Church leaders and theological and seminary training

[missmuffet]

 

Do you think leaders in the church ( Pastors, Apostles, Prophets, Elders, Bishops and Deacons ) should be required to get college training in theology?

I think it is God who calls and gifts accordingly. I believe God will also equip that person in the gifting and calling God has placed on their life. I think it is very important for church leaders to "Study to show themselves aproved unto God a workman that needeth not be ashamed". Sometimes it is so obvious that a church leader did not study the lesson out that they are trying to deliver. I could give examples that would make you shake your head in that avenue in how they didn't study. I don't believe in a so called requirement that church leaders have to get training at a college in order to be an effectual minister of God as you can become an effectual leader without a college education or training in theology. After all it is God who adds to the church such as should be saved all we have to do is be faithful in the work he has called us to do. I am not against those who do go to a christian college to further their personal education. But I have listened to church leaders who went to christian colleges and come out knowing nothing about the word of God. But they knew all about coming up with all kind of gimmicks in how to grow their churches as they had been taught in college. I'm not against education and knowledge but when a church leader has no knowledge of the bible or has never read it one time then I see a definate problem there with going to colleges. I believe a church leader should be educated in the theology found in the written word of God and learn how to put together sound doctrine that will save both them and their hearers.

just curious how other Christians are wanting their Church leadership qualified .

I personally want all church leaders every where especially any that would be over me to have their education from the pages of God's Word not just superficial either but really know what is in the bible as a whole from front to back cover. This kind of education and being taught of the Lord from the pages of His word is far more important than what any college will ever have to offer and college education will never compare to what the bible teaches un in the inspired word of God.

Apostle Paul told and warned young Timothy as a pastor of these words in...

1 Timothy 1:6-7 - From which some having swerved have turned aside unto "vain janglings"; Desiring to be teachers of the law; understanding neither what they say, nor whereof they affirm.

There are church leaders out there that know nothing about the word of God they desire to be teachers of the law even but they don't know the bible so the only thing that is coming out of their mouths is "vain janglings" or a bunch of "babble" that is based on nothing as they cannot even show that what they are teaching is affirmed in the scripture. But yet because of that desire to be a teacher they swerve from God's word and become a cloud having no water as Jude said they have no subtance from God to offer you. Just a bunch of gobbly goop. There are blind guides why because they are void of the truth found in God's Word.

The colleges of today in their training materials that are a requirement to read to become a church leader are nothing more than books. While they may be interesting books to read the scriptures are not a part of their training or reading materials at all nor a requirement. So how can a church leader lead without the instuctions from the word of God.

Can God qualify someone on his own without college training in theology?

Of course God can qualify (equip) a person without any college training in theology. After all it is "God's calling and vocation" that he gifts the church leaders with. No college can place that call of God on an individuals life nor can they make one walk worthy of their vocation and calling in which God gave to them. A matter of fact the scriptures in Ephesians 4 shows that God uses the giftings of the saints to minister and edify or uplift the body of Christ and that from babes (new Christians in the Lord) we will grow to maturity and when we become adults in the Lord we ourselves will take on the work of the ministering to the saints as others will come to adulthood in Christ and the cycle God put in place for training those he calls continues and it works And it works even without college education being given. The church is far better off being trained and equipped by the saints with those in whom God has prepared before us in the work of God. The church should be the teacher and trainer of God's theology in the Bible.

Is there a concern that college training in theology is just getting the doctrine of men and/or the approval of man?

There is difianately a concern when it comes to my opinion from the things I have already mentioned and observed. This is a problem in especially denominaltional churches in which they have the big headquaters that is over all the churches within that denomination. They train their ministers only to grow the churches by having gimmicks as I call them just things to get people into the church and fill the pews but then there is no God that is offered or no word of God given and these people though in church for whatever pulled them there is not trained or led in the admonition of the Word of God. They are just at church for the fun and fellowship or the free food that night that was offered. But the training is not the Bible that they are being taught. This kind of doctrine and training will always get the approval of men and grow in popularity because there is nothing demanded in way of christianity being offered in the midst. It's nothing more than social club. People are lured to the church but then they find no reconciliation to the Father throught the Son as they find no Jesus when they get there.

 

Oh yes and how popular those Churches have become.Very sad.

[Omegaman 3.0]

I do not think Bible college is necessary, nor should it be required. However, I do not think that attending medical school should be required to perform brain surgery either.

 

What I want, is qualified people, how they got qualified is not the issue. At the same time, I think that Seminary can teach a person a lot of things that are useful, skills and knowledge, including training in recognizing error. It is hard to learn the theology, church history, Biblical languages, Hereneutics, Homiletics, and other useful things through self study.

 

Because of this, I think that it is more likely to find qualified people who have paid their dues through formal education, than it is to find qualified people who have not been trained. A problem with formal education though, is that sometimes, one can be taught things that are wrong and they will not be easily convinced otherwise later.

