History and the Roman Catholic Church

[Guest Judas Machabeus]

I'm not interested in debating, seldom does it bare fruit.

I'm not going to ask this group about Mormon believes. I'm going to go to the Mormons and ask them what they believe. I don't agree with their theology and I don't even believe they are Christians.

And of course they are going to defend what they believe.... Lol what's a Mormon site going to say, that they are wrong lol

[Willa]

The question about statues seems to be an important one to you. I went to catholic.com and entered the word statues in the search engine. The first article that came up was "do Catholics worship statues?"

This forum has a rule against promoting Catholic teachings. I don't think this violates it since it's clarifying a misunderstanding.

I too am looking for the Church Christ founded in Mathew. And the Cathloic Church claims to be that Church.

I have found so far. All the claims against the Church are founded in a gross misunderstanding as to what is believed by the Church.

 

 

 

I know some beautiful, born again Christians who are Catholic.  Many of them had received Christ as their own Savior and Lord in a protestant church but had returned to the Catholic church because of husbands remaining there.  All of them loved and read the Bible as the true source of their faith.  So believing that the Catholic church is the true church because of their traditions is really a sad state.  I can only pray that the Holy Spirit open your eyes to the truth in God's Word.  

[Guest Judas Machabeus]

I never once mentioned tradition. Also I said that its their claim that the are the on true Church. This claim of theirs is based on Jesus founding the Church with Peter as its head.

If one accepts that Jesus started a Church and placed Peter at the head of that Church than their claim is true.

If one rejects that Christ started a Church with Peter as head of it than that person would reject their claim of being the one true Church.

My position is that I have yet seen an argument against the Catholic Church hold up. Every argument thus far started with a misrepresentation of what they believe. Purgatory being the best example. Purgatory has been brought up and not once has a person correctly identified the correct position of the Catholic Church. Even when quoting straight from the Catechism the person still misrepresented the position.

But I'm not here to learn about the Catholic Church. I'm here to learn what Evangelical Christians believe.

[FresnoJoe]

Once

 

When Jesus had received the sour wine, he said, “It is finished,” and he bowed his head and gave up his spirit. John 19:30 (ESV)

 

And For All Time

 

But when Christ came as high priest of the good things that are now already here, he went through the greater and more perfect tabernacle that is not made with human hands, that is to say, is not a part of this creation. He did not enter by means of the blood of goats and calves; but he entered the Most Holy Place once for all by his own blood, thus obtaining eternal redemption. Hebrews 9:11-12 (NIV)

 

And Beloved, A Dire Warning

 

For it is impossible, in the case of those who have once been enlightened, who have tasted the heavenly gift, and have shared in the Holy Spirit, and have tasted the goodness of the word of God and the powers of the age to come, and then have fallen away, to restore them again to repentance, since they are crucifying once again the Son of God to their own harm and holding him up to contempt. Hebrews 6:4-6 (ESV)

 

~

 

But I'm not here to learn about the Catholic Church....

I'm here to learn what Evangelical Christians believe....

 

 

Concerning The "Host",

 

And suddenly there was with the angel a multitude of the heavenly host praising God, and saying, Glory to God in the highest, and on earth peace, good will toward men. Luke 2:13-14

 

The Army Of The LORD

 

Malachi 1:11 shows the Catholic Church must be God's Church. It could not have been fulfilled unless the Eucharist is the sacrifice God was telling us about in that passage.

 

How do you interpret this passage?

 

For from the rising of the sun even to the going down, my name is great among the Gentiles, and in every place there is sacrifice, and there is offered to my name a clean oblation: for my name is great among the Gentiles, saith the Lord of hosts.

 

For from the rising of the sun even unto the going down of the same my name shall be great among the Gentiles; and in every place incense shall be offered unto my name, and a pure offering: for my name shall be great among the heathen, saith the LORD of hosts.

 

 

 

 

Jesus Is The LORD Of Hosts, The LORD Of Armies~!

 

Thy words were found, and I did eat them; and thy word was unto me the joy and rejoicing of mine heart: for I am called by thy name, O LORD God of hosts. Jeremiah 15:16

 

His Name And His Word Is Above All

 

I bow down toward your holy temple and give thanks to your name for your steadfast love and your faithfulness, for you have exalted above all things your name and your word. Psalm 138:2 (ESV)

 

~

 

Beloved There Is Only One Head

 

The Son is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation. For in him all things were created: things in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or powers or rulers or authorities; all things have been created through him and for him. He is before all things, and in him all things hold together.

