The term " Born Again Christian " is unbiblical

[gdemoss]

The quote feature still broken

[gdemoss]

Gal 4:19 My little children, of whom I travail in birth again until Christ be formed in you What does it mean to be born again?  I see it above. Jhn 6:66   From that time many of his disciples went back, and walked no more with him.  Followers can stop following.  What is a Christian but one who follows Christ? Is it then possible that one can follow as a Christian then be born again thus a Born Again Christian? Brother g-demos, Your post reminds me of Graduations, in Gal, 4:19, ( the relationship of students  and their teacher), and the persistence of the teacher not to quit, till he has help anyone to graduate.  In Jon 6:16, why did Jesus had to say, those harsh words to the people that follow him, (and that's before the Cross),  Does that makes a deference?  Well to Jesus it did. He had a mission to complete within a time frame. He wanted to choose the people around him, not the other way around.  He wanted the crowd to follow him, but not that time,  they must reject him first, all the way to the Cross.  Jesus had concepts in his mind, when he said those harsh words, to make people feel disgusted and go away, that time for them to follow him, will come later on. They must first shed his blood,  and give him death, (the blood of the new covenant, and his death, ( not without his death). Those people new the concept, that Christ, will bring forgiveness of sins, they wittness Jesus forgive people, and some of them had the baptism of Jonh, but they saw Jesus giving forgiveness without the baptism and without repentance.  They were following him, waiting for Jesus the Christ to tell them that you sins are forgiven you, and go home justified;  Jesus new it and he was telling them, it want happen this way, you must offer me, as a human sacrifice first, to get from me the blood of the new covenant ( you must kill me first). They understood very well what he was telling them, but that's a no, no, for them, it was prohibited in the Law.  in the O.T. Thats how they had forgiveness of sins. The high priest takes the blood of the dead animal and cover the altar with blood, and you don't see any more the names of the people.          Represented by the names of the twelve tribes. The Lord can see them filter through the  blood of the sacrifice, he see in the people the quality of the blood of the dead animal, as the animal was so they were too, that's why they had to choose a perfect, animal, to make them selfs perfect. Paul is taulking about the birth of a new unterstanding in a believer, and that will happen repeated times in our life.  But Jesus is the one who gives the life in people by faith alone, in any state they are, that's why we say we under the blood of Jesus Christ, as he is so are we, God see us filter through the blood of Jesus by faith, and he gives us his spirit, we are no more separated from him. ( Jesus is not and so are we). I know you did not ask for that, but is all related, and that's how I could respond to you post, ( I did not high jack your post, just see, it was related.

The quote feature is frustrating

thank you for sharing your thoughts 

[KPaulG]

Gal 4:19 My little children, of whom I travail in birth again until Christ be formed in you What does it mean to be born again?  I see it above. Jhn 6:66   From that time many of his disciples went back, and walked no more with him.  Followers can stop following.  What is a Christian but one who follows Christ? Is it then possible that one can follow as a Christian then be born again thus a Born Again Christian? Brother g-demos, Your post reminds me of Graduations, in Gal, 4:19, ( the relationship of students  and their teacher), and the persistence of the teacher not to quit, till he has help anyone to graduate.  In Jon 6:16, why did Jesus had to say, those harsh words to the people that follow him, (and that's before the Cross),  Does that makes a deference?  Well to Jesus it did. He had a mission to complete within a time frame. He wanted to choose the people around him, not the other way around.  He wanted the crowd to follow him, but not that time,  they must reject him first, all the way to the Cross.  Jesus had concepts in his mind, when he said those harsh words, to make people feel disgusted and go away, that time for them to follow him, will come later on. They must first shed his blood,  and give him death, (the blood of the new covenant, and his death, ( not without his death). Those people new the concept, that Christ, will bring forgiveness of sins, they wittness Jesus forgive people, and some of them had the baptism of Jonh, but they saw Jesus giving forgiveness without the baptism and without repentance.  They were following him, waiting for Jesus the Christ to tell them that you sins are forgiven you, and go home justified;  Jesus new it and he was telling them, it want happen this way, you must offer me, as a human sacrifice first, to get from me the blood of the new covenant ( you must kill me first). They understood very well what he was telling them, but that's a no, no, for them, it was prohibited in the Law.  in the O.T. Thats how they had forgiveness of sins. The high priest takes the blood of the dead animal and cover the altar with blood, and you don't see any more the names of the people.          Represented by the names of the twelve tribes. The Lord can see them filter through the  blood of the sacrifice, he see in the people the quality of the blood of the dead animal, as the animal was so they were too, that's why they had to choose a perfect, animal, to make them selfs perfect. Paul is taulking about the birth of a new unterstanding in a believer, and that will happen repeated times in our life.  But Jesus is the one who gives the life in people by faith alone, in any state they are, that's why we say we under the blood of Jesus Christ, as he is so are we, God see us filter through the blood of Jesus by faith, and he gives us his spirit, we are no more separated from him. ( Jesus is not and so are we). I know you did not ask for that, but is all related, and that's how I could respond to you post, ( I did not high jack your post, just see, it was related.

