Matthew 13:24

[missmuffet]

Shalom, bopeep1909.

 

 

Shalom, Rick_Parker.

 

You have a very glaring fundamental flaw. Angels don't make mistakes. They only do as they are told to do by the Lord. If they were to make a mistake, that would mean that the Lord would make a mistake or at least allow one to be made on His behalf.

 

Actually, it is you who has made a glaring fundamental flaw. You ASSUME that these “angels” are supernatural beings! YOU CAN’T KNOW THAT! The Greek word “aggelos” means a “MESSENGER.” That MAY be a “supernatural being,” but it may just as easily NOT be! The word “aggelos” was simply TRANSLITERATED into the English as “angel,” since the “gamma-gamma” consonant blend gives the “ng” sound.

 

However, there are times in the Scriptures when the Greek word “aggelos” actually refers to a HUMAN “messenger!” For instance, John the Baptist was said to be the Messiah’s “aggelos” in Matthew 11:10; Mark 1:2; and Luke 7:27. Also, John's disciples were also called “aggeloi,” the plural form of “aggelos,” in Luke 7:24. Yeshua`s (Jesus’) own disciples were called “aggeloi” in Luke 9:52. Indeed, the “angels” (“aggeloi”) in 1 Peter 1:12 may be argued to be the “prophets” in 1 Peter 1:10! Weren’t the prophets “messengers (aggeloi) of God?"

 

Besides, how do YOU know that “Angels (even supernatural beings) don’t make mistakes”? If it is true that haSatan used to be an “angel” of God, he sure made some mistakes, didn’t he?! Even if you want to say that he CHOSE to disobey God and made no mistake in his choice, his assumption that he could put his throne above God’s and get away with it was mistaken, wasn’t it?! And, I can GUARANTEE you that human messengers of God MAKE MISTAKES!

 

Don’t be too confident in your theological reasoning. Things aren’t always so "cut and dry" as we might like to believe they are.

Angels are spiritual beings

 

Angels are personal spiritual beings who have intelligence, emotions, and will. This is true of both the good and evil angels (demons). Angels possess intelligence (Matthew 8:29;2 Corinthians 11:3;1 Peter 1:12), show emotion (Luke 2:13;James 2:19;Revelation 12:17), and exercise will (Luke 8:28-31;2 Timothy 2:26;Jude 6). Angels are spirit beings (Hebrews 1:14) without true physical bodies. Although they do not have physical bodies, they are still personalities.

Read more:http://www.gotquestions.org/angels-Bible.html#ixzz3f4G0Qv00

 

 

SAYS YOU! I’m sorry but that is NOT TRUE! Where do you get that nonsense?! Matthew 8:29 is not talking about “angels.” It’s talking about demon-possessed individuals! 2 Corinthians 11:3 is talking about the “serpent!” 1 Peter 1:12, as I’ve already said, is talking about the “prophets" of 1 Peter 1:10! I could go on, but all this simply means that you have BUILT A THEOLOGICAL NETWORK OF ANSWERS that SEEM to answer your questions but really are not directly based on the Scriptures AT ALL! Instead, you have formed this “house of cards” theology called “angelology” that is, AT BEST, a GUESS of this nebulous, vague, hazy subject about supernatural beings! It’s certainly NOT what you or anyone should take as “gospel fact!” It should also NOT be a source of contention to the point of breaking fellowship! NO ONE should take a dogmatic stand on this ... guesswork!

If you read what I posted and you still deny it that is your choice.Life if full of choices.

[Retrobyter]

Shalom, bopeep1909.

 

 

 

Shalom, again, Ezra.

 

 

The tares among the wheat.

My question is, why would the angels mistakenly uproot the wheat with the tares, cannot they do their job adequatly? Or are some of the tares going to become wheat? (Unbelievers into believers). Or something that has to do with immature believers looking like tares.

The point is not whether the angels can do their job properly but that the tares resemble the wheat so closely that they could be mistaken for wheat. 

 

The tares are the unsaved, whereas the wheat are the saved.  There are millions with the label of *Christian* who are totally faithful to their churches but are trusting in their good works, or good lives, or sacraments, or what have you, to enter Heaven.  They do not have the indwelling Holy Spirit, hence they are not wheat but tares.  They are Christians outwardly, but need to be saved -- religious but lost.

