The Adam’s Scratch

[Ezra]

3 hours ago, other one said:

 The only way I can proceed to it was that it was his intention from the start

That is a very dangerous statement. If what you say is true, then every sin and evil deed committed on this earth is intended by God. That borders on blasphemy.

God certainly knew the outcome of Adam's disobedience, since God know all things.  But that is a far cry from God having INTENDED that Adam would sin. That is something that Satan would want people to believe, since he is the one who caused the fall of the human race.

[Ezra]

40 minutes ago, angels4u said:

Between vs 1 and 2 a great catastrophe occurred, perhaps the fall of satan...

This is known as the Gap Theory, but it is not really supported by Scripture (and it has no bearing on the subject). Here is what we read in the Ten Commandments, which were written by the finger of God (Exod 20:11):

For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.

[hmbld]

5 hours ago, other one said:

I would agree and since he would have known that we were not capable of judging angels not knowing good from e vil, it seems the only thing would be that he expected humans to pick up the that trait by Adam eating the fruit.  The only way I can proceed to it was that it was his intention from the start

I believe God's intentions are more than we can fathom. I accept God desired what He created, and in giving free will, He knew how that would play out, and intended from creation the plan of redemption in order for His creation to bring Him glory.   No second thoughts needed for an all knowing Creator. 

[other one]

it doesn't say anywhere I've seen that we judge with him, and even if we did, how could we possibly do that if we didn't know good from evil...     what this thread is talking about was did God know and I say intend for Adam and Eve to eat of the fruit and I say he did intend it so they would be able to judge with some qualification.  If not then it was an after thought after they had fallen and gained the knowledge, which I just can't fathom being the case.

You do realize that everything that God did during the six days of creation all became corrupt from what Adam did and will have to be destroyed as James tells us,,, and built anew.....

How can anyone who believes what I know we all believe and say that he didn't intend for it to be that way from the very beginning.      And from my perspective it hinges on us becoming well made judges with the experience to do so justly. 

[Your closest friendnt]

On 4 February, 2016 at 1:13 PM, Word-Sword said:

I believe one of the most helpful concepts about God is that of His "omniscience." Understanding that He has always had knowledge of all things reveals much of His will and desires in the Scriptures. For example, when He commanded Adam not to partake of the "Tree of knowledge of good and evil" (Gen 2:17) He already knew Adam would disobey and since He allowed this act, I perceive negligible conflict with the concept that God used this occurrence to further reflect on His "image and "likeness" (Gen 1:26) in knowing that man would more so "become like one of Us, to know good and evil" (Gen 3:22).

 

 

 

One can know something and not understand it, but receive its understanding through experience, which in my comprehension was likely God's plan. The word "know" in Hebrew is yada' (https://www.blueletterbible.org/lang/Lexicon/Lexicon.cfm?strongs=H3045&t=KJV), and in the context of the above passage it is most sensibly applied with the definition "to understand, perceive, or discern." Since man already knew (knowledge but no understanding) what was good by what God "commanded," and "evil" by what He forbid (Gen 2:16, 17), the design of the word "know" here can be reasonably intended in sense to understand or comprehend.

 

 

 

I enjoy sharing a humorous thought that God could have said, "I already know you're going to disobey Me, but don't." This could have confused Adam, causing him to begin scratching his head in perpetual contemplation, and today instead of the "Adam's Apple" (which I believe can be analogous to the first bight lodged in the throat to hinder swallowing it) it could be the "Adam's Scratch"!

 

 

 

- NC

 

Hi, Word-sword you are very sharp in your thinking.

I like your reference to Adam's apple, it does make sense to me, because Adam was facing a crossroad. On one hand God had told him not to eat of that tree, and so far Adam had obeyed God, by not been the first one to eat from the tree.

God who  had given Eva to Adam, he at the same time gave Adam some additional instructions.

He said to Adam or so I think;

a)For this reason shall a man leave his parents and be with his wife.

and he also told him,

b) multiplied and fill the earth.

We also know that he told them, not to desire to eat from the tree, and not to touch it.

When carefully review what happen, you will see that Eva was the one who disobey God, she found herself with the desire without eating from the fruit of the tree.

Eva became award and she knew that by desiring to eat from the tree she had already disobey God's commandment, Eva did not have to eat from the tree, she had the desire, and she knew that. 

Eva also knew that Adam did not know at that time that she had disobey God, -by desiring- but Eva knew it, and she made it known to Adam (or she inform him) that it was done with her by desiring, by picking the fruit and try it. 

Then she invited Adam, who did not have the desire to eat from the tree.

She was asking him; are you going to be with me? Are you going to eat from the fruit, so we can be together? Then Adam who loved Eva ate from the fruit so they can be together.

Think what would have been if Adam did not follow Eva and did not eat from the fruit.

There was only one woman for Adam, and that was only Eva. 

And the command "that you must leave me and be with your wife, when comes to that.

(if Adam did not eat at that time from the fruit he would have desobey The above commandment) 

Yes Adam found himself in a situation that he wanted to be with God, and he wanted to be with Eva, 

And He had to choose, and even thought he bit the fruit but he found  it was hard for him to shallowed it.

- I try to explaint the Adam's apple, or Adam's scratch-

 

[WordSword]

9 hours ago, Your closest friendnt said:

- I try to explaint the Adam's apple, or Adam's scratch-

 

Hi YCF - Thank you for your reply, giving your input with your comments. 

