When is Satan/Dragon/Devil thrown out of Heaven

[Ezra]

I believe the devil was cast out when Jesus died on the cross. Jesus paid for the sins of the world, the devil has nothing left to accuse us of, he was judged on the cross and made a public spectacle.

Context is important when we try to understand what the Scriptures teach us. In John 12:31 we have the judgment of the world and the prince of this world -- Satan as viewed from the Cross. The power of Satan over sinners was destroyed at the Cross, and the sins of the whole world were judged in Christ. But Satan himself remains "the prince of the power of the air" (as Paul clearly teaches) and will continue to have this position until just before the Antichrist takes control (Revelation 12).  It is then that he is cast out of the first and second heavens, and can no longer be "the accuser of the brethren".

[Last Daze]

• Now judgment is upon this world; now the ruler of this world will be cast out.  John 12:31

This verse is a reference to what Jesus accomplished by becoming flesh and dwelling among us.

Now (because the Light has shined in the world exposing men's deeds) judgment is upon this world.

• This is the judgment, that the Light has come into the world, and men loved the darkness rather than the Light, for their deeds were evil.  John 3:19
• And Jesus said, “For judgment I came into this world, so that those who do not see may see, and that those who see may become blind.”  John 9:39

Now (because of Christ's overcoming of the world) the (current) ruler of this world will be cast out (when Christ returns). 

Christ overcame the world and consequently is the only person anywhere worthy to open the seals and the scroll.  Satan will be cast out, into the abyss, when Christ returns and rightfully governs the earth, on the day of the Lord, at the seventh trumpet / bowl.

[Montana Marv]

Last Daze

What gives:  Some of your writing style, is similar to how I write.  Just noticed that.  (...)  [...] Bold and the like.

In Christ

Montana Marv

[Spock]

So, what is the consensus here as to when Satan is thrown out of heaven?


1. When Jesus died at Calvary, and thus won back right to rule planet Earth

Or

2. It is in the future- in the middle of the final 7 year period, right when the AC does his abomination thing?

Or

3. Both of the above.

Or

4. None of the above.

[Last Daze]

Last Daze

What gives:  Some of your writing style, is similar to how I write.  Just noticed that.  (...)  [...] Bold and the like.

In Christ

Montana Marv

Yeah, there is a bit of an overlap (in writing style) there.

[Sister]

 

I believe the devil was cast out when Jesus died on the cross. Jesus paid for the sins of the world, the devil has nothing left to accuse us of, he was judged on the cross and made a public spectacle.

Context is important when we try to understand what the Scriptures teach us. In John 12:31 we have the judgment of the world and the prince of this world -- Satan as viewed from the Cross. The power of Satan over sinners was destroyed at the Cross, and the sins of the whole world were judged in Christ. But Satan himself remains "the prince of the power of the air" (as Paul clearly teaches) and will continue to have this position until just before the Antichrist takes control (Revelation 12).  It is then that he is cast out of the first and second heavens, and can no longer be "the accuser of the brethren".

Ezra

Satan being the prince of the power of the air does not mean he has access to heaven anymore.  Why is everyone confused about heaven these days?  Scripture does not say anything about Satan being cast out of the first and second heavens, it says he was cast out of "heaven".  Heaven is where God's throne is, and where his angels abide.  Satan was causing trouble there and has been cast to the earth. This is where the action is for him, to decieve man now, this is where he is bound, earth.  Who is he going to deceive above earth in the universe or the sky?

If Satan is the prince of the power of the air as scripture states, it means he is spirit and is like the wind.  He has his "princes" under him, his angels.  They are in the air but we cannot see them.

 

Edited November 9, 2015 by Sister

[Retrobyter]

Shalom, WilliamL. 

When we see the word “heaven” in Revelation 12:3,4,7,8, we automatically assume that this is a reference to the third heaven (where the throne of God is located). But then we see the word “heavens” (plural) in verse 12, which should immediately remind us that there are indeed three heavens (the atmosphere and stratosphere, which is the first heaven, outer space, which is the second heaven, and Heaven itself, which is the third heaven).