 

 

And I ask, where do you get the notion that the “tares are the unsaved, whereas the wheat are the saved?” That is NOT what Yeshua` said nor is it what He was talking about! Quit projecting into the present what is meant for the future! Look at it again:

 

Matthew 13:36-43

36 Then Jesus sent the multitude away, and went into the house: and his disciples came unto him, saying, Declare unto us the parable of the tares of the field.

37 He answered and said unto them,

He that soweth the good seed is the Son of man;

38 The field is the world (kosmos = "world-system");

the good seed are the children of the kingdom; but

the tares are the children of the wicked one;

39 The enemy that sowed them is the devil (diabolos = “slanderer”);

the harvest is the end of the world (aioonos = "age”); and

the reapers are the angels (aggeloi = “messengers").

40 As therefore the tares are gathered and burned in the fire; so shall it be in the end of this world.

41 The Son of man shall send forth his angels (aggeloi = “messengers”), and they shall gather OUT of his kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity;

42 And shall cast them into a furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth.

43 Then shall the righteous shine forth as the sun IN the kingdom of their Father. Who hath ears to hear, let him hear.

KJV

 

The “children of the Kingdom” are NOT the “saved,” as you think of the word!

The “children of the wicked one” are NOT the “unsaved,” as you define against your word “saved” above.

 

You absolutely MUST be more careful in your languages than that!

 

The “children of the Kingdom” are those who were destined to be the Kingdom’s subjects, whether willingly or not so willingly. The children of the wicked one are the PLANTS (persons placed in a group as spies or informers) of the Slanderer in the Messiah’s Kingdom. They were placed there to UNDERMINE the workings of the Messiah’s Kingdom.

 

Please read this with the Scripture which is provided.Yes,the tares are the unsaved

and the wheat are the saved.

 

Question: "What is the Parable of the Wheat and the Tares?"

Answer:The Parable of the Wheat and the Weeds, or Tares, is filled with spiritual significance and truth. But, in spite of the clear explanation of the parable that Jesus gave (Matthew 13:36-43), this parable is very often misinterpreted. Many commentaries and sermons have attempted to use this story as an illustration of the condition of the church, noting that there are both true believers (the wheat) and false professors (the weeds) in both the church at large and individual local churches. While this may be true, Jesus distinctly explains that the field is not the church; it is the world (v. 38).

Even if He hadn’t specifically told us the world is the setting of the story, it would still be obvious. The landowner tells the servants not to pull up the weeds in the field, but to leave them until the end of the age. If the field were the church, this command would directly contradict Jesus’ teaching inMatthew 18, which tells us how to deal with unrepentant sinners in the church: they are to be put out of the fellowship and treated as unbelievers. Jesus never instructed us to let impenitent sinners remain in our midst until the end of the age. So, Jesus is teaching here about “the kingdom of heaven” (v. 24) in the world.

In the agricultural society of Christ’s time, many farmers depended on the quality of their crops. An enemy sowing weeds would have sabotaged a business. The tares in the parable were likely darnel because that weed, until mature, appears as wheat. Without modern weed killers, what would a wise farmer do in such a dilemma? Instead of tearing out the wheat with the tares, the landowner in this parable wisely waited until the harvest. After harvesting the whole field, the tares could be separated and burned. The wheat would be saved in the barn.

In the explanation of parable, Christ declares that He Himself is the sower. He spreads His redeemed seed, true believers, in the field of the world. Through His grace, these Christians bear the fruit of the Spirit (Galatians 5:22-24). Their presence on earth is the reason the “kingdom of heaven” is like the field of the world. When Jesus said, “The kingdom of heaven is at hand” (Matthew 4:17;Mark 3:2), He meant the spiritual realm which exists on earth side by side with the realm of the evil one (1 John 5:19). When the kingdom of heaven comes to its fruition, heaven will be a reality and there will be no “weeds” among the “wheat.” But for now, both good and bad seeds mature in the world.

The enemy in the parable is Satan. In opposition to Jesus Christ, the devil tries to destroy Christ’s work by placing false believers and teachers in the world who lead many astray. One has only to look at the latest televangelist scandal to know the world is filled with professing “Christians” whose ungodly actions bring reproach on the name of Christ. But we are not to pursue such people in an effort to destroy them. For one thing, we don’t know if immature and innocent believers might be injured by our efforts. Further, one has only to look at the Spanish Inquisition, the Crusades, and the reign of “Bloody Mary” in England to see the results of men taking upon themselves the responsibility of separating true believers from false, a task reserved for God alone. Instead of requiring these false believers to be rooted out of the world, and possibly hurting immature believers in the process, Christ allows them to remain until His return. At that time, angels will separate the true from false believers.