The quote feature is frustrating

thank you for sharing your thoughts 

Yes, it is to me, too, gdemoss.

 

God Bless you.

 

Your brother in Christ,

KPaulG.

Edited October 5, 2015 by KPaulG

[hmbld]

So I can claim to be a Christian, or born again, but not both as it may offend?

[Your closest friendnt]

So I can claim to be a Christian, or born again, but not both as it may offend?

It can be correct depents upon someone's definitions, 

someone who believes,  is born from above, whether he knows it, or not. But to many he is not a Christian unless he has repented and is a good role model and has earn the approval of others, that are not ashamed to invite him in their fellowship. Is the fruit they are looking, to have both the faith and the fruit of the faith.

to them "Born Again" is a very spcial title, that you must earn it. 

Far from Grace, and the finish work of the Lord. 

For my self, I must not follow them even thought I am a repented believer. When I meet believers from any background I remove the fear from Hell and tell them, you belong to haven,  keep believing no matter what, they don't go to church anyway but they believe. I leave them with the love of Jesus Christ, I give them the peace of Jesus in this matter so the devil can not torment them that they are going to Hell, because of their works, telling them  that their faith in Jesus is not enough, if they dont have the obedience in life. 

I have been there and I understand them. When they seem me they are happy and offer me free beer. and they have stop tauking bad about God, and I teach them not to see Jesus throu the actions of his representatives here on earth, past and present,many of them are from Catholic background and are very happy to be save by Jesus without the church and the priest. that's my ministry and the Lord makes me very happy when I remove the fear of Hell from them. He said; don't worry about their habits, that's my bussisnes. Some they are addicts, what can you do, they don't know anything else.( sorry just happen to use your posting, but it clic to me maybe it is appropriate or relevant, is not that I vent out my feelings, please don't see it that way. Your brother in Christ. I know you understand the grace of Jesus, his finish work, perhaps that's why, any way, God Bless.

[SavedOnebyGrace]

So I can claim to be a Christian, or born again, but not both as it may offend?

We should not base the Gospel message on who it might offend.  For example, the rainbow a sign of restoration in Noah's time has now been perverted by the Gay community.  The word "Gay" itself is a perversion of the original meaning of the word.  Jesus said that:

21“Brother will betray brother to death, and a father his child; children will rebel against their parents and have them put to death.22You will be hated by everyone because of me, but the one who stands firm to the end will be saved.23When you are persecuted in one place, flee to another. Truly I tell you, you will not finish going through the towns of Israel before the Son of Man comes.

24“The student is not above the teacher, nor a servant above his master.25It is enough for students to be like their teachers, and servants like their masters. If the head of the house has been called Beelzebul, how much more the members of his household!

26“So do not be afraid of them, for there is nothing concealed that will not be disclosed, or hidden that will not be made known.27What I tell you in the dark, speak in the daylight; what is whispered in your ear, proclaim from the roofs.28Do not be afraid of those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. Rather, be afraid of the One who can destroy both soul and body in hell.29Are not two sparrows sold for a penny? Yet not one of them will fall to the ground outside your Father’s care.30And even the very hairs of your head are all numbered.31So don’t be afraid; you are worth more than many sparrows.

32“Whoever acknowledges me before others, I will also acknowledge before my Father in heaven.33But whoever disowns me before others, I will disown before my Father in heaven.

