Ezra Posted January 27, 2016 Group: Royal Member Followers: 16 Topic Count: 134 Topics Per Day: 0.04 Content Count: 8,142 Content Per Day: 2.32 Reputation: 6,612 Days Won: 20 Joined: 11/02/2014 Status: Offline Share Posted January 27, 2016 11 hours ago, Kan said: We know that at some point in time, hell will be destroyed, or at least thrown into the lake of fire, as written in Revelation 20 (off memory.) This is a common mistake, because the KJV translators did not simply transliterate Hades (and used the word "hell"). So it is Hades that is cast into the Lake of Fire. What exactly does this mean? Hades is only a holding place, so this is metaphorical for the present inhabitants of Hades being cast into the Lake of Fire. Is the Lake of Fire eternal? Absolutely. That is clearly stated in Scripture many time, and Jesus called it eternal fire. This is also called the "second death" because it is eternal separation from God. It also says that "Death" was cast into the Lake of Fire. That is obviously a personification of the state of death. What it means is that after the Great White Throne judgment there will be no more physical death on earth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spock Posted January 28, 2016 Group: Royal Member Followers: 8 Topic Count: 29 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 3,239 Content Per Day: 0.85 Reputation: 1,686 Days Won: 6 Joined: 12/26/2013 Status: Offline Author Share Posted January 28, 2016 I believe Kan is right. show me in the scriptures where is says human souls born have inherited eternal life? I don't think you will find that. but you will find where it says believers in Christ INHERIT eternal life. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ezra Posted January 28, 2016 Group: Royal Member Followers: 16 Topic Count: 134 Topics Per Day: 0.04 Content Count: 8,142 Content Per Day: 2.32 Reputation: 6,612 Days Won: 20 Joined: 11/02/2014 Status: Offline Share Posted January 28, 2016 2 hours ago, Spock said: I agree, the beast, false prophet, and Satan are destined for eternal hell, but I don't think you can go beyond those three based on this verse in Revelation 14 you cited. Now you are trying to pick and choose between what suits and what does not. If the unholy trinity will be subject to eternal punishment and eternal suffering in the Lake of Fire, then why would anyone else not be subject to the same? There is nothing in Scripture that makes any distinctions within the Lake of Fire, other than the degree of punishment (which is still eternal). Frankly I am appalled that today Christians actually dispute things which are clearly stated or clearly revealed in Scripture. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ezra Posted January 28, 2016 Group: Royal Member Followers: 16 Topic Count: 134 Topics Per Day: 0.04 Content Count: 8,142 Content Per Day: 2.32 Reputation: 6,612 Days Won: 20 Joined: 11/02/2014 Status: Offline Share Posted January 28, 2016 2 hours ago, Spock said: but you will find where it says believers in Christ INHERIT eternal life. Actually it was the Rich Young Ruler who believed that one could inherit eternal life. The Lord did not correct him on that score, since there were other critical matters which he needed to deal with. But the Bible teaches that eternal life is a free gift (Rom 6:23, and many other passages). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spock Posted January 28, 2016 Group: Royal Member Followers: 8 Topic Count: 29 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 3,239 Content Per Day: 0.85 Reputation: 1,686 Days Won: 6 Joined: 12/26/2013 Status: Offline Author Share Posted January 28, 2016 38 minutes ago, Ezra said: Now you are trying to pick and choose between what suits and what does not. If the unholy trinity will be subject to eternal punishment and eternal suffering in the Lake of Fire, then why would anyone else not be subject to the same? There is nothing in Scripture that makes any distinctions within the Lake of Fire, other than the degree of punishment (which is still eternal). Frankly I am appalled that today Christians actually dispute things which are clearly stated or clearly revealed in Scripture. Ezra, dispute things clearly stated????? Brother, you have no clue on this one. I really believe you are on the wrong side. Not to mention, do you really believe God needs eternal punishing? Many times in scripture the word DESTRUCTION was used, not eternal tormenting. Destruction means just that- gone, poof. Again, look at the four words people often interpret as hell but they are all different. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MorningGlory Posted January 28, 2016 Group: Royal Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 1,022 Topics Per Day: 0.16 Content Count: 39,193 Content Per Day: 6.07 Reputation: 9,977 Days Won: 78 Joined: 10/01/2006 Status: Offline Share Posted January 28, 2016 8 minutes ago, Spock said: Ezra, dispute things clearly stated????? Brother, you have no clue on this one. I really believe you are on the wrong side. Not to mention, do you really believe God needs eternal punishing? Many times in scripture the word DESTRUCTION was used, not eternal tormenting. Destruction means just that- gone, poof. Again, look at the four words people often interpret as hell but they are all different. I'm going to have to agree with Ezra; it IS appalling that Christians question and argue against what Scripture clearly states. You or any other presumed believer, don't have the authorty to do so. Hell is real, it's a place of everlasting torment, and if you don't buy what God is clearly telling you.....you'll get to experience it first hand. I can only conclude that those trying to convince believers that hell is temporary have an agenda; either their own or someone else's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MorningGlory Posted January 28, 2016 Group: Royal Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 1,022 Topics Per Day: 0.16 Content Count: 39,193 Content Per Day: 6.07 Reputation: 9,977 Days Won: 78 Joined: 10/01/2006 Status: Offline Share Posted January 28, 2016 13 hours ago, Kan said: Which one of these texts says that people burn forever? If I want to burn off a whole load of rubbish, I make a fire that is not only hot, but one that will never go out until everything is burnt up. The smoke will go up forever, and the flames will be everlasting, so far as the rubbish is concerned. The flames are unquenchable, the smoke goes up forever, but the rubbish is "consumed root and branch" - Satan the root and the branches