Vatican: Jews can be saved without Christ

[Guest shiloh357]

9 minutes ago, OldSchool2 said:

convert: to persuade, or induce to adopt a particular religion, faith or belief.

Many Jews not only believed, but looked forward to their messiah, yet Peter expressed his faith in Jesus even before the Resurrection (Matthew 16:16).

That is true, but consider the fact that they did not believe Jesus the way Jesus presented Himself.  Peter had not yet accepted Jesus was going to die.  He did not believe in Jesus as the suffering Messiah.   None of the disciples did.  It wasn't until after the resurrection that they had a proper faith in Jesus as a persona Savior and not simply as a national/political Messiah.   "Messiah" is not a redemptive term.   Placing faith in Jesus as the Messiah is NOT the same as accepting him as Savior.  Messiah is only one role that Jesus fulfills.   He is also a personal Savior.

So they were converted to faith in Jesus as a personal Savior after the resurrection.  

[Qnts2]

Many Messianic Jews do not use the term 'converted', including myself. Judaism believes in a Messiah to come. I believed there was a Messiah to come, and then became convinced that the Messiah is actually Jesus, who had already come. When I first realized that Jesus is the Messiah, I was very surprised that with the scriptures, and the belief in a coming Messiah, the Jewish people had missed Him and the Gentiles had found Him.  

I never felt that I had converted since the Messiah is a Jewish teaching. I did not change religions, but came to believe in the Jewish Messiah Who was prophesied.

Ezra, I agree. Hagee teaches the same false teaching as the Pope regarding the need for salvation for the Jewish people. Sadly, Hagee is working to spread his theology to more of the Protestant church. People die once and then judgement, and that includes the Jewish people. Without faith in Jesus, and without Christians sharing the gospel, many Jewish people might die having never heard that Jesus is the Messiah who has come. 

Jews for Jesus does oppose Hagee's teaching, as well as other leaders in Messianic Judaism. A short paper was written by a group which included Jews for Jesus, the UMJC, and various heads of many missionary boards dedicated to sharing the gospel with the Jewish people. 

[Ezra]

7 hours ago, thereselittleflower said:

And you all realize this document is not by Pope Francis?

It does not not have to be from his hand. Since he has authorized its publication, he is responsible at the end of the day.  Two things to note in this document (which you missed):

Quote

That the Jews are participants in God’s salvation is theologically unquestionable, but how that can be possible without confessing Christ explicitly , is and remains an unfathomable divine mystery.

 

Quote

The Church is therefore obliged to view evangelisation to Jews, who believe in the one God, in a different manner from that to people of other religions and world views. In concrete terms this means that the Catholic Church neither conducts nor supports any specific institutional mission work directed towards Jews. 

 

 

[ayin jade]

5 minutes ago, Ezra said:

It does not not have to be from his hand. Since he has authorized its publication, he is responsible at the end of the day.  

And that really sums it up. No matter who wrote it, the pope is ultimately responsible for whatever is an official document from the vatican. Otherwise, the pope cannot be considered the head of the roman catholic church.

[Ezra]

7 hours ago, OldSchool2 said:

Converts to what?

Converted to faith in Christ as their Lord and Saviour.  Peter preached TO THE JEWS "Repent AND BE CONVERTED, that your sins may be blotted out". This is still true and valid for every Jew.  And it will still be true after the Second Coming of Christ.

[RustyAngeL]

On 12/10/2015, 8:47:05, shiloh357 said:

More proof that the Pope is a false prophet.

That is not a Biblical truth Jews or other wise.  Jesus is the only way to be saved and the only way to Heaven.  I was told that this pope was a born again Christian but if he is preaching this then I  have to rethink what has been said.  I didn't hear him say this and I have never heard him say that is a Christian.  I guess it is all in God's Hands.

[OldSchool2]

2 hours ago, shiloh357 said:

That is true, but consider the fact that they did not believe Jesus the way Jesus presented Himself....

You're now going from "who" to "how".

Even a Roman Gentile like myself realizes that conversion is no more required of a Jew to believe that Yeshua is her promised messiah any more than I had to "convert" from Catholicism to accept Vatican II.

Qnts2 described this much better than I ever could, so if you didn't read what she said, you should.

[Guest shiloh357]

21 minutes ago, OldSchool2 said:

You're now going from "who" to "how".

Even a Roman Gentile like myself realizes that conversion is no more required of a Jew to believe that Yeshua is her promised messiah any more than I had to "convert" from Catholicism to accept Vatican II.

Qnts2 described this much better than I ever could, so if you didn't read what she said, you should.

No, I am not switching to how.   Judaism is a false religion that denies the deity of Jesus and denies Jesus as Savior.  They reject the Gospel as much as any other false religion.  If you don't think Jews need to convert, you are out of your mind.

Jews need to convert from Judaism, much of which is not based on the Bible, but based on Kaballah.   Judaism is not a biblical religion; it is a false religion and Jews need to be converted.  It is not a matter of just receiving Jesus as Messiah but as Savior.  "Savior" and "Messiah"  are not interchangeable terms.   You can believe in Jesus as Messiah without necessarily accepting him as either God or the Savior.  

Jews must be converted to be saved.  Simply accepting Jesus as the Messiah is not enough.

[ayin jade]

I am not in any way endorsing what the vatican said. But ....

9 Because if you confess the Lord Jesus, and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from thedead, you shall be saved.
10 For with the heart one believes unto righteousness, and with the mouth one confesses unto salvation.
11 For the Scripture says, "Everyone believing on Him shall not be put to shame."

 

[thereselittleflower]

4 hours ago, Ezra said:

It does not not have to be from his hand. Since he has authorized its publication, he is responsible at the end of the day.  Two things to note in this document (which you missed):

 

 

 

 

Where does it say the Pope personally authorized its publication?

 

 

And that really sums it up. No matter who wrote it, the pope is ultimately responsible for whatever is an official document from the vatican. Otherwise, the pope cannot be considered the head of the roman catholic church.

That is very different than saying someone personally authorized something.