34“Do not suppose that I have come to bring peace to the earth. I did not come to bring peace, but a sword.35For I have come to turn

“ ‘a man against his father,

a daughter against her mother,

a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law—

36a man’s enemies will be the members of his own household.’^c

37“Anyone who loves their father or mother more than me is not worthy of me; anyone who loves their son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me.38Whoever does not take up their cross and follow me is not worthy of me.39Whoever finds their life will lose it, and whoever loses their life for my sake will find it.

40“Anyone who welcomes you welcomes me, and anyone who welcomes me welcomes the one who sent me.41Whoever welcomes a prophet as a prophet will receive a prophet’s reward, and whoever welcomes a righteous person as a righteous person will receive a righteous person’s reward.42And if anyone gives even a cup of cold water to one of these little ones who is my disciple, truly I tell you, that person will certainly not lose their reward.”  [NIV]

Edited October 6, 2015 by Saved.One.by.Grace

[enoob57]

So I can claim to be a Christian, or born again, but not both as it may offend?

How dare you

[hmbld]

So I can claim to be a Christian, or born again, but not both as it may offend?

How dare you

still trying to figure out if this thread is serious lol. Would a person be offended by those words grouped together if they are born again?  Idunnohow. 

[Righttruth]

Too often I come across the term " Born Again Christian " .

The term will not be found in the Bible .

The term is actually theological nonsense......Just think about it......it doesn't make sense.....it was never used by Jesus .

Jesus meant that to be 'born from above'! Of course, 'born again' claim is in tune with Paul with his self-claim of apostleship! It is the fruit of the Spirit that will decide that, not any emotional burst of sounds or actions!

In your post you referring to a matter that has been in concidarasion  with me for some time, how to aliviate the fear of going to Hell. Or how to remove doubts of whether someone belongs to Jesus or not. (resulting going to heaven).

or the struggle to prove to ones self that I have establish my self in the faith and there is no way that I will ever denied my belief in Jesus Christ no matter what comes along in my life.

While is good to establish ones self in the knowledge of Christ, still we have to look where it all began, and what Jesus Christ knows about someone who has believed regardless of this individual's  understanding. Which is relevant and also irrelevant both to Jesus and to the believer.

We all very well know that the righteousness of Jesus Christ is imputed upon someone when Jesus   ( and or the Holly Spirit) sees faith in the heart of someone who has just believed. For with the heart someone believes unto righteousness. This is the same for anyone regardless of their background and or phycical or mental well been.( mentally chalenge people and deaf and mute individuals or sick and weak).

Someone is righteous in Jesus, when Jesus says that you are righteous in my name, not when a person becomes consious and when he is trying to convince ones self in a variety of ways that he has the righteousness of Jesus Christ by faith. This is an attempt to depart from self inflicted sorrow. 

We see that the righteousness of Jesus is imputed upon someone before any verbal   or other method of conffesion ( which are quite few).

And also the righteousness of Jesus is imputed before repentance of any kind of works or defects of character. 

For any one who has denied in the past faith in Jesus as the Christ, the repentance of faith for him, or her, (also could be a child), comes before an individual believes that Jesus has died for his sins, and the sins of the whole world or before at some point, and it is in the heart of the person, whether it is express with a type of conffesion or not. 

At the same time of belief an individual together with the gift of righteousness, also recieves the deposit of the spirit, and the Gift of eternal life, and a place in heaven to be with Jesus Christ if he keeps believing in him  till he departs from this world. 

Your faith that Jesus died for your sins, for the seal of the Holly Spirit that you belong to GOD or to Heavens.

Repentance  of works and or defects of caracter brings salvation from those afflictions,  

We already have establish fellowship with Jesus through faith alone,

and we may continiou to grow in pursuing  an active fellowship with him through the Holy Spirit while we lived.

 

The term 'imputed' is borrowed from Paul's letters. A doctrine that is questionable. Those who endure to the end will be saved. Self-consoling concepts are dangerous.

I don't know of any other way to have the righteousness of Jesus and some one must have his righteousness to identified with him and be in right standing with the Father.

Can that be achieved in any other way?

We need the blood of the new covenant, is it not our sins cover with the blood of Jesus, by faith alone, when we believe? And if continiun to believe till the end of our life. And inspite if many trials to not let go of your faith. 

(do you know the testing, as a Jew and or Moslem that believes, some times cut off from all his family, and some times even today in our time is death).