In addition, we are not to take it upon ourselves to uproot unbelievers because the difference between true and false believers isn’t always obvious. Tares, especially in the early stages of growth, resemble wheat. Likewise, a false believer may resemble a true believer. InMatthew 7:22, Jesus warned that many profess faith but do not know Him. Thus, each person should examine his own relationship with Christ (2 Corinthians 13:5). First John is an excellent test of salvation.

Jesus Christ will one day establish true righteousness. After He raptures the true church out of this world, God will pour out His righteous wrath on the world. During that tribulation, He will draw others to saving faith in Jesus Christ. At the end of the tribulation, all unbelievers will be judged for their sin and unbelief; then, they will be removed from God’s presence. True followers of Christ will reign with Him. What a glorious hope for the “wheat”!


Read more:http://www.gotquestions.org/parable-wheat-tares.html#ixzz3f4LjYVTh

 

 

Where should I begin? We have such differing views! From the simple phrase “at hand” to the “true church” nonsense, from the “spiritual realm” to “heaven being a reality,” there’s just so much that is unscriptural! Oh, it all fits with the theological INTERPRETATIONS that one might have ABOUT the Scriptures, but there’s little continuity within the Scriptures themselves! 

 

All I can say at this point is this: Don’t rely so heavily on the theological rhetoric you’ve been taught. Instead, get back to understanding the complete contexts of the passages to which you cling.

 

For instance, consider this little gem: 'When Jesus said, “The kingdom of heaven is at hand” (Matthew 4:17;Matthew 3:2), He meant the spiritual realm which exists on earth side by side with the realm of the evil one (1 John 5:19).’

 

NO, HE DID NOT! He meant that the Kingdom from the sky was "within their grasp" WHILE HE WAS PRESENT ON THIS EARTH DURING HIS FIRST ADVENT! “At hand” does not mean that it “exists on earth side by side with the realm of the evil one!” It also does not mean that it was already “IN hand.” “At hand” means that it was “within reach” or “within their grasp.” All the Jews had to do was reach out and take it as offered! However, when Yeshua` left this earth and ascended to the sky, He no longer offered His Kingdom to Israel as He did for those 3.5 years of His “ministry.” Instead, that Kingdom was POSTPONED until He returns.

 

Matthew 3:1-12

1 In those days came John the Baptist, preaching (heralding) in the wilderness of Judaea,

2 And saying, Repent ye: for the kingdom of heaven is at hand.

3 For this is he that was spoken of by the prophet Esaias, saying, The voice of one crying in the wilderness, Prepare ye the way of the Lord, make his paths straight.

4 And the same John had his raiment of camel's hair, and a leathern girdle about his loins; and his meat was locusts and wild honey.

5 Then went out to him Jerusalem, and all Judaea, and all the region round about Jordan,

6 And were baptized of him in Jordan, confessing their sins.

7 But when he saw many of the Pharisees and Sadducees come to his baptism, he said unto them, O generation of vipers, who hath warned you to flee from the wrath to come?

8 Bring forth therefore fruits meet for repentance:

9 And think not to say within yourselves, We have Abraham to our father: for I say unto you, that God is able of these stones to raise up children unto Abraham.

10 And now also the axe is laid unto the root of the trees: therefore every tree which bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.

11 I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance: but he that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: he shall baptize you (plural, as a group) with the Holy Ghost, and with fire:

12 Whose fan is in his hand, and he will throughly purge his floor, and gather his wheat into the garner; but he will burn up the chaff with unquenchable fire.

KJV

 

 

Matthew 4:17-25

17 From that time Jesus began to preach (Greek: keerussein = herald), and to say, Repent: for the kingdom of heaven is at hand (eeggiken = near enough to be squeezed).

18 And Jesus, walking by the sea of Galilee, saw two brethren, Simon called Peter, and Andrew his brother, casting a net into the sea: for they were fishers.

19 And he saith unto them, Follow me, and I will make you fishers of men.

20 And they straightway left their nets, and followed him.

21 And going on from thence, he saw other two brethren, James the son of Zebedee, and John his brother, in a ship with Zebedee their father, mending their nets; and he called them.

22 And they immediately left the ship and their father, and followed him.

23 And Jesus went about all Galilee, teaching in their synagogues, and preaching the gospel of the kingdom (heralding the good news about the Kingdom), and healing all manner of sickness and all manner of disease among the people.