 

And he is the head of the body, the church; he is the beginning and the firstborn from among the dead, so that in everything he might have the supremacy. For God was pleased to have all his fullness dwell in him, and through him to reconcile to himself all things, whether things on earth or things in heaven, by making peace through his blood, shed on the cross. Colossians 1:15-20

 

And A Man Is Not

 

Thus saith the LORD; Cursed be the man that trusteth in man, and maketh flesh his arm, and whose heart departeth from the LORD. Jeremiah 17:5

 

It

 

Blessed is the man that trusteth in the LORD, and whose hope the LORD is. Jeremiah 17:7

 

~

 

Be Blessed Beloved Of The KING

 

The LORD bless thee, and keep thee:

The LORD make his face shine upon thee, and be gracious unto thee:

The LORD lift up his countenance upon thee, and give thee peace.

 

And they shall put my name upon the children of Israel; and I will bless them. Numbers 6:24-27

 

Love, Your Bother Joe

 

~

 

Beloved I Have No Idea What The "Evangelical Christians" Believe These Days

 

Thy word is true from the beginning: and every one of thy righteous judgments endureth for ever. Psalms 119:160

 

But I Do Know What A Child Of God Believes

 

Thy word have I hid in mine heart, that I might not sin against thee. Psalms 119:11
 

The Bible contains the mind of God, the state of man, the way of salvation, the doom of sinners, and the happiness of believers.

 

Its doctrines are holy, its precepts are binding, its histories are true, and its decisions are immutable.

 

Read it to be wise, believe it to be safe, practice it to be holy.

 

It contains light to direct you, food to support you, and comfort to cheer you.

 

It is the traveler’s map, the pilgrim’s staff, the pilot’s compass, the soldier’s sword, and the Christian’s character.

 

Here Paradise is restored, Heaven opened, and the gates of hell disclosed.

 

CHRIST is its grand subject, our good its design, and the glory of God its end.

 

It should fill the memory, rule the heart, and guide the feet.

 

Read it slowly, frequently and prayerfully.

 

It is a mine of wealth, a paradise of glory, and a river of pleasure.

 

It is given you in life, will be opened at the judgment and will be remembered forever.

 

It Involves the highest responsibility, will condemn all who trifle with its sacred contents.

 

From The Front Of My Gideon New Testament

[Guest Judas Machabeus]

FresnoJoe

What does John 19:30 mean to you?

John 19:30

30 When Jesus had received the vinegar, he said, "It is finished"; and he bowed his head and gave up his spirit.

[HePaidForUs]

Yes Jesus is the LORD of hosts

 

But how can Malachi 1:11 be fulfilled without the RCC?

 

What other way could a sacrifice be offered to the LORD in all the gentile nations?

 

Douay-Rheims Bible

For from the rising of the sun even to the going down, my name is great among the Gentiles, and in every place there is sacrifice, and there is offered to my name a clean oblation: for my name is great among the Gentiles, saith the Lord of hosts.

 

King James Bible

For from the rising of the sun even unto the going down of the same my name shall be great among the Gentiles; and in every place incense shall be offered unto my name, and a pure offering: for my name shall be great among the heathen, saith the LORD of hosts.

 

The only way for this prophecy to have been fulfilled is in the Roman Catholic Church. In every place there is a sacrifice offered.

 

1 Corinthians 11:29

Douay-Rheims Bible

For he that eateth and drinketh unworthily, eateth and drinketh judgment to himself, not discerning the body of the Lord. 

 

King James Bible

For he that eateth and drinketh unworthily, eateth and drinketh damnation to himself, not discerning the Lord's body.

 

Your response was:

Jesus Is The LORD Of Hosts, The LORD Of Armies~!

 

Thy words were found, and I did eat them; and thy word was unto me the joy and rejoicing of mine heart: for I am called by thy name, O LORD God of hosts. Jeremiah 15:16

 

His Name And His Word Is Above All

 

I bow down toward your holy temple and give thanks to your name for your steadfast love and your faithfulness, for you have exalted above all things your name and your word.

 

There is no debating that He is the LORD of hosts.

