Salvation

[Your closest friendnt]

Jonh in his epistle, he says the same thing,

Any one who believes tha Jesus is the son of God is born from above. The same thing Jesus said in Jonh 3:16. Jesus also said: if you believe in me, you never die, spiritually of course,

I am the eternal life, when you believe in me you have the eternal life, as I am so you are,

Any one who believes Jesus died for us, they have the relationship with Cross,

They are under the blood of Jesus as they are at the moment of their belief .

Jesus looks at his believers through his blood. And he also knows every ones state of been who is under his blood to help them and for many things.....

This is the heavenly truth, by saying heavenly, we also have the diferent groups truth, let it be,

They use the name of Paul and Peter and Jonh, they claim their scriptures, but they are not with them.

Paul said: the life we have from Christ is not like the life Adam had. even if we do the disobidience of Adam it remain in us, it never dies is the life of Jesus Christ.

My friend as a believer , been under the eternal founded of the blood of Jesus Christ

, took his own life, to be with Jesus.

All the Glory belongs to Jesus.

I am not talking about the state of the believer, that's between him and his savior.

And I am not talking about the group consience of the group, that's their own.

[Your closest friendnt]

all of yahweh's WORD is true.

remember he says multitudes will show up on judgment day, (catholics, lutherans, baptists, jws, mormons, masons, republicans, democrats, independents, many nations, many colors, many 'faiths')

and

be told "depart from me, i never knew you"... and they have no chance for life ever again(since before they died on earth)

Definitely what you just post is not in the scriptures, and neither reflects Paul, Jonh, PETER, or every disciple of Jesus Christ, or Jesus him self.

[Ezra]

all of yahweh's WORD is true.

remember he says multitudes will show up on judgment day, (catholics, lutherans, baptists, jws, mormons, masons, republicans, democrats, independents, many nations, many colors, many 'faiths')

and be told "depart from me, i never knew you"... and they have no chance for life ever again(since before they died on earth)

 

Definitely what you just post is not in the scriptures, and neither reflects Paul, Jonh, PETER, or every disciple of Jesus Christ, or Jesus him self.

 What simplejeff is saying is that except a man be born again, he cannot see or enter the Kingdom of God.  That is definitely in Scripture (Jn 3:1-12).  The person who is born again knows Christ experientially, and is also known of Him. The one who is a "Christian" in name only (no inner reality) will hear the awful words "I never knew you".  Scripture says "The Lord knoweth them that are His" (2 Tim 2:19).

[Retrobyter]

Shalom, everyone.

 

I’ll say it only once, and you all can do with it as you please.

 

“Salvation” is the wrong word for what you all are talking about. You are talking about “God’s JUSTIFICATION of an individual.” “Salvation” is almost ALWAYS talking about “RESCUE” or “DELIVERANCE,” and specifically, that refers to God’s RESCUE or DELIVERANCE of His people, the Jews, when He sends His Son back to earth.

 

As I’ve said before, it’s not a matter of “OSAS”; it’s a matter of “OJBGAJBG.” That is, “Once Justified By God, Always Justified By God.” When one gets that much right, it makes a TREMENDOUS difference in the perspective one might have had concerning verses having to do with “salvation” or being “saved."

[Your closest friendnt]

all of yahweh's WORD is true.

remember he says multitudes will show up on judgment day, (catholics, lutherans, baptists, jws, mormons, masons, republicans, democrats, independents, many nations, many colors, many 'faiths')

and be told "depart from me, i never knew you"... and they have no chance for life ever again(since before they died on earth)

Definitely what you just post is not in the scriptures, and neither reflects Paul, Jonh, PETER, or every disciple of Jesus Christ, or Jesus him self.

What simplejeff is saying is that except a man be born again, he cannot see or enter the Kingdom of God. That is definitely in Scripture (Jn 3:1-12). The person who is born again knows Christ experientially, and is also known of Him. The one who is a "Christian" in name only (no inner reality) will hear the awful words "I never knew you". Scripture says "The Lord knoweth them that are His" (2 Tim 2:19).

Jonh the disciple of Jesus, has made clear and simple just like Jesus himself.

If any one believes that Jesus is the son of God is born from above.

Paul made even more melodramatic, the in Christ is not like the life the first Adam had, and even if someone is disobidient like the first Adam, the life remains in him, obedient or disobedient someone is still in Jesus Christ.

[Butch5]

16For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. 17For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved. 18He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

 

Is this an absolute statement?

 

It seems like everyone is saying everyone else is going to Hell. Catholics say there is no salvation outside of the RC Church. Many say that those who think they have to have good works along with faith are going to Hell because they don't put "all their faith in Jesus." Others say that anyone without good works is going to Hell because of X passage.

 

But all of these people believe in Jesus Christ. 

 

I know of the sanctification God gives. That is not what I'm asking.

 

What I am asking is:

Is this an absolute statement?

 

 

For instance:

Someone who was my best friend growing up was born in Detroit, sold drugs, lied, fornicated, etc etc... He got hit in the head by a stray bullet right before highschool graduation. He believed Jesus Christ is God's Son. 

 

It seems MOST people would say, if not outright - in their doctrine, that he is in eternal fire. 

