do you believe that the first white horse has been released already

[missmuffet]

"These things must QUICKLY come to pass....."  'Quickly' in our text is the Greek Tachnos, meaning 'in rapid succession.'  I believe the 4th horseman has now been released.

 

What I say to you, I say to all:  PREPARE!

So you believe our world has endured all of the tragedies of the first three horses?

 

 

The first has come already.  It is the mystery of lawlessness.  The second horse was released around the time of printing press and it relates to media or propaganda.  Media has power to take peace from the earth and cause people to kill one another (Revelation 6:4).  For example, yellow journalism and the Spanish American war.  The third horse representing scales represents a fiat currency system we have.  According to Adam Smith in the Wealth of Nations "Land, however improved, will yield no revenue without a circulating capital.  This is how you do not damage the oil and wine, but cause two pounds of wheat to equal a day's wages (Revelation 6:6) by controlling who has more currency circulating.  The area that has more circulating currency will protect the oil and wine.  The fourth horse can be understood in the context of Zechariah 6.  The fourth horse goes south where a fourth of world will be killed by sword, famine, plague, and wild beasts (Revelation 6:8).  The clearest illustration of this would be the circumstances in Africa, or the southern part of the world.  

The fifth seal is where we are now.  We are the generation someone is saying "how much longer Lord," about(Revelation 6:10).  The next part that will happen is the witnesses will emerge wearing sackcloth, which either represents the sun turning to sackcloth (Revelation 6:12), or could indicate a eclipse as well the presence of the witnesses before an earthquake.  Then, the day and hour of the Lord return we do not know will be.  Rapture theory teaches us to be afraid that will things will get worse just like Preterism teaches peace, peace because prophecy has already been fulfilled.  

The Antichrist will emerge from the north, which is where the white horse (mystery of lawlessness) goes with the black horse (fiat economy) according to Zechariah 6:6, which is how the mark of the beast will emerge.  

 

I totally disagree with your interpretation.

[Esther4:14]

Esther, I don't agree. Four horsemen of the Apocalypse are part of the Apocalypse not since prehistoric times. 1st is envision of future victory of Christ, second the need for some kind of battle to gain it, third speaks of the huger of economic difficulties and last devastation from the Apocalypse or the Antichrists wrongdoings.

The four horses set the stage for the Antichrist.  They are preparing the way to reveal the son of perdition.  I did not suggest this started in prehistoric times?  The first does not represent the victory of Christ.  They are all servants of the beast.  You are speaking of them with no actual application of them.  This is just directly pulling them from the prophecy.  Although, the third speaks of oppression.  There is a class division.  

So, how long do you suppose this all will take?  Seven years?  I don't know how proponents of this seven-year theory actually expect all of the book of Revelation to take place in seven years like some sort of action movie with the Rock.  I don't even think an action movie could fit everything into it.  Like the only thing Obama was able to do in seven years, was create Obama care.  The seven years will more than likely only represent the time of the beast and the witnesses characterized by sackcloth (Revelation 6:12; Revelation 11:3); and the reference to 1260 days (Revelation 11:3; Revelation 13:5) places all of this taking place at the same time when the sixth seal is opened.  But, the seals will have already been opened.    

Take care.  

Edited August 28, 2015 by Esther4:14

[Esther4:14]

Edited September 2, 2015 by Esther4:14
took San's comment out

[AllTheGoodNamesAreTaken]

If I may remind you that even though we ( as believers ) sometimes disagree, we should respect one another. 

Also, the TOS states;

"Debate the subject, not the person. It is possible to disagree about a doctrine or subject under discussion without insulting the person with whom you are debating. Also remember that the fact that a person disagrees with you does not mean they are attacking you as a person. Respect each other in the love of God! This is the main reason that threads get stopped, shut down, and even deleted! Users that cannot respect others will be banned. (Lev. 19:18)"

 

[FresnoJoe]

And to be honest I think you're lying. Plus I'm not here to have debates but to tell what I know and also to learn from some people....

~

I hope most Christians are not deluded like you. And be not lied about these things too. I see your interpretations are a bit communist.....

~

Beloved

And a servant of the Lord must not be quarrelsome, but he must be kind to everyone, able to teach, and forbearing. 2 Timothy 2:24 (Berean Study Bible)

Prehaps You Are Learning

A man is not defiled by what enters his mouth, but by what comes out of it." Matthew 15:11 (Berean Study Bible) 

From Folks Who Would Be Better Left To Walk Alone

But the wisdom from above is first of all pure, then peaceable, gentle, accommodating, full of mercy and good fruit, impartial, and sincere. James 3:17 (Berean Study Bible)

You Think....

The steadfast love of the Lord never ceases;
his mercies never come to an end;
they are new every morning;
great is your faithfulness.
“The Lord is my portion,” says my soul,
“therefore I will hope in him.” Lamentations 3:22-24 (English Standard Version)

Love, Your Brother Joe

[WilliamL]

When I get on my high horse, I usually find Jesus rides off on his donkey

And when the false christs and false prophets prophesied by Jesus in Matt. 24 get on their high horses and ride...we have the First Seal fulfilled.

Frankly, I see a lot of both of those types these days...much more than I can remember ever seeing in my 65 years.

Think about this ..

