Defense of the Post-Trib / Pre-Wrath Position

[DeighAnn]

8 minutes ago, Diaste said:

I don't think we know much about the 1st half of the week as that isn't as clear as the second half.

I think it's pretty clear Jesus told us what will happen in the 2nd half.

The A of D, then a time where all the elect are in danger of dying a physical death, then those days immediately following the A of D, called great tribulation such as was not nor ever will be, will be cut short; short of the end of the week. Then the gathering occurs and Jesus fights His enemies. 

Post trib is post GT, not post end of the week. That is also pre-wrath as wrath begins when the day of GT are cut short of the end of the last half of the week.

No seals have yet been opened. But it's coming. Soon.

 

 THE SEALS WERE OPENED 2000 YEARS AGO  we are just waiting for 6th seal events to begin and they begin with

TRIBULATION STILL WORKING UNDERGROUND
I agree 1st half not much but the 'beast rising up from the sea'
but my understanding goes more like

TRIBULATION OF SATAN COMES TO LIGHT
2nd 1/2
deadly wound
2 witness arrive PROPHECY 1260 DAYS
Satan and angels arrive heal wound the 'hour' they receive kingdoms 42 MONTHS
whole world BEGIN TO worship
image set up FALSE PROPHET - FALLING AWAY - DAILY SACRIFICE TO GOD STOPS
Christians up for trial
Satan stand where He ought not
2 witnesses killed - witnesses raised up voice in heaven HEARD

HEAVEN OPENS and same hour earthquake

GREAT TRIBULATION SUCH AS  HAS BEEN NEVER SEEN AND NEVER WILL 
 AKA  DAY OF VENGEANCE - WRATH OF THE LAMB

 VIALS POURED OUT
BIRDS FEED ON CARCASS
GREAT WINE PRESS FILLED
KILLED WITH THE SWORD
FLESH CONSUMES OFF BODIES
CHRIST AND ARMIES 
DEAD RISE
ALIVE AND REMAINING CAUGHT UP
KINGDOM SET UP

We are a bit off but not too much I don't think.  I think if you put it in Scripture order and I did the same it could get worked out.  You go first 

[Uriah]

8 hours ago, DeighAnn said:

Were the seals or were not the seals opened around 2000 years ago?  It is a book with INFORMATION we need to learn.  That information tells us what is coming but the time of the unsealing is past, though I agree not every event foretold has come to take place.   Or am I just saying what you are saying in a different way?

I don't think the seals are opened yet. Yet the vision of the four horses has been seen previously, in Zec. 6:1-7. The horses and riders in Rev. reveals their full power. But there are other elements of the seals that give us insight to your question.  

The fifth seal tells the martyrs that will be a little season before God will judge and avenge their blood on that dwell on the Earth.

The sixth seal shows the world seeing the FACE of He that sits on the throne and they themselves it is time for the Great Day of the wrath of the Lamb!

At the seventh seal an angel pours a burning fire from heaven with divine incense to Earth that goes straight up to God. I don't think this kind of prayer experience is quite at this level right now.

Jesus is presently advocating for us at the right hand of our Father in Heaven. It will soon be time for Him to take up His rulership of His inheritance. 

[DeighAnn]

2 hours ago, Uriah said:

I don't think the seals are opened yet. Y

What does your bible say here?  This is what is weird to me.  People 'asking', like it's even a question.


1And I saw when the Lamb opened one of the seals, and I heard, as it were the noise of thunder, one of the four beasts saying, Come and see.

That SEAL has been opened.  The Lamb opened it.  The INFORMATION it once held secret/contained WENT OUT TO ALL WHO READ.


3And when he had opened the second seal, I heard the second beast say, Come and see.

WHAT do you think could make it MORE OPEN, than it is already?  

The information went from the book to your brain. Only question is WHEN does the information given take place?


Let me ask you something.  If you were trying to teach someone 'who knew nothing about the word of God' this chapter 

and they read the Lamb opened one of the seals

but you told them that was incorrect, NONE of the seals had been opened, 

what are the chances they would be confused?  Pretty much 100%.  

Yet God tells us HE isn't the author of confusion. 

So they get continue on reading and they read

3And when he had opened the second seal, I heard the second beast say, Come and see.

now you have them QUESTIONING what OPENED MEANS.  

Does that give you pause?  

IN BLACK AND WHITE IT SAYS THE BOOK WAS UNSEALED ONE BY ONE.  

What makes it possible for a TRUTH so blatantly set forth as a truth to NOT be taught as TRUE?  I don't get it.  

Edited January 9, 2023 by DeighAnn

[DeighAnn]

2 hours ago, Uriah said:

The fifth seal tells the martyrs that will be a little season before God will judge and avenge their blood on that dwell on the Earth.