 

"Truly, truly, I say to you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of man and drink his blood, you have no life in you; he who eats my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life, and I will raise him up at the last day. For my flesh is real food, and my blood is real drink. He who eats my flesh and drinks my blood abides in me, and I in him. As the living Father sent me, and I live because of the Father, so he who eats me will live because of me. This is the bread which came down from heaven, not such as the fathers ate and died; he who eats this bread will live forever" (John 6:53–58). 

 

This is the only possible explanation for these passages. The sacrifice in Malachi 1:11 is the Eucharist.

 

For he that eateth and drinketh unworthily, eateth and drinketh judgment to himself, not discerning the body of the Lord. 1 Corinthians 11:29 shows we can not eat and drink the LORD's body and blood while in a state of mortal sin. We have to be in a state of grace.

 

Literal Devils actually tried to stop me from getting Communion today. They even made the statue of Jesus on the Cross shake its head "no," trying to convince me I was not in a state of grace.

 

Your enemy is real. The devil and his angels do not want us in a state of grace when we die, because they want us in hell with them. Why else would they be accusing us? If faith in Christ is the only requirement for salvation, and mortal sin does not separate us from God's saving grace, what is Satan doing accusing us? God bound Salvation to His Sacraments, but He Himself is not bound by His Sacraments. I'm not saying all protestants are going to Hell. I'm saying Christ wants you in His Church.

 

The RC Church is God's Church. It is all real. Do as you will with the posts.

Edited June 28, 2015 by HePaidForUs

[Alejandro84]

It's fulfilled by Hebrews 13:15 among believers everywhere who worship him in spirit and truth.

[FresnoJoe]

FresnoJoe

What does John 19:30 mean to you?

John 19:30

30 When Jesus had received the vinegar, he said, "It is finished"; and he bowed his head and gave up his spirit.

 

~

 

It Means

 

Forasmuch as ye know that ye were not redeemed with corruptible things, as silver and gold, from your vain conversation received by tradition from your fathers; But with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot: 1 Peter 1:18-19

 

What It Said

 

And from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, and the first begotten of the dead, and the prince of the kings of the earth. Unto him that loved us, and washed us from our sins in his own blood, Revelation 1:5

 

~

 

PS: Beloved, It Astonishes Me To Hear Folk Claim Dear Pete As Their Rock

 

Praise be to the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ! In his great mercy he has given us new birth into a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, and into an inheritance that can never perish, spoil or fade. 1 Peter 1:3-4 (NIV)

 

Yet They Do Not Seen To Believe

 

This inheritance is kept in heaven for you, who through faith are shielded by God’s power until the coming of the salvation that is ready to be revealed in the last time. In all this you greatly rejoice, though now for a little while you may have had to suffer grief in all kinds of trials. 1 Peter 1:4-6 (NIV)

 

Nor Obey Him

 

These have come so that the proven genuineness of your faith—of greater worth than gold, which perishes even though refined by fire—may result in praise, glory and honor when Jesus Christ is revealed. Though you have not seen him, you love him; and even though you do not see him now, you believe in him and are filled with an inexpressible and glorious joy, for you are receiving the end result of your faith, the salvation of your souls. 1 Peter 1:7-9 (NIV)

[FresnoJoe]

The sacrifice in Malachi 1:11 is the Eucharist.

 

For he that eateth and drinketh unworthily, eateth and drinketh judgment to himself, not discerning the body of the Lord....

1 Corinthians 11:29 shows we can not eat and drink the LORD's body and blood....

while in a state of mortal sin. We have to be in a state of grace....

 

God bound Salvation to His Sacraments, but He Himself is not bound by His Sacraments....

I'm not saying all protestants are going to Hell....

I'm saying Christ wants you...

in His Church....

 

The RC Church is God's Church. It is all real....

Do as you will with the posts....

 

 

The God In Malachi 1:11 Is The LORD Of Hosts (The LORD OF Armies)

 

But my name is honored by people of other nations from morning till night. All around the world they offer sweet incense and pure offerings in honor of my name. For my name is great among the nations," says the LORD of Heaven's Armies. Malachi 1:11 (NLT)

 

And Jesus Is The Head Of The Church

 

Christ is also the head of the church,

which is his body.

 

He is the beginning,

supreme over all who rise from the dead.

So he is first in everything.

 

For God in all his fullness

was pleased to live in Christ,

 

and through him God reconciled

everything to himself.

 

He made peace with everything in heaven and on earth

by means of Christ’s blood on the cross. Colossians 1:18-20 (NLT)

 

And Only Jesus

 

Jesus told him, "I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one can come to the Father except through me. John 14:6 (NLT)

 

Saves

 

Jesus said to her, “I am the resurrection and the life. The one who believes in me will live, even though they die;

and whoever lives by believing in me will never die.

