Defense of the Post-Trib / Pre-Wrath Position

[Montana Marv]

On 1/29/2023 at 8:48 PM, WilliamL said:

The whole notion of a future 70th week is one of many unsupportable presumptions that far too many people take for granted. Daniel 9 says nothing at all about the end times, or any comparable term.

Then Daniel 9.24 has been fulfilled in its entirety and the current population follows God and no guile is in their mouths. 

In Christ 

Montana Marv 

[WilliamL]

On 1/31/2023 at 9:31 AM, Montana Marv said:

Then Daniel 9.24 has been fulfilled in its entirety ...

Yes it has. Thoroughly explained here:

https://www.worthychristianforums.com/blogs/entry/1568-daniel-924-27-examined-part-1-verse-24/

On 1/31/2023 at 9:31 AM, Montana Marv said:

...and the current population follows God and no guile is in their mouths. 

This  statement merely shows your misunderstanding of the verse.

[iamlamad]

On 6/12/2015 at 1:46 PM, Ezra said:

 

While this is true, it is also true that the Temple will be desecrated for 2,300 days which is about 6 years and 4 months (Dan 8:12-14), which is almost the total of Daniel's 70th week, and the Lord did say that those days (7 years) would be shortened for the sake of the elect: 

 

¹¹Yea, he magnified himself even to the prince of the host, and by him the daily sacrifice was taken away, and the place of his sanctuary was cast down.

¹²And an host was given him against the daily sacrifice by reason of transgression, and it cast down the truth to the ground; and it practised, and prospered.

¹³Then I heard one saint speaking, and another saint said unto that certain saint which spake, How long shall be the vision concerning the daily sacrifice, and the transgression of desolation, to give both the sanctuary and the host to be trodden under foot?

¹⁴And he said unto me, Unto two thousand and three hundred days; then shall the sanctuary be cleansed.

 

This prophecy would suggest that the period of wrath extends throughout the full seven years, which includes "the transgression", so "pre-wrath" could not equal "mid-trib".

Sorry but what gets shortened is the number of days of great tribulation that will occur DURING the final 42 months. The days of the 42 months will continue to fullfill scripture, but they will not be days of GT. They will be dark days of fear; wondering what God will do next.

Sorry again, but if you study the 2300 days IN CONTEXT, it was for Antiochus Epiphanies. Daniel mentions the leader with a single horn, which gets broken and four horns take over the empire. Alexander died and his four generals took over. Then, as Daniel wrote, in the latter time of THEIR kingdom, meaning, the GREEK Kingdom, a vile leader would emerge. That was Antiochus. Why was he so important as to be found in the scriptures. First, because when he stopped the temple sacrifices that Jesus instigated, he was IN GOD'S FACE. Second, he was a TYPE of the Antichrist Beast to come.

[iamlamad]

On 1/31/2023 at 10:31 AM, Montana Marv said:

Then Daniel 9.24 has been fulfilled in its entirety and the current population follows God and no guile is in their mouths. 

In Christ 

Montana Marv 

You are sure going to be surprised when events happen that you will thing sounds just like the trumpet judgments - then see that the abomination takes place, just as scripture tells us.

[Montana Marv]

8 minutes ago, iamlamad said:

You are sure going to be surprised when events happen that you will thing sounds just like the trumpet judgments - then see that the abomination takes place, just as scripture tells us.

Different verse. Daniel's people and Jerusalem are to fulfill the 6 tasks. When,,, when  they see the Son of Man coming in all His Glory. The 2nd Coming.  Then their sin is removed in a single day.  Then they become God's people and God becomes their God. The fulfillment of the 70th Week.

In Christ 

Montana Marv 

[iamlamad]

57 minutes ago, Montana Marv said:

Different verse. Daniel's people and Jerusalem are to fulfill the 6 tasks. When,,, when  they see the Son of Man coming in all His Glory. The 2nd Coming.  Then their sin is removed in a single day.  Then they become God's people and God becomes their God. The fulfillment of the 70th Week.

In Christ 

Montana Marv 

I stand by my earlier comment. We disagree.

[luigi]

On 6/9/2015 at 3:34 AM, George said:

 

 

If you are a post-tribulation / pre-wrath advocate, use this thread to defend your position.

 

 

 

 

Revelation 13:10 ; 14:12; where the saints endure and are killed during the reign of the beast indicates their experiencing tribulation. Likewise, the first reaping of the earth in Revelation 14:13-16, are the righteous, after experiencing this tribulation, while the 2nd reaping of the earth in Revelation 14:17-20 are the unrighteous who experience the wrath of God (Revelation 14:19). 

Revelation 13:10 He that leadeth into captivity shall go into captivity: he that killeth with the sword must be killed with the sword. Here is the patience and the faith of the saints.

Revelation 14:12 Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.

Revelation 14:19 And the angel thrust in his sickle into the earth, and gathered the vine of the earth, and cast it into the great winepress of the wrath of God.

[WilliamL]

On 4/3/2024 at 7:25 AM, luigi said:

Revelation 13:10 ; 14:12; where the saints endure and are killed during the reign of the beast indicates their experiencing tribulation. Likewise, the first reaping of the earth in Revelation 14:13-16, are the righteous, after experiencing this tribulation, while the 2nd reaping of the earth in Revelation 14:17-20 are the unrighteous who experience the wrath of God (Revelation 14:19). 

Revelation 13:10 He that leadeth into captivity shall go into captivity: he that killeth with the sword must be killed with the sword. Here is the patience and the faith of the saints.

Revelation 14:12 Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.

Revelation 14:19 And the angel thrust in his sickle into the earth, and gathered the vine of the earth, and cast it into the great winepress of the wrath of God.

There will be saints on earth who will be raptured before the events of these verses; and there will be other saints on earth (particularly Jews who come to faith when they see Jesus in His Parousia) after the rapture, during the events of these verses.

56. The Firstfruits and the Harvest 2.0; Part 1

Explains the prophetic application of OT laws about the firstfruits, the firstborn, and the full harvest, as these laws relate to the End Times. https://worthychristianforums.com/blogs/entry/2686-the-firstfruits-and-the-harvest-20-part-1/

57. The Firstfruits and the Harvest 2.0; Part 2 https://worthychristianforums.com/blogs/entry/2687-the-firstfruits-and-the-harvest-20-part-2/

 

[luigi]

42 minutes ago, WilliamL said:

There will be saints on earth who will be raptured before the events of these verses; and there will be other saints on earth (particularly Jews who come to faith when they see Jesus in His Parousia) after the rapture, during the events of these verses.

56. The Firstfruits and the Harvest 2.0; Part 1

Explains the prophetic application of OT laws about the firstfruits, the firstborn, and the full harvest, as these laws relate to the End Times. https://worthychristianforums.com/blogs/entry/2686-the-firstfruits-and-the-harvest-20-part-1/

57. The Firstfruits and the Harvest 2.0; Part 2 https://worthychristianforums.com/blogs/entry/2687-the-firstfruits-and-the-harvest-20-part-2/

 

I believe the saints who are harvested, are those who are killed prior to and during the beasts reign, during the tribulation.

[WilliamL]

1 minute ago, luigi said:

I believe the saints who are harvested, are those who are killed prior to and during the beasts reign, during the tribulation.

So are you one who makes no distinction between the Great Tribulation and the Day of God's Wrath?