Ancient Hebraic teachings say that the three heavens are levels of 1) soul/nephesh, 2) spirit/ruach, and 3) breath-light/neshamah, each having its own resident spirits. The second heaven is the level of the throne of judgment, wherein the seraphim are resident. Is. 6

The first/lowest heaven is that wherein the cherubim reside. Ezek. 10:20

Our world is where ophanim reside. Ezek. 1:15ff.

The highest heaven is the Sanctuary above, into which Jesus came to minister as HIgh Priest.

When "God sits on his throne," like a king does, he is lowering himself in order to be able to deal with subjects of a lower level than himself, like a king does when he holds court. This is why the heavenly throne is not the highest heaven, but one level lower.

Don’t read too much into those “ancient Hebraic teachings.” That’s Kabbalah or Cabala teaching, and it’s just as bad as the Occult!

Also, don’t get too distracted by the names; “ophaniym” simply means “flying ones” or “winged ones.” “Keruviym” is a little trickier to understand, but by comparing Ezekiel 1 to Ezekiel 10, one can discern that a “keruv” (cherub) is simply an ox form. And, a “seraf" ( or "seraph," plural, "seraphiym") simply means a “burning one,” and is described as a flying serpent!

Just study out the simplicity behind Genesis 2:7. It has NOTHING to do with the supposed “three levels of heavens!"

[Retrobyter]

Shalom, Ezra. 

When we see the word “heaven” in Revelation 12:3,4,7,8, we automatically assume that this is a reference to the third heaven (where the throne of God is located). But then we see the word “heavens” (plural) in verse 12, which should immediately remind us that there are indeed three heavens (the atmosphere and stratosphere, which is the first heaven, outer space, which is the second heaven, and Heaven itself, which is the third heaven).

Satan and his evil angels were cast out of the third heaven and into the first and second heavens as soon as they rebelled against God (Isa 14:12-17; Ezek 28:1-19). They are presently in the first and second heavens (“the air”) hence Satan is “the prince of the power of the air”, and he has hierarchies of powerful angels under him (Eph 6:12) who are battling Christians daily.  Satan accuses Christians daily from this location.

Thus when we see Michael and his angels casting down Satan and his evil angels to the earth in Revelation 12 (which is just prior to the reign of the Antichrist), we should understand that Satan is not being cast out of the third heaven (Heaven itself), but out of the first and second heavens.  God’s Heaven will not tolerate anything that is evil or sinful, and when we see Satan in conversation with God in the book of Job, we should not assume that that conversation took place in God’s Heaven. 

When “the sons of God” came to present themselves before the Lord (Job 1:6;2:1), it could well have been in outer space.  It does not say “before the throne of God”, and just as God (the pre-incarnate Word, Christ) came to earth from time to time and met with men, God met with the angels (both good and evil) outside the purest of heavens (Paradise, where Paul entered, and heard words which he could not repeat, 2 Cor 12:1-5).

There you go again with the spatial referencing of the 1st, 2nd, and 3rd heavens! You CAN’T FIND THAT IN THE BIBLE! It’s NOT spatial! It’s CHRONOLOGICAL! The first heaven was the sky around the first earth before the Flood of Noach. The second heaven is the sky that we currently see and in which we move and breathe, and the third heaven will be the sky around the New Earth, the NEW sky, after the Fire! That IS biblical: 2 Peter 3:1-13 cf. Revelation 20:7-15; 21:1-2!

The Greek word “ouranos,” like the Hebrew word “shaamayim," simply means “the sky!” Remember: They were an agricultural society. “Earth” was NOT the whole planet! It was the LAND on which they lived and worked! It was the DIRT and SOIL that they tilled! In the same way, “heaven” was NOT some mythical place beyond the Universe where God lives! It was the SKY in which they lived and breathed. It was the SKY in which the clouds existed and where the birds flew! It was the SKY from which the various winds and weather came! It was the SKY through which they could see the lights that God created! 

[Ezra]

Retro,

Since you have your own unique system of myths and legends, I will not even respond to what you have stated. Believe whatever you wish to believe, and if you wish to limit Heaven to the sky then feel free to do so.  Since you call God's Heaven "a mythical place" it is evident that you don't really believe the Bible (although you quote or misquote from it extensively).

[gdemoss]

Retrobyter,  with your interpretation of the heavens being linear timelines rather than spacial do you then equate what Paul said he knew a man caught up to the third heaven the same as John saying he was in the spirit on the Lords day?