Since you are talking about what the seals contained how can you say THEY AREN'T OPEN?

 

[DeighAnn]

2 hours ago, Uriah said:

The sixth seal shows the world seeing the FACE of He that sits on the throne and they themselves it is time for the Great Day of the wrath of the Lamb!

YES BUT seeing heaven open up and hearing the day is come, doesn't equate to GODS WRATH actually happening, they are two different things.  

WHAT was told to the souls under the altar?  They had to wait.  For what?  Gods Wrath to fall?  NO for the other souls to be killed like they were.  HOW does that part of the story just get skipped here?  Don't you think it is a big part of the story?  

 

2 hours ago, Uriah said:

Jesus is presently advocating for us at the right hand of our Father in Heaven. It will soon be time for Him to take up His rulership of His inheritance. 

Yes, AFTER the workings of Satan.  After Satan comes and deceives the world.  

IF the heaven opened up right now, HOW MANY CHRISTIANS would be running for the hills wishing for them to fall upon them and hide them from the wrath of God? 

Hopefully NOT ANY because
They haven't done anything but go to church and try and be GOOD Christians.  They haven't worshipped after other Gods.  They haven't been rejoicing over the dead bodies of 2 witnesses of God.    Shoot, most of them would think they were being PRE TRIB RAPTURED.  

Don't you think most would be really happy to see GOD? 

Why would GODs WRATH be something to be scared of IF THEY HADN'T BEEN DECEIVED?  

 

[Uriah]

2 hours ago, DeighAnn said:

What does your bible say here?  This is what is weird to me.  People 'asking', like it's even a question.


1And I saw when the Lamb opened one of the seals, and I heard, as it were the noise of thunder, one of the four beasts saying, Come and see.

That SEAL has been opened.  The Lamb opened it.  The INFORMATION it once held secret/contained WENT OUT TO ALL WHO READ.


3And when he had opened the second seal, I heard the second beast say, Come and see.

WHAT do you think could make it MORE OPEN, than it is already?  

The information went from the book to your brain. Only question is WHEN does the information given take place?


Let me ask you something.  If you were trying to teach someone 'who knew nothing about the word of God' this chapter 

and they read the Lamb opened one of the seals

but you told them that was incorrect, NONE of the seals had been opened, 

what are the chances they would be confused?  Pretty much 100%.  

Yet God tells us HE isn't the author of confusion. 

So they get continue on reading and they read

3And when he had opened the second seal, I heard the second beast say, Come and see.

now you have them QUESTIONING what OPENED MEANS.  

Does that give you pause?  

IN BLACK AND WHITE IT SAYS THE BOOK WAS UNSEALED ONE BY ONE.  

What makes it possible for a TRUTH so blatantly set forth as a truth to NOT be taught as TRUE?  I don't get it.  

Visions of the future? They are all over Revelation.

[Uriah]

2 hours ago, DeighAnn said:

Since you are talking about what the seals contained how can you say THEY AREN'T OPEN?

 

Visions of the future?

 

[Uriah]

2 hours ago, DeighAnn said:

Don't you think most would be really happy to see GOD? 

Why would GODs WRATH be something to be scared of IF THEY HADN'T BEEN DECEIVED?

I don't think I have said anything like this. 

[WilliamL]

On 1/3/2023 at 4:20 PM, Uriah said:

I got it from sooo many people telling me over a long time that 1 Thes 5:9 proves it AND the Vials in Rev 16 ARE the wrath (which it states in the 1st verse) making so we aren't subjected to it.

Rev 16:1 ...seven angels having the seven last plagues, for in them the wrath of God is complete.

The vials are not "the wrath," the vials are the completion of the wrath. Big difference!

On 1/3/2023 at 4:20 PM, Uriah said:

And yet Rev 6 and 16 contain the same event: 

ch 6:14- And the heaven departed as a scroll when it is rolled together; and every mountain and island were moved out of their places.

Ch 16:20- And every island fled away, and the mountains were not found.

No, these are different events entirely. Big difference between mountains and islands merely being moved, and mountains and islands being erased!

There are three earthquakes prophesied in Revelation, just as there were three earthquakes during the last great judgment of God, during the Exodus era. This is no coincidence.

16. The Three Earthquakes of Revelation

Shows why the earthquakes of Revelation 6:12, 11:13, and 16:18 are indeed three separate quakes, and not, as some claim, all the same one. https://www.worthychristianforums.com/blogs/entry/1089-the-three-earthquakes-of-revelation/

Edited January 9, 2023 by WilliamL

[DeighAnn]

1 hour ago, Uriah said:

I don't think I have said anything like this. 

Don't you think most would be really happy to see GOD? 

Why would GODs WRATH be something to be scared of IF THEY HADN'T BEEN DECEIVED?

Those are questions.