Philip, after explaining what happen to Jesus in Jerusalem and his resuraction, the Ethiopian said;"I believe that Jesus is the Son of God" and Philip baptize him. 

Did Philip baptize someone without having the righteousness of Jesus Christ? 

Did not the Ethiopian identifies with Jesus when he believed?

Does not the scripture says, that the one with faith in Jesus is not afraid of death, his is under the banner (blood) of Jesus Christ. He does not definitely belongs to the Antichrist and his is not the child of the Devil.

Tell how you see the whole picture, you have something good to say, then say it. I am not going to bite you. Your Brother

Jesus is the way, the life and the truth. So, it is not one dimensional of mere belief. You need  to believe Him, walk in His steps, suffer, sacrifice, share and serve. At the end God will say well done my  son. It is a life long run to reach the goal set for you whether you like it  or not!

This a scripture that it means a lot for me, but not for a big part of my life, with faith in Jesus Christ. 

Just because I have been inlighted to desire to follow Jesus, but not to be save from Hell, because I was allready saved from Hell. But I wanted to lived in Gods will and be usefull to him, and that help me in my repentance of some things, and help me in renewing my mind, and I know that Jesus is recognizing that, cause he is the one, together with my self who help me in that achievement, I am quite and more than sure, that now, in this moment maybe telling me, well done "good fella", just to be humble, that was my wish to here him saying that to me, here  in this life, I long to have this blessing, and he is able to make it happen.

In the heavens also, and why does he has to wait for me to get there first, just to be proud in front of others, he can say that in heavens in his conversation with the Father, look at my beautiful and faithful children, they make me very happy.

at the same time, I will never say to any one, "don't believe in Jesus unless, you ready to pick up your cross and follow him". Or your faith is not enough to be bought by the blood of Jesus Christ. 

In the contrary. I wil say , even if you are weak in the flesh or your strength Still beleive, even thought the devil may be buthering you, here on earth, but he want in heaven, I will say keep believing, and tell your children, follow the good in me, but not my weaknesses , till you learn better than me to follow Jesus.

Are you God to claim that you are already saved based on some convenient verses? Your effort should continue till your last breath. There is no retirement in our salvation walk!. Saving is that of heavenly phenomenon. Picking up cross and following him was required of His disciples. If you can't, you still have a minor role to play that pleases Him. But that should be admitted by you.

Thinking that you see and recognize your children has no solid scriptural backing. In what forms and shapes we all would be in a sex-less environment, we don't know!

We are saved by faith only.  Any works you can dream up to do will not help you gain salvation, only gain will be to be in a right relationship with Jesus.  

Too often I come across the term " Born Again Christian " .

The term will not be found in the Bible .

The term is actually theological nonsense......Just think about it......it doesn't make sense.....it was never used by Jesus .

Jesus meant that to be 'born from above'! Of course, 'born again' claim is in tune with Paul with his self-claim of apostleship! It is the fruit of the Spirit that will decide that, not any emotional burst of sounds or actions!

In your post you referring to a matter that has been in concidarasion  with me for some time, how to aliviate the fear of going to Hell. Or how to remove doubts of whether someone belongs to Jesus or not. (resulting going to heaven).

or the struggle to prove to ones self that I have establish my self in the faith and there is no way that I will ever denied my belief in Jesus Christ no matter what comes along in my life.

While is good to establish ones self in the knowledge of Christ, still we have to look where it all began, and what Jesus Christ knows about someone who has believed regardless of this individual's  understanding. Which is relevant and also irrelevant both to Jesus and to the believer.

We all very well know that the righteousness of Jesus Christ is imputed upon someone when Jesus   ( and or the Holly Spirit) sees faith in the heart of someone who has just believed. For with the heart someone believes unto righteousness. This is the same for anyone regardless of their background and or phycical or mental well been.( mentally chalenge people and deaf and mute individuals or sick and weak).

Someone is righteous in Jesus, when Jesus says that you are righteous in my name, not when a person becomes consious and when he is trying to convince ones self in a variety of ways that he has the righteousness of Jesus Christ by faith. This is an attempt to depart from self inflicted sorrow. 

We see that the righteousness of Jesus is imputed upon someone before any verbal   or other method of conffesion ( which are quite few).

And also the righteousness of Jesus is imputed before repentance of any kind of works or defects of character. 