 

No seminary can give a person a heart for ministry though, and that just might be the most important thing.

[gdemoss]

Seminary is not a biblical qualification of a church leader therefore to me it is irrelevant. I know them by their fruit not school association.

[FresnoJoe]

Do you think leaders in the church ( Pastors, Apostles, Prophets, Elders, Bishops and Deacons ) should be required to get college training in theology....

 

I was wondering how other believers felt about this. Should it be a requirement....

 

Just curious how other Christians are wanting their Church leadership qualified....

 

Can God qualify someone on his own without college training in theology....

 

Is there a concern that college training in theology is just getting the doctrine of men and/or the approval of man....

 

 

Sometimes

 

Since God in his wisdom saw to it that the world would never know him through human wisdom, he has used our foolish preaching to save those who believe. 1 Corinthians 1:21 (NLT)

 

It Seems So Clear

 

I have more insight than all my teachers,

for I meditate on your statutes.

 

I have more understanding than the elders,

for I obey your precepts.

 

I have kept my feet from every evil path

so that I might obey your word.

 

I have not departed from your laws,

for you yourself have taught me.

 

How sweet are your words to my taste,

sweeter than honey to my mouth! Psalms 119:99-103 (NIV)

 

Sometimes Not So Much

 

Work hard so you can present yourself to God and receive his approval. Be a good worker, one who does not need to be ashamed and who correctly explains the word of truth. 2 Timothy 2:15 (NLT)

[Qnts2]

I used to think that seminary is just mans head knowledge. I would have said no pastor should be a seminary graduate as their head is filled with the knowledge of men, and everyone should only be taught by the Holy Spirit. I have changed my mind in that I see a wonderful use for a seminary.

 

I was working with a missions board when the head of the missions board suggested that I take some seminary classes. I was very resistant and told him why. His response was interesting. He said that had their been a grocery store within walking distance of where Elijah was, would it have been presumptuous for Elijah to expect God to cause the ravens to bring him food.

 

1 Kings 17:2 Then the word of the Lord came to him, saying, ³ “Get away from here and turn eastward, and hide by the Brook Cherith, which flows into the Jordan. ⁴ And it will be that you shall drink from the brook, and I have commanded the ravens to feed you there.”

⁵ So he went and did according to the word of the Lord, for he went and stayed by the Brook Cherith, which flows into the Jordan. ⁶ The ravens brought him bread and meat in the morning, and bread and meat in the evening; and he drank from the brook

 

Scripture says there will be teachers who are a part of the work of the maturing of the body.  So, if God gave teacher for the body of Christ, to reject or ignore teachers is against Gods plan. Seminaries have very knowledgable teachers, ready to teach and train up more teachers.

 

 

Eph 4:11And He Himself gave some to be apostles, some prophets, some evangelists, and some pastors and teachers, ¹² for the equipping of the saints for the work of ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ

 

Well, I saw these as strong arguments, so I went to seminary. I was still cautious as I did not want to be loaded with the knowledge of men but wanted the Holy Spirit to teach. What I found was that the majority of professors were sincere believers who were seeking God.  I actually expected dried up old men who had nothing but dusty old book knowledge. That is not what I saw, (there were some old men teaching but they certainly were not dusty). At the seminary I attended, they were concerned about students who became enamored with their head knowledge and did things to keep them in tune with God.

 

I learned alot about the variations in theology within Christianity and the scriptural argument to support the theologies. I also learned about theologies which were not well supported by scripture, except by twisting scripture or taking scripture out of context. I learned about the history of the church. There are all kinds of false teachings in Christianity which depend on taking scripture out of context, and/or warping the history of Christianity. Without this knowledge, false teachings can creep into the church as the false teachers are very deceptive and their followers are very sincere not realizing they are deceived.  In seminary I learned some, about defending the faith, I learned to scripturally show why I believe what I do, and I learned other theologies in Christianity and why others believe what they beleive. And I met others studying to enter ministry.

 

A Pastor does not have to have a seminary degree. The more important is that they are called by God into that ministry and are desirous to serve the saint and serve God. However, a seminary degree would help the person called to be a pastor to do the work of a shepherd to protect the sheep.

[Guest shiloh357]

Some kind of formal training should be expected by a church of anyone applying to be a minister in that church.   Lack of training in theology and doctrine is not something to be praised or exalted. For many, ignorance has actually become a object of pride.

 

I don't think any of us would let a person in the medical field operate on our bodies or prescribe us medicine if we were not confident that they have had the education and training to know how to properly diagnose our problem and prescribe a course of treatment.

 

We would not put our money in the hands of someone to be our CPA  if we were not confident that he was educated, knows the tax laws, as been through the most updated training for the current tax laws an competent to be trusted with our taxes and ultimately our financial well-being.