 

Here is what I recognize. We have a greatest commandment.

 

34But when the Pharisees had heard that he had put the Sadducees to silence, they were gathered together.35Then one of them, which was a lawyer, asked him a question, tempting him, and saying, 36Master, whichis the great commandment in the law? 37Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind. 38This is the first and great commandment. 39And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. 40On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.

 

Who keeps this commandment every day? I don't think anyone on Earth does. 

 

At judgment, we have to render an account for every idle word. Jesus said judge not lest ye be judged. We will all stand before the judgment seat of Christ.

 

God's Spirit makes us desire holiness and wars against our flesh. I'm not saying we should not be holy.

 

Is John 3:16 an absolute, definitive statement on salvation made directly by God? 

 

He didn't say "whoever believes in Him is not condemned IF..." He reiterated this quite a few times in His Word.

 

I constantly hear people in debates etc saying that everyone who has (insert false or true doctrine here) belief is going to Hell.

 

I'm left in the situation where it often seems that the only one who is telling me I'm not going to Hell for messing up is God in John 3:16. He said His Blood paid for all my sins and His Spirit wars against my flesh.

 

34But when the Pharisees had heard that he had put the Sadducees to silence, they were gathered together.35Then one of them, which was a lawyer, asked him a question, tempting him, and saying, 36Master, whichis the great commandment in the law? 37Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind. 38This is the first and great commandment. 39And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. 40On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.

 

I haven't kept this commandment for a single day of my life. I have tried and failed. I'm breaking the greatest commandment every day of my life and there is nothing I can do about it. Does John 3:16 still apply to me? Sometimes I start to doubt that I can get to Heaven if I don't do enough good works. I still believe in God's Son, but I just believe that a certain level of holiness is necessary - in those moments. Other times I remember that man shall not live by bread alone but by every word that proceeds from the mouth of God.

 

Either I am continually passing between a state of being saved and being damned, or I am always saved.

 

Jesus Christ paid for me and is exalted above all other names. His very Spirit, the same Spirit who lives in me, is the same PERSON who WROTE John 3:16.

 

Then there are the doubts "but....what....if.... and every "but, what, if" is the same question in essence...."what if John 3:16 is not a literal, final, definitive statement on Salvation straight from the mouth of God Almighty HIMSELF?" I wrestle those doubts every day of my life. Similar to how I wrestle with keeping the greatest commandment every day of my wretched life.

 

Is John 3:16 a final, definitive, completely literal statement straight from God? And if not, why didn't God say "if..." 

John 3:16 is a true statement, however, it is not the only statement on the subject. In order to know the truth one must look at every passage on the subject and come to a conclusion that harmonizes all of the passages. You mentioned loving God with all your heart. How do you define love? Jesus said, 'if you love me keep my commands'. So obedience is love. If you obey God you love God. 

[Guest shiloh357]

We are saved by grace through faith alone in Christ alone.   Salvation is Jesus + 0    When we start adding personal effort, works of any kind to the plan of salvation, we are contradicting God's word.

[Butch5]

We are saved by grace through faith alone in Christ alone.   Salvation is Jesus + 0    When we start adding personal effort, works of any kind to the plan of salvation, we are contradicting God's word.

How so?

[Guest shiloh357]

Ephesians 2:8,9 says that we are saved by grace through faith and not of ourselves, it is a gift of God, not works so that no one can boast.

 

We are not saved by any mixture of grace and personal effort.  It is a gift.  A gift cannot be earned.

[Ezra]

Shalom, everyone.

 

I’ll say it only once, and you all can do with it as you please.

 

“Salvation” is the wrong word for what you all are talking about. You are talking about “God’s JUSTIFICATION of an individual.” “Salvation” is almost ALWAYS talking about “RESCUE” or “DELIVERANCE,” and specifically, that refers to God’s RESCUE or DELIVERANCE of His people, the Jews, when He sends His Son back to earth.

 

As I’ve said before, it’s not a matter of “OSAS”; it’s a matter of “OJBGAJBG.” That is, “Once Justified By God, Always Justified By God.” When one gets that much right, it makes a TREMENDOUS difference in the perspective one might have had concerning verses having to do with “salvation” or being “saved."

Retro,

"Salvation" is the broadest term for what God has done for sinners.  It includes deliverance from Hell, deliverance from the power of sin, deliverance from the power of Satan, deliverance from sickness and disease (in many cases), deliverance from bondage to alcohol, drugs, promiscuity, etc.

 

It also includes justification, sanctification, glorification, the remission of sins, the New Birth, the gift of the Holy Spirit, the gift of Christ, the gift of God, the gift of eternal life, the gift of the righteousness of Christ, the Blessed Hope of being perfected by Christ, an eternal inheritance in Heaven, an eternal home in the New Jerusalem, becoming children of God, heirs of God, joint-heirs with Christ, and kings and priests eternally.  One could add many other aspects of salvation such as fellowship with the Godhead, the unction of the Holy Spirit, the gifts of the Holy Spirit, etc.

 

Therefore to state that "salvation" is the wrong term is to simply mislead others.  Justification by grace through faith is just one aspect of salvation.