24 And his fame went throughout all Syria: and they brought unto him all sick people that were taken with divers diseases and torments, and those which were possessed with devils, and those which were lunatick, and those that had the palsy; and he healed them.

25 And there followed him great multitudes of people from Galilee, and from Decapolis, and from Jerusalem, and from Judaea, and from beyond Jordan.

KJV

 

The Kingdom which HE was heralding was already something every child of Israel read about at least once a year:

 

Isaiah 52:1-10

1 Awake, awake; put on thy strength, O Zion; put on thy beautiful garments, O Jerusalem, the holy city: for henceforth there shall no more come into thee the uncircumcised and the unclean.

2 Shake thyself from the dust; arise, and sit down, O Jerusalem: loose thyself from the bands of thy neck, O captive daughter of Zion.

3 For thus saith the LORD, Ye have sold yourselves for nought; and ye shall be redeemed without money.

4 For thus saith the LORD God, My people went down aforetime into Egypt to sojourn there; and the Assyrian oppressed them without cause.

5 Now therefore, what have I here, saith the LORD, that my people is taken away for nought? they that rule over them make them to howl, saith the LORD; and my name continually every day is blasphemed.

6 Therefore my people shall know my name: therefore they shall know in that day that I am he that doth speak: behold, it is I.

7 How beautiful upon the mountains are the feet of him that bringeth good tidings, that publisheth peace; that bringeth good tidings of good, that publisheth salvation; that saith unto Zion, Thy God reigneth!

8 Thy watchmen shall lift up the voice; with the voice together shall they sing: for they shall see eye to eye, when the LORD shall bring again Zion.

9 Break forth into joy, sing together, ye waste places of Jerusalem: for the LORD hath comforted his people, he hath redeemed Jerusalem.

10 The LORD hath made bare his holy arm in the eyes of all the nations; and all the ends of the earth shall see the salvation (deliverance; rescue) of our God.

KJV

 

This last phrase is often misunderstood. He is NOT saying that everyone would "see the COMING of the salvation of our God," as though that meant that they would "see the redemption that God would make through the death, burial and resurrection of the Lord Jesus Christ." He was saying that everyone in the other nations would WITNESS AND EXPERIENCE God’s rescue of His people, Israel! They would SEE IT HAPPEN!

[Pamelasv]

You have a very glaring fundamental flaw. Angels don't make mistakes. They only do as they are told to do by the Lord. If they were to make a mistake, that would mean that the Lord would make a mistake or at least allow one to be made on His behalf.

Yes, no kidding......

[Pamelasv]

I am shocked I was taken seriously on that. I guess I have to change my way of writing. Wow, I guess I need to be more vigilant on this phone when writing in here after all.

[Pamelasv]

Now, it clearly says, so they do not accidentally uproot the wheat also. So *Rick Parker*, don't get all hostile because I am going to request this thread be removed. It clearly says that. It's wonderful to all jumped over and judged when you have no idea who I am.

[gdemoss]

Some interesting veiws of the scriptures being brought to light here. The Kingdom of God is at hand for sure as the King is with us today though he be at the right hand of the father.

The end of the age is the harvest. All these grow together in his kingdom until the age ends and the new begins. Who are the tares in Gods kingdom and why would uprooting them be problematic for the wheat? I believe the answer lies in the simple illustration given. Wheat produces fruit while tares do not. Both have roots in the same soil and to pull tares up by the root is to disturb the ground that the wheat and tares are both in. Both end up uprooted.

At the end of the age it will not matter because it will be harvest time anyway and time to gather up all good wheat and put it in the barn. When this happens it will be undeniable. Are the angels supernatural that are spoken of here? I am not sure.

Thank for the thought provoking discussion.

[Pamelasv]

Some interesting veiws of the scriptures being brought to light here. The Kingdom of God is at hand for sure as the King is with us today though he be at the right hand of the father.

The end of the age is the harvest. All these grow together in his kingdom until the age ends and the new begins. Who are the tares in Gods kingdom and why would uprooting them be problematic for the wheat? I believe the answer lies in the simple illustration given. Wheat produces fruit while tares do not. Both have roots in the same soil and to pull tares up by the root is to disturb the ground that the wheat and tares are both in. Both end up uprooted.

At the end of the age it will not matter because it will be harvest time anyway and time to gather up all good wheat and put it in the barn. When this happens it will be undeniable. Are the angels supernatural that are spoken of here? I am not sure.

Thank for the thought provoking discussion.