 

None of us would hire someone to represent us in court who had no legal education and was not properly licensed by the Bar to practice law.  

 

 

In EVERY other context in our lives, we expect those we entrust with important aspects of our lives to, to be educated and wholly competent to handle our affairs.    But for some reason, those who we trust to preach the truth, and lead others to Christ, those we go to for counseling an advice and who have an immense amount of influence in spiritual matters and matters relating to eternity, we think that ignorance is a virtue.   The less educated, the better.

 

It seems in that in the Christian world, "education"  has been equated with, "self-righteousness."    The assumption is that people educated in theology spend their days in ivory towers and that is not the case at all.  Many seminary professors are men and women who were missionaries in other countries, especially in third world countries.  They have decades of ministry in the trenches and they bring those experiences into the classroom. They have traveled don the road and know the potholes that are ahead and they bless their students with advice and teaching that will hopefully help them to avoid those potholes when they get into ministry.

 

Much of the time, I have found that those who hate seminaries are people who want to be preachers and teachers, but can't find a church that will accept them because they haven't got a formal education, can offer no evidence of a calling on their lives and simply want to  walk into a church and presume the position of teacher.   Usually people like that have an agenda, and it is not a good one.

 

Not only that, but part of ministry is counseling.   Do you have ANY idea what kind of legal trouble you can get into if you are not a trained, and licensed counselor???  Even pastors have gotten themselves in hot water over that issue.  Ministers who are not licensed counselors who do not have a degree in Christian counseling stand to lose everything if they attempt to fill the shoes of a particular ministry they are not qualified to engage in.

 

Ministry is just as much an intellectual matter as it is a spiritual one.   I pointed out on another thread that the most successful cults in the world are the ones that use the Bible, and groups like the JWs and the Mormons are made up of (better than 50%)  of people who were raised in church.   Their theology is complex; more complex than many realize and they deceive Christians all of the time.  Same with JWs.   So good is their deception that they are considered by some to be Christians.

 

The one thing we DON'T want are preachers and teachers who are not educated and trained in the finer points of theology, which are often needed when confronting  JW, Mormons, SDAs, the Yahwist cult, WoF movement and other groups that promote false teaching using the Bible.    What we want are preachers and teachers who have an above average knowledge of Scripture and readily know how to confront these groups.

 

There are aspects of ministry for which no amount of training can prepare you.   But I think it was CH Spurgeon who said, "If your goal is to chop down a forest, the time you spend sharpening your axe is not wasted.'     A  call to preach is a call to prepare.    A person  who is called into ministry should want to avail his or herself with all available avenues of preparation,  spiritual and intellectual and practical.  We should want to be the best we can be in all areas to do the best job we can for the Lord.  Prepare to the extent that it is in your power to do so and trust God to take care of the rest.

[Qnts2]

Often, people point out that Peter and the other apostles did not attend seminary, but this is incorrect.

 

In Judaism of Jesus time, the Pharisees were really the only people who had classes to train more Pharisees to teach. The beginning classes were held in Jerusalem and only those men who were specifically invited to attend could attend. Various leading Rabbi's would select students by calling the students to come and follow them. These Rabbis traveled with their students to teach them, not just in class, but in aspects of life. The Rabbis would say, come and follow me, and if the students left home and followed the Rabbis, they were the Rabbis disciples, receiving their formal education. 

 

Does that sound at all like what Jesus did? Jesus would ask his students to come and follow him. They became the disciples of Jesus. Jesus was recognized by the Pharisees and others as a Rabbi/teacher who was traveling with his disciples. So, the Apostles actually did receive the formal training given in that day.

 

Matthew 8:23 Now when He got into a boat, His disciples followed Him.

 

Matthew 9:14 Then the disciples of John came to Him, saying, “Why do we and the Pharisees fast often, but Your disciples do not fast?”

 

 

 

Matthew 9:11 And when the Pharisees saw it, they said to His disciples, “Why does your Teacher eat with tax collectors and sinners?”

[firestormx]

 

Do you think leaders in the church ( Pastors, Apostles, Prophets, Elders, Bishops and Deacons ) should be required to get college training in theology?

I think it is God who calls and gifts accordingly. I believe God will also equip that person in the gifting and calling God has placed on their life. I think it is very important for church leaders to "Study to show themselves aproved unto God a workman that needeth not be ashamed". Sometimes it is so obvious that a church leader did not study the lesson out that they are trying to deliver. I could give examples that would make you shake your head in that avenue in how they didn't study. I don't believe in a so called requirement that church leaders have to get training at a college in order to be an effectual minister of God as you can become an effectual leader without a college education or training in theology. After all it is God who adds to the church such as should be saved all we have to do is be faithful in the work he has called us to do. I am not against those who do go to a christian college to further their personal education. But I have listened to church leaders who went to christian colleges and come out knowing nothing about the word of God. But they knew all about coming up with all kind of gimmicks in how to grow their churches as they had been taught in college. I'm not against education and knowledge but when a church leader has no knowledge of the bible or has never read it one time then I see a definate problem there with going to colleges. I believe a church leader should be educated in the theology found in the written word of God and learn how to put together sound doctrine that will save both them and their hearers.

just curious how other Christians are wanting their Church leadership qualified .

