard in a way where you are rounding the corners.  I am not fully sure exactly what is meant here, but I wouldn't ignore it.  I do try to avoid anything I might do that would be violating it.  I have thought about what it might look to have a goatie, but since that seems to be rounding the corners of my beard, I won't even entertain the thought.  I would have to be sure it was ok, and I have gotten used to being clean shaven.

 

28  Ye shall not make any cuttings in your flesh for the dead, nor print any marks upon you:  I am the LORD.

 

I wouldn't dream of doing either of these things.  No cuttings for the dead or tattoos.

 

29  Do not prostitute thy daughter, to cause her to be a whore; lest the land fall to whoredom, and the land become full of wickedness.

 

Once again, there is no way I would prostitute my daughter.  I believe I should observe all of these things, so I don't see your point.  I don't even know why anyone would think it is ok to do these things.  They are all separate and unrelated ordinances, so it is not clear that the tattoos spoken of here have any particular context dealing with pagan worship.  It is just one ordinance after another, and for me personally, I believe we should observe all of them that were listed here.

 

@ LadyKay.  You have to remember the type of church I was part of.  I was Pastor of a Holiness church.  Many people in holiness circles believe that facial hair is wrong, because they look at it as long hair.  I personally can see that point being made with a long beard, like some people have, but some think all facial hair on a man is wrong.  A visitor pointed that out to me, and I went home and thought about it.  I had no convictions about it whatsoever, and had had a mustache since I was old enough to grow one.  It was something I wanted to keep, but to end the controversy, I shaved it off.  I was really bothered by it for a while.  As crazy as it sounds, it was like I gave up part of myself, but over time, I got used to it being gone.  Recently, my wife made a comment about how I would look if I had it back, so I grew it back, and decided I didn't really like it anymore, so I shaved it off again after a couple of months.  If you have never been part of conservative Independent Baptist Churches or Holiness or Apostolic Churches or even some Wesleyan Churches, you wouldn't understand the many things people have issues with.  I have know of churches where men having a short sleeved shirt on was wrong.  I was part of a Holiness congregation, and to be even somewhat effective, I had to have a certain look.  Again, it seemed like more of a big deal than it turned out to be. 

[FresnoJoe]

?

 

For all of you who were baptized into Christ have clothed yourselves with Christ. Galatians 3:27 (NASB)

 

~

 

There is a difference in righteous clothing and spiritual clothing.... 

The spiritual clothing is what....

God will give us in...

the next life....

 

 

Today

 

Therefore do not be anxious, saying, ‘What shall we eat?’ or ‘What shall we drink?’ or ‘What shall we wear?’ For the Gentiles seek after all these things, and your heavenly Father knows that you need them all. But seek first the kingdom of God and his righteousness, and all these things will be added to you. “Therefore do not be anxious about tomorrow, for tomorrow will be anxious for itself. Sufficient for the day is its own trouble. Matthew 6:31-34 (ESV)

 

I Think

 

It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life. John 6:63

 

I've Got It

 

Love not the world,

neither the things that are in the world.

If any man love the world, the love of the Father is not in him.
For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes,

and the pride of life, is not of the Father, but is of the world.

And the world passeth away, and the lust thereof:

but he that doeth the will of God

abideth for ever. 1 John 2:15-17

 

~

 

As for the one who is weak in faith, welcome him, but not to quarrel over opinions. One person believes he may eat anything, while the weak person eats only vegetables. Let not the one who eats despise the one who abstains, and let not the one who abstains pass judgment on the one who eats, for God has welcomed him.

 

Who are you to pass judgment on the servant of another? It is before his own master that he stands or falls.

And he will be upheld, for the Lord is able to make him stand.John 14:1-4 (ESV)

 

~

 

Be Blessed Beloved Of The KING

 

I write unto you, little children, because your sins are forgiven you for his name's sake. 1 John 2:12

 

Love, Your Brother Joe

[alien224]

People said the same things about John the Baptist.

[LadyKay]

 

but some think all facial hair on a man is wrong.

 

While I respect the believes of others, I do not see any Bible basses that says having a beard is wrong. While you would not attend a church that had a pastor with long hair or allowed women in pants. I would not attend a church that made the rule that having a beard is wrong. Not because I am a fan of beards, but because I think that such a teaching is not Biblical. So you see, we are not so different. As you choice to follow what you believe to be Biblical just as I do.

[Guest Butero]

@ Fresno Joe, none of your scriptures address the things I asked you.  Not worrying has nothing to do with our spiritual clothing.  It has to do with not worrying about provision.  Loving the things of the world has nothing to do with the topic at hand.   You are correct about what Romans says about not receiving someone to doubtful disputations, but you completely ignored the fact we aren't to do things that offend others, and we can condemn our own selves for doing so.  Everyone conveniently loves to ignore that.  The passage I gave you tells me to judge whether or not it is comely for a woman to pray with her head uncovered, so by the authority of scripture I make a judgment in this area.  As I said before FJ, I am more than willing to debate the entire passage with you or anyone else verse by verse if they wish to do so, but I don't see you willing to do that.  You are taking a small part of what I say, and then giving a bunch of scriptures, many that have nothing to do with what we are discussing or that are out of context, and writing a response. 

 

@ Lady Kay.  I understand what you are saying.  The reason I wouldn't attend a church where the Pastor has long hair is because I see the long hair on a man as in violation of scripture.  The same goes with a church where women in pants are the norm, especially at church.  It is not based on personal preference, but I see it as violating God's Word.  I don't normally avoid a church for what they don't allow.  I actually can conform to get along if need be.  I am more likely to stay away from a church for allowing things I find unbiblical.  Lets take something silly to me like requiring all to have long sleeve shirts, even in the heat of the summer.  If I really wanted to go there, I would wear a long sleeve shirt in July and go to church so as not to offend anyone.  Something like that wouldn't keep me away.  Even so, I do understand the point you are making about how we are all serving God according to our conscience.  Whether you realize it or not, what you are describing is how we are to work out our own salvation with fear and trembling.  That is exactly what we are to do. 

 

In this thread, you asked us a question about what we would do in a certain situation, and I answered you, and then I got jumped on repeatedly.  I don't know if people think that if they keep up the attacks long enough, they will force everyone to change their mind, or they will just get weary with the debate and leave, but I don't plan to do either.  My mind is made up, and I think most of the people here have a point of view they are holding to.  I saw what you wrote in your posts, and I didn't take any issue with it.  I understand what you are saying.  You are recognizing we don't all see things the same way.  If everyone could get that, and understand they cannot intimidate or scare others into accepting everything they or someone they know may be doing, we might at least get along better. 

 

@ Alien, when did anyone ever say anything about John The Baptist having long hair and tattoos all over his body?  I would love to see the scripture you have to back that up.