Revelation 6:4(a) And there went out another horse that was red: and power was given to him that sat thereon to take peace from the earth, and that they should kill one another: and there was given unto him a great sword.

Matthew 24:7(a) For nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom

Yes there have always been wars, but this red horse has a specific mission .. to taking peace from the earth .. and since the peace is a world peace being taken away (take peace from the earth) then the result of this horses riding has to, by his very mission specs alone,  must lead to global unrest .. for peace is taken from the earth as a consequence of his riding ..

The sword of the 2nd Seal is a machaira:

1. a large knife, used for killing animals and cutting up flesh

2. a small sword, as distinguished from a large sword

-- the same type of weapon being used by ISIS and ISIS-wannabees, to behead and/or butcher innocents. Which actions are leading the whole earth into a Middle-Eastern followed by worldwide war.

3rd Seal: famine caused by an economic crisis, leaving people destitute. On the immediate horizon.

 

[Esther4:14]

 

3rd Seal: famine caused by an economic crisis, leaving people destitute. On the immediate horizon.

 

The famines are caused by a fluctuation in circulating currency which Adam Smith describes throughout The Wealth of Nations.  There is some control over the scales according to the prophecy so that one side is able to continue having oil and wine while the other side struggles to buy bread (Revelation 6:6).  This has been possible since the explorers began amassing gold from other places to use as currency, which has stimulated the economy of several occasion and simultaneously could cripple it.  It all depends on who is in control of the circulating currency, which is why it represents the fulfillment of the 3rd seal.  This has already created famines.  The great depression in an example.  Not everyone suffered during The Great Depression because they still maintained their pile of circulating currency while the rest of population suffered a loss.   

[Last Daze]

When I get on my high horse, I usually find Jesus rides off on his donkey

And when the false christs and false prophets prophesied by Jesus in Matt. 24 get on their high horses and ride...we have the First Seal fulfilled.

Frankly, I see a lot of both of those types these days...much more than I can remember ever seeing in my 65 years.

I agree and think it is even more broad than that.  Consider this verse carefully:

For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many.  Matthew 24:5

To paraphrase this verse for clarity...Many who claim to be Christians shall come, and they will even profess that Jesus is the Christ, yet their doctrine deceives many.

Most people see this verse as referring to false christs but it doesn't make sense that they would both "come in Christ's name" AND claim to be Christ.  There certainly will be false christs but this speaks to a more broad falling away as I see it, a war on truth that leads to false teachers and apostasy.  The first seal rider leads the charge.

[other one]

When I get on my high horse, I usually find Jesus rides off on his donkey

And when the false christs and false prophets prophesied by Jesus in Matt. 24 get on their high horses and ride...we have the First Seal fulfilled.

Frankly, I see a lot of both of those types these days...much more than I can remember ever seeing in my 65 years.

I agree and think it is even more broad than that.  Consider this verse carefully:

For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many.  Matthew 24:5

To paraphrase this verse for clarity...Many who claim to be Christians shall come, and they will even profess that Jesus is the Christ, yet their doctrine deceives many.

Most people see this verse as referring to false christs but it doesn't make sense that they would both "come in Christ's name" AND claim to be Christ.  There certainly will be false christs but this speaks to a more broad falling away as I see it, a war on truth that leads to false teachers and apostasy.  The first seal rider leads the charge.

test for android firefox and quotes

[Esther4:14]

 

And when the false christs and false prophets prophesied by Jesus in Matt. 24 get on their high horses and ride...we have the First Seal fulfilled.

Frankly, I see a lot of both of those types these days...much more than I can remember ever seeing in my 65 years.

I agree and think it is even more broad than that.  Consider this verse carefully:

For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many.  Matthew 24:5

To paraphrase this verse for clarity...Many who claim to be Christians shall come, and they will even profess that Jesus is the Christ, yet their doctrine deceives many.

Most people see this verse as referring to false christs but it doesn't make sense that they would both "come in Christ's name" AND claim to be Christ.  There certainly will be false christs but this speaks to a more broad falling away as I see it, a war on truth that leads to false teachers and apostasy.  The first seal rider leads the charge.

So, then you are saying that the first seal has already been opened?  Because this phenomenon describes the mystery of lawlessness that was already at work when the apostles were preached about the resurrection of Christ and the forgiveness of sins (2 Thessalonians 2:7).  

I think this is one of the challenging things about understanding the seals is that there does have to be an identifying feature that differentiates itself from ordinary life.  I always consider the verse that describes where Jesus really rode on a donkey to mark the fulfillment of the prophecy (Zechariah 9:9; Matthew 21:7-8) as a significant even for comparison.  There has to be some sort of identifying feature to distinguish life before the fulfillment of prophecy from life afterward.  

Therefore, what you are suggesting as the definition of the first seal, which I don't disagree with, has already happened.  Then, the challenge becomes finding the next distinguishing characteristic that will differentiate the description of war within the second seal, from the history that has always included testimony of wars and death by the sword (Revelation 6:3-4).  

Whether that doesn't seem necessary to you for whatever reason, the fact remains that what both of you are describing suggests that the first seal was opened a long time ago.  Therefore, this would suggest that there is a significant gap between the opening of the 1st seal and the 2nd if I am correct in assuming that you would not agree that the second has already been opened.  

Peace.