For any one who has denied in the past faith in Jesus as the Christ, the repentance of faith for him, or her, (also could be a child), comes before an individual believes that Jesus has died for his sins, and the sins of the whole world or before at some point, and it is in the heart of the person, whether it is express with a type of conffesion or not. 

At the same time of belief an individual together with the gift of righteousness, also recieves the deposit of the spirit, and the Gift of eternal life, and a place in heaven to be with Jesus Christ if he keeps believing in him  till he departs from this world. 

Your faith that Jesus died for your sins, for the seal of the Holly Spirit that you belong to GOD or to Heavens.

Repentance  of works and or defects of caracter brings salvation from those afflictions,  

We already have establish fellowship with Jesus through faith alone,

and we may continiou to grow in pursuing  an active fellowship with him through the Holy Spirit while we lived.

 

The term 'imputed' is borrowed from Paul's letters. A doctrine that is questionable. Those who endure to the end will be saved. Self-consoling concepts are dangerous.

I don't know of any other way to have the righteousness of Jesus and some one must have his righteousness to identified with him and be in right standing with the Father.

Can that be achieved in any other way?

We need the blood of the new covenant, is it not our sins cover with the blood of Jesus, by faith alone, when we believe? And if continiun to believe till the end of our life. And inspite if many trials to not let go of your faith. 

(do you know the testing, as a Jew and or Moslem that believes, some times cut off from all his family, and some times even today in our time is death).

Philip, after explaining what happen to Jesus in Jerusalem and his resuraction, the Ethiopian said;"I believe that Jesus is the Son of God" and Philip baptize him. 

Did Philip baptize someone without having the righteousness of Jesus Christ? 

Did not the Ethiopian identifies with Jesus when he believed?

Does not the scripture says, that the one with faith in Jesus is not afraid of death, his is under the banner (blood) of Jesus Christ. He does not definitely belongs to the Antichrist and his is not the child of the Devil.

Tell how you see the whole picture, you have something good to say, then say it. I am not going to bite you. Your Brother

Jesus is the way, the life and the truth. So, it is not one dimensional of mere belief. You need  to believe Him, walk in His steps, suffer, sacrifice, share and serve. At the end God will say well done my  son. It is a life long run to reach the goal set for you whether you like it  or not!

This a scripture that it means a lot for me, but not for a big part of my life, with faith in Jesus Christ. 

Just because I have been inlighted to desire to follow Jesus, but not to be save from Hell, because I was allready saved from Hell. But I wanted to lived in Gods will and be usefull to him, and that help me in my repentance of some things, and help me in renewing my mind, and I know that Jesus is recognizing that, cause he is the one, together with my self who help me in that achievement, I am quite and more than sure, that now, in this moment maybe telling me, well done "good fella", just to be humble, that was my wish to here him saying that to me, here  in this life, I long to have this blessing, and he is able to make it happen.

In the heavens also, and why does he has to wait for me to get there first, just to be proud in front of others, he can say that in heavens in his conversation with the Father, look at my beautiful and faithful children, they make me very happy.

at the same time, I will never say to any one, "don't believe in Jesus unless, you ready to pick up your cross and follow him". Or your faith is not enough to be bought by the blood of Jesus Christ. 

In the contrary. I wil say , even if you are weak in the flesh or your strength Still beleive, even thought the devil may be buthering you, here on earth, but he want in heaven, I will say keep believing, and tell your children, follow the good in me, but not my weaknesses , till you learn better than me to follow Jesus.

Are you God to claim that you are already saved based on some convenient verses? Your effort should continue till your last breath. There is no retirement in our salvation walk!. Saving is that of heavenly phenomenon. Picking up cross and following him was required of His disciples. If you can't, you still have a minor role to play that pleases Him. But that should be admitted by you.

Thinking that you see and recognize your children has no solid scriptural backing. In what forms and shapes we all would be in a sex-less environment, we don't know!

We are saved by faith only.  Any works you can dream up to do will not help you gain salvation, only gain will be to be in a right relationship with Jesus.  

If you don't produce the ruit of the Spirit, you are lost!

[enoob57]

So I can claim to be a Christian, or born again, but not both as it may offend?

How dare you

still trying to figure out if this thread is serious lol. Would a person be offended by those words grouped together if they are born again?  Idunnohow. 

right there with ya