I personally want all church leaders every where especially any that would be over me to have their education from the pages of God's Word not just superficial either but really know what is in the bible as a whole from front to back cover. This kind of education and being taught of the Lord from the pages of His word is far more important than what any college will ever have to offer and college education will never compare to what the bible teaches un in the inspired word of God.

Apostle Paul told and warned young Timothy as a pastor of these words in...

1 Timothy 1:6-7 - From which some having swerved have turned aside unto "vain janglings"; Desiring to be teachers of the law; understanding neither what they say, nor whereof they affirm.

There are church leaders out there that know nothing about the word of God they desire to be teachers of the law even but they don't know the bible so the only thing that is coming out of their mouths is "vain janglings" or a bunch of "babble" that is based on nothing as they cannot even show that what they are teaching is affirmed in the scripture. But yet because of that desire to be a teacher they swerve from God's word and become a cloud having no water as Jude said they have no subtance from God to offer you. Just a bunch of gobbly goop. There are blind guides why because they are void of the truth found in God's Word.

The colleges of today in their training materials that are a requirement to read to become a church leader are nothing more than books. While they may be interesting books to read the scriptures are not a part of their training or reading materials at all nor a requirement. So how can a church leader lead without the instuctions from the word of God.

Can God qualify someone on his own without college training in theology?

Of course God can qualify (equip) a person without any college training in theology. After all it is "God's calling and vocation" that he gifts the church leaders with. No college can place that call of God on an individuals life nor can they make one walk worthy of their vocation and calling in which God gave to them. A matter of fact the scriptures in Ephesians 4 shows that God uses the giftings of the saints to minister and edify or uplift the body of Christ and that from babes (new Christians in the Lord) we will grow to maturity and when we become adults in the Lord we ourselves will take on the work of the ministering to the saints as others will come to adulthood in Christ and the cycle God put in place for training those he calls continues and it works And it works even without college education being given. The church is far better off being trained and equipped by the saints with those in whom God has prepared before us in the work of God. The church should be the teacher and trainer of God's theology in the Bible.

Is there a concern that college training in theology is just getting the doctrine of men and/or the approval of man?

There is difianately a concern when it comes to my opinion from the things I have already mentioned and observed. This is a problem in especially denominaltional churches in which they have the big headquaters that is over all the churches within that denomination. They train their ministers only to grow the churches by having gimmicks as I call them just things to get people into the church and fill the pews but then there is no God that is offered or no word of God given and these people though in church for whatever pulled them there is not trained or led in the admonition of the Word of God. They are just at church for the fun and fellowship or the free food that night that was offered. But the training is not the Bible that they are being taught. This kind of doctrine and training will always get the approval of men and grow in popularity because there is nothing demanded in way of christianity being offered in the midst. It's nothing more than social club. People are lured to the church but then they find no reconciliation to the Father throught the Son as they find no Jesus when they get there.

 

Thank you for being so specific in your response. You make a interesting point about denominational churches.

[firestormx]

No seminary can give a person a heart for ministry though, and that just might be the most important thing.

I like this statement. Thanks for the post.

[firestormx]

 

Do you think leaders in the church ( Pastors, Apostles, Prophets, Elders, Bishops and Deacons ) should be required to get college training in theology....

 

I was wondering how other believers felt about this. Should it be a requirement....

 

Just curious how other Christians are wanting their Church leadership qualified....

 

Can God qualify someone on his own without college training in theology....

 

Is there a concern that college training in theology is just getting the doctrine of men and/or the approval of man....

 

 

Sometimes

 

Since God in his wisdom saw to it that the world would never know him through human wisdom, he has used our foolish preaching to save those who believe. 1 Corinthians 1:21 (NLT)

 

It Seems So Clear

 

I have more insight than all my teachers,

for I meditate on your statutes.

 

I have more understanding than the elders,

for I obey your precepts.

 

I have kept my feet from every evil path

so that I might obey your word.

 

I have not departed from your laws,

for you yourself have taught me.

 

How sweet are your words to my taste,

sweeter than honey to my mouth! Psalms 119:99-103 (NIV)

 

Sometimes Not So Much

 

Work hard so you can present yourself to God and receive his approval. Be a good worker, one who does not need to be ashamed and who correctly explains the word of truth. 2 Timothy 2:15 (NLT)

 

Seeing your posts is always refreshing ! God bless you Joe