Do you believe this?” John 11:25-26 (NIV)

 

And Beloved, Jesus Wants You In His Church

 

“I, Jesus, have sent my angel to give you this message for the churches. I am both the source of David and the heir to his throne.^e I am the bright morning star.”

 

The Spirit and the bride say, “Come.” Let anyone who hears this say, “Come.” Let anyone who is thirsty come. Let anyone who desires drink freely from the water of life. Revelation 22:16-17

 

Love, Joe

[HePaidForUs]

It's fulfilled by Hebrews 13:15 among believers everywhere who worship him in spirit and truth.

 

We should keep in mind that eternity, and in my strong belief - a long stay in purgatory without special graces AT THE LEAST, is at stake.

 

Look at the context. 

 

KJV

The Polluted Offerings

6A son honoureth his father, and a servant his master: if then I be a father, where is mine honour? and if I be a master, where is my fear? saith the LORD of hosts unto you, O priests, that despise my name. And ye say, Wherein have we despised thy name? 7Ye offer polluted bread upon mine altar; and ye say, Wherein have we polluted thee? In that ye say, The table of the LORD is contemptible.8And if ye offer the blind for sacrifice, is it not evil? and if ye offer the lame and sick, is it not evil? offer it now unto thy governor; will he be pleased with thee, or accept thy person? saith the LORD of hosts. 9And now, I pray you, beseech God that he will be gracious unto us: this hath been by your means: will he regard your persons? saith the LORD of hosts. 10Who is there even among you that would shut the doors for nought? neither do ye kindle fire on mine altar for nought. I have no pleasure in you, saith the LORD of hosts, neither will I accept an offering at your hand. 11For from the rising of the sun even unto the going down of the same my name shall be great among the Gentiles; and in every place incense shall be offered unto my name, and a pure offering: for my name shall be great among the heathen, saith the LORD of hosts. 12But ye have profaned it, in that ye say, The table of the LORD is polluted; and the fruit thereof, even his meat, is contemptible. 13Ye said also, Behold, what a weariness is it! and ye have snuffed at it, saith the LORD of hosts; and ye brought that which was torn, and the lame, and the sick; thus ye brought an offering: should I accept this of your hand? saith the LORD. 14But cursed be the deceiver, which hath in his flock a male, and voweth, and sacrificeth unto the Lord a corrupt thing: for I am a great King, saith the LORD of hosts, and my nameis dreadful among the heathen.

Catholic Bible

6The son honoureth the father, and the servant his master: if then I be a father, where is my honour? and if I be a master, where is my fear? saith the Lord of hosts. 7To you, O priests, that despise my name, and have said: Wherein have we despised thy name? You offer polluted bread upon my altar, and you say: Wherein have we polluted thee? In that you say: The table of the Lord is contemptible.8If you offer the blind for sacrifice, is it not evil? and if you offer the lame and the sick, is it not evil? offer it to thy prince, if he will be pleased with it, or if he will regard thy face, saith the Lord of hosts.9And now beseech ye the face of God, that he may have mercy on you, (for by your hand hath this been done,) if by any means he will receive your faces, saith the Lord of hosts. 10Who is there among you, that will shut the doors, and will kindle the fire on my altar gratis? I have no pleasure in you, saith the Lord of hosts: and I will not receive a gift of your hand. 11For from the rising of the sun even to the going down, my name is great among the Gentiles, and in every place there is sacrifice, and there is offered to my name a clean oblation: for my name is great among the Gentiles, saith the Lord of hosts. 12And you have profaned it in that you say: The table of the Lord is defiled: and that which is laid thereupon is contemptible with the fire that devoureth it. 13And you have said: Behold of our labour, and you puffed it away, saith the Lord of hosts, and you brought in of rapine the lame, and the sick, and brought in an offering: shall I accept it at your hands, saith the Lord? 14Cursed is the deceitful man that hath in his flock a male, and making a vow offereth in sacrifice that which is feeble to the Lord: for I am a great King, saith the Lord of hosts, and my name is dreadful among the Gentiles.

 

 

We see that the context is with regards to sacrifices on the altar. Wouldn't it be logical to conclude the sacrifice is a literal sacrifice on an altar in the prophecy as well?

 

Christ have mercy