 

10 hours ago, Your closest friendnt said:

Think what would have been if Adam did not follow Eva and did not eat from the fruit.

I believe what Adam and Eve did was what they were suppose to do, and since God knew what they were going to do, even during Him forbidding the "Tree," He chose to allow what occurred and use it to begin teaching them to understand His holiness, through contrasting good and evil. 

One can only speculate all this because Scripture does not reveal this concept, nor is it essential to know, but I believe speculating can be instructional if done out of the right motive--which is always desiring to know God more so as to "draw nearer to God" (Jam 4:8).

Scripture is the sole means of knowledge concerning what He desires us to know and understand about Him for love with Him and for one another who are His!

God's blessings to your Family!

[Your closest friendnt]

3 hours ago, Word-Sword said:

Hi YCF - Thank you for your reply, giving your input with your comments. 

 

I believe what Adam and Eve did was what they were suppose to do, and since God knew what they were going to do, even during Him forbidding the "Tree," He chose to allow what occurred and use it to begin teaching them to understand His holiness, through contrasting good and evil. 

One can only speculate all this because Scripture does not reveal this concept, nor is it essential to know, but I believe speculating can be instructional if done out of the right motive--which is always desiring to know God more so as to "draw nearer to God" (Jam 4:8).

Scripture is the sole means of knowledge concerning what He desires us to know and understand about Him for love with Him and for one another who are His!

God's blessings to your Family!

Hi WS, I do understand that God had a plan in place, and was just waiting for Eve to lead Adam in eating from the fruit of the tree.

Many people are afraid for a number of reasons to look at the whole picture, some more and some less, you can figure this out by the statments they make. 

The scripture mentions the Serpant for the first time when he tried to entice Eva. That does not means to be taken that is the first time that he show Eva, or that he did not know about how Adam came into being and how Eva came into being.

And we see another thing that the Serpant knew what God had told, Adam  and the instructions God had given him.

We see that the Serpant new that Eve new about the prohibition, even thought the scripture says that the prohibition was given to Adam before Eve came into being.

That does not mean that the Serpant did not know many other things about them.

The Lord God must have know everything about the Serpant and how he was spying and watching Adam and Eve, and also must have known the mind and the chycological world and the desires of the Serpant, and the same could be said that he knew about how the chycological world of Eve and Adam  work.

But not only God, the Devil must have known the chycological world of Eve, and the volnurability Of Eve.

God must have known, all about the Serpant and the access he had to Eve, and he did nothing to prevent it from happening, as a fact he new how smart the Serpant was, and not only that, but he also new how naive Eve was, it is very obvious that God was observing and was waiting for the Serpant to bite the bait, and then intervene to pronounce his judgement on him.

It seems that God use the desires of the Serpant towards Eve, as to get him to deceive Eve and then fall under his Judgement.

It seems that God paraded Adam and Eve before the Serpant, he did nothing to prevent their encounter, and it seems he encourage the courtship of the Serpant towards them, by him (God being away from them), and leaving them to the access of the Serpant, who could be with them, or around watching them, developing the desire to have them, and be with them and that they be his own, and not only them but also their offspring, kind of being there adoptive Father. 

God who new the chycological world of the Serpant, entice him to take them from him.

Why it is truth, that they got to know good from evil, like God, but at the same time they became separated from God, and became like the one who entice them to eat the fruit, they became like him, they were his children, he had the right to take them and be with him after they shed their eartly body.

[post]

our Lord is "the Lamb who was slain from the foundation of the earth"
was this before Adam fell, or after? it certainly implies foreknowledge - and as far as intention, it's also written in scripture that God consigned everyone to disobedience, so that He could show mercy to all (Romans 11:32).
so one may as easily be quick to cry 'blasphemy!' if we think that God could not prevent Adam, or that this universe is not entirely under His control. 
all we know is that He allows this present state, for His own purpose, and that if we fear Him, we should not think to judge Him for the way He runs His universe. 
Romans 9 bears on this - without directly answering, as though to satisfy our curiosity - what if God has done this, in order to make His wrath and His justice known? what if He created some fit for destruction, and some for honor, so that He could show His glory in mercy?

who are we to talk back to Him? we should fear Him, and seek His mercy, and respect His sovereignty. 

[simplejeff]

His Sovereignty Says "whoever seeks ME (Sovereign Creator Ruler ) WILL FIND ME" ...

so men have to make up 33 excuses/ reasons/ definitions of "seeks" to support all their different schools ((some)) represented here and ((many more)) elsewhere.

the point ((TODAY)) though is hope for the lost who Yeshua came to seek and to save.   the rest go bye-bye, down elevator, after resurrection and Judgment .....  

Yeshua, Only. ... ... ... ... no one else offers salvation or eternal life ... .... 

[post]

2 hours ago, simplejeff said:

Yeshua, Only. ... ... ... ... no one else offers salvation or eternal life ... .... 

yes

Yeshua is the Physician, and the Medicine. our Defender, and our Defense - every part of our spiritual armor is of Him, and He is the Word of God which is the sword of spirit too -- all things by Him, through Him, and for Him!! 

the 'problem of evil' and 'original sin' points to Him, the Lamb, that takes away the sin of the world, and to our need for Him, who is the very expression of God's mercy towards us - for 'it is not by strength or by will, but by mercy'