are his followers. "This is the second death." It does not say this is the second life, nor does it says that Satan and sinners will live forever. The punishment for sin is death, and it is an everlasting punishment, they will never be resurrected. When they first died from disease or battle, they could be raised again, the punishment was not forever. But with an everlasting punishment of death by flames, there is no resurrection and no return, it is everlasting. If the wicked cannot be destroyed, then they cannot die, and if they cannot die, then they can never be punished by death as God said they would be, and there can never be death to the sinner and to sin. "Everlasting life" has never been promised in the scriptures to Satan, his angels or to any unrepentant sinner. But everlasting death is certain. "Everlasting life" only belongs to those who eat of the tree of life in paradise, that's scriptural. Are we supposed to believe that they come to heaven every now and then to eat of the tree of life, so that they can go down and burn longer? The Pagans taught everlasting hell, and Jesus said that it is better to go to heaven with one eye, than to go to hell with both. He used their own superstitions in a parable to illustrate that heaven is really rewarding, but the lesson was that sin is easier to give up than to loose a limb. He was never suggesting that people ought to mutilate themselves or that God had prepared an oven for them, where they are tortured in the most extreme and impossibly painful way. That is not suggested at all, but note that some nations take those words literally - as extremists do, and cut off the limbs or body parts of the supposed guilty. Demonically inspired religions have taken the words of Jesus in His parables and pretend that He supports the pagan doctrine of hell. But His words do not suggest that at all, they teach a lesson of wisdom and love. The word "forever" is conditional to what it applies to. It is a descriptive word of the subject, and not a doctrine on its own. People are married and make a vow of "love forever." An imbalanced religion would say that if you marry, you will never die. ?? "The wages of sin is death." If the wages of sin is an everlasting life, then we have a complete contradiction to this plain statement. The devil has done this by introducing a theory of an immortal life after death, or despite death. So he has said that this aspect of life within humans is everlasting. But we know that life is conditional, and especially eternal life, which is conditional to receiving Christ - the source of all life in the universe. What the devil would like us to believe - and all the world does, that there is life apart from Christ, which there is not under any circumstances whatsoever. Agenda, right there. Kan, what are you trying to achieve here? And for whom? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ezra Posted January 28, 2016 Group: Royal Member Followers: 16 Topic Count: 134 Topics Per Day: 0.04 Content Count: 8,142 Content Per Day: 2.32 Reputation: 6,612 Days Won: 20 Joined: 11/02/2014 Status: Offline Share Posted January 28, 2016 56 minutes ago, Spock said: Not to mention, do you really believe God needs eternal punishing? Many times in scripture the word DESTRUCTION was used, not eternal tormenting. Destruction means just that- gone, poof. Why would the Holy Spirit call "destruction" everlasting unless that is indeed the case? There goes your theory. Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power; (2 Thess 1:9). Secondly “destruction” (Gk appolumi) in Scripture does NOT MEAN “gone poof”. Please note from Vine’s Expository Dictionary: <A-1,Verb,622,apollumi> a strengthened form of ollumi, signifies "to destroy utterly;" in Middle Voice, "to perish." The idea is not extinction but ruin, loss, not of being, but of well-being. This is clear from its use, as, e.g., of the marring of wine skins, Luke 5:37; of lost sheep, i.e., lost to the shepherd, metaphorical of spiritual destitution, Luke 15:4,6, etc.; the lost son, Luke 15:24; of the perishing of food, John 6:27; of gold, 1 Pet. 1:7. So of persons, Matt. 2:13, "destroy;" Matt. 8:25, "perish;" Matt. 22:7; 27:20; of the loss of well-being in the case of the unsaved hereafter, Matt. 10:28; Luke 13:3,5; John 3:16 (ver. 15 in some mss.); 10:28; 17:12; Rom. 2:12; 1 Cor. 15:18; 2 Cor. 2:15, "are perishing;" 2 Cor. 4:3; 2 Thess. 2:10; Jas. 4:12; 2 Pet. 3:9. Cp. B, II, No. 1. See DIE, LOSE, MARRED, PERISH. Again, look at the four words people often interpret as hell but they are all different. It is not that people interpret different Greek words as Hell, but the use of "hell" by the KJV translators indiscriminately. We are talking about the Lake of Fire, also called gehenna. Let's leave Hades etc. out of the discussion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spock Posted January 28, 2016 Group: Royal Member Followers: 8 Topic Count: 29 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 3,239 Content Per Day: 0.85 Reputation: 1,686 Days Won: 6 Joined: 12/26/2013 Status: Offline Author Share Posted January 28, 2016 I don't have any problem to interpret eternal destruction as meaning the following: you cease to exist for all eternity! Why do you feel this is not enough? Again, it does not say eternal PUNISHING. As for Vines definition, you can interpret that any way you prefer- to utterly destroy seems pretty obvious to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thereselittleflower Posted January 28, 2016 Group: Royal Member Followers: 6 Topic Count: 58 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 5,457 Content Per Day: 1.67 Reputation: 4,220 Days Won: 37 Joined: 07/01/2015 Status: Offline Share Posted January 28, 2016 Just now, Spock said: I don't have any problem to interpret eternal destruction as meaning the following: you cease to exist for all eternity! Why do you feel this is not enough? Seriously, look up the word destruction. Again, it does not say eternal PUNISHING. How can you have everlasting destruction? That means destruction going on for everlasting, not something that happens and is done with. Have you looked at the underlying Greek to see what it says in the original language? The word translated "destruction" means punishment. ὄλεθρος ólethros, ol'-eth-ros; from a primary ὄλλυμι óllymi (to destroy; a prolonged form); ruin, i.e. death, punishment:—destruction. ruin, destroy, death so everlasting death, everlasting punishment, everlasting ruin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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