Thankyou for that. Now to picture the wicked being uprooted, how then I guess would the righteous be uprooted. How so would it 'disturb' things here on earth. It might really be that not all believers become believers soon enough. As 'God desires all to be saved, and to come to the knowledge of the truth.' As we probably are aware that many people become believers on their natural death bed. Otherwise, they wouldn't have had a chance.

[thereselittleflower]

Maybe this will help settle things:

 

In the agricultural society of Christ’s time, many farmers depended on the quality of their crops. An enemy sowing weeds would have sabotaged a business. The tares in the parable were likely darnel because that weed, until mature, appears as wheat. Without modern weed killers, what would a wise farmer do in such a dilemma? Instead of tearing out the wheat with the tares, the landowner in this parable wisely waited until the harvest. After harvesting the whole field, the tares could be separated and burned. The wheat would be saved in the barn

Read more:http://www.gotquestions.org/parable-wheat-tares.html#ixzz3f7VG6oVF

[Guest]

Shalom, Rick_Parker.

 

You have a very glaring fundamental flaw. Angels don't make mistakes. They only do as they are told to do by the Lord. If they were to make a mistake, that would mean that the Lord would make a mistake or at least allow one to be made on His behalf.

 

Actually, it is you who has made a glaring fundamental flaw. You ASSUME that these “angels” are supernatural beings! YOU CAN’T KNOW THAT! The Greek word “aggelos” means a “MESSENGER.” That MAY be a “supernatural being,” but it may just as easily NOT be! The word “aggelos” was simply TRANSLITERATED into the English as “angel,” since the “gamma-gamma” consonant blend gives the “ng” sound.

 

However, there are times in the Scriptures when the Greek word “aggelos” actually refers to a HUMAN “messenger!” For instance, John the Baptist was said to be the Messiah’s “aggelos” in Matthew 11:10; Mark 1:2; and Luke 7:27. Also, John's disciples were also called “aggeloi,” the plural form of “aggelos,” in Luke 7:24. Yeshua`s (Jesus’) own disciples were called “aggeloi” in Luke 9:52. Indeed, the “angels” (“aggeloi”) in 1 Peter 1:12 may be argued to be the “prophets” in 1 Peter 1:10! Weren’t the prophets “messengers (aggeloi) of God?"

 

Besides, how do YOU know that “Angels (even supernatural beings) don’t make mistakes”? If it is true that haSatan used to be an “angel” of God, he sure made some mistakes, didn’t he?! Even if you want to say that he CHOSE to disobey God and made no mistake in his choice, his assumption that he could put his throne above God’s and get away with it was mistaken, wasn’t it?! And, I can GUARANTEE you that human messengers of God MAKE MISTAKES!

 

Don’t be too confident in your theological reasoning. Things aren’t always so "cut and dry" as we might like to believe they are.

WHY ARE YOU YELLING???? You are the one who said that "angels" made the mistake. Satan chose to rebel against GOD; he made a choice. After the rebellion, only Angels loyal to GOD do the will of GOD. A mistake is an unintentional error. Satan and the 1/3rd who rebelled did so with purpose. Your arguement is weak and irrelevant. Trying to twist words around to suit your arguement - this parable is clearly about heavenly Angels and not human "aggeloi" - only serves to show how defensive you have become over your simple misuse of words that has caused you obvious embarassment.

[Pamelasv]

Maybe this will help settle things:

In the agricultural society of Christ’s time, many farmers depended on the quality of their crops. An enemy sowing weeds would have sabotaged a business. The tares in the parable were likely darnel because that weed, until mature, appears as wheat. Without modern weed killers, what would a wise farmer do in such a dilemma? Instead of tearing out the wheat with the tares, the landowner in this parable wisely waited until the harvest. After harvesting the whole field, the tares could be separated and burned. The wheat would be saved in the barnRead more:http://www.gotquestions.org/parable-wheat-tares.html#ixzz3f7VG6oVF

It really doesn't settle anything because that says God doesn't even know who will become His. So thetefore, His angels will know when the time is right, because He will show them. Plus, in the spiritual world, we look alive with the Holy Sirit, and they can see that, so can the enemy. So angels would know. So therefore, the ones that have not come to the Lord yet, do not look that way, so since the angels are not all knowing, they do not, unless the Lord puts a marker on them. This is why I was thinking that it was perhaps because those people that were going to come to the Lord later, would be uprooted accidentally. Plus, I have heard the explanation before that they 'may become wheat', and really so far it is the only thing that fits.