Pope calls for worldwide abolition of death penalty

[Guest Thallasa]

2 hours ago, thereselittleflower said:

Can you?

 

Well maybe it is better to pay for your sins before  facing judgment , just a thing to think about .The thought of the death penalty makes me  feel  sick , but I think that maybe avoiding punishment is worse for the  murderer . Many of the people who are against the death penalty are also for all the things that liberals are for ,but not for God's will ,but for their own ,as they do not believe in life after death . They believe that now is all there is .   What if by escaping  punishment ,a person goes to Hell for ever ?  I do believe it happens .  Just something to think about , and I have never considered it before, but is there not something also inthe bible that says that some will judge others?

What if ?

[thereselittleflower]

1 minute ago, Thallasa said:

Well maybe it is better to pay for your sins before  facing judgment , just a thing to think about .The thought of the death penalty makes me  feel  sick , but I think that maybe avoiding punishment is worse for the  murderer . Many of the people who are against the death penalty are also for all the things that liberals are for ,but not for God's will ,but for their own ,as they do not believe in life after death . They believe that now is all there is .   What if by escaping  punishment ,a person goes to Hell for ever ?  I do believe it happens .  Just something to think about , and I have never considered it before, but is there not something also inthe bible that says that some will judge others?

What if ?

Where does it say in scripture we pay for our own sins by dying ourselves?

If that were the case then what would the need for a savior have been?

 

[Guest Thallasa]

13 minutes ago, thereselittleflower said:

It's still man killing man.  A man condemns a man.  A man pulls a trigger or gives an injection or turns on the gas that kills a man.

The question is this: is it prohibited as murder is prohibited, and no it's not for it's not "murder."

But using God's judgment as justification for the death penalty I think goes to far.

Here is one reason why:

God's judgment is perfect.  No one innocent is condemned to hell.

This is not at all true about our judgment, and many innocent people have been executed.

For this reason alone, I believe the death penalty should be abolished.  And we no longer live in types and shadows, no longer is it an eye for an eye -  it is love thy neighbor as thyself.

 

 

 

You forget that this is not an option in all societies, if we are to protect innocents .And you are a Catholic ,and I have never ever heard you roundly condemn all the murders of innocents killed by them .And this man who is called a pope, what is he going to do with those who rape and murder children by the thousands . Where are you going to put them as he is talking of Banning it world wide .  Will this then stop the terrible crimes commited by  muliple rapists , stop the murder of these perpetrators by familes outraged and in agony ? .Will anything but the death penalty do anything to stop psycopaths  ?

The possibilities are endless , but I know what is going to happen ;  this POPE is going to put them up in the Vatican ,  and rehabilitate them there , far from those whose lives  have been destroyed by .  And pigs can fly .

So we should have just put the Nazis in prison then ? What about the conséquences to those who were alive after the war , watching them laughing at them , denying wrong , saying it was justified ? The impossibility for those involved to move on, to have children ? Do you see the conséquences of your false reasoning ? While the death penalty is a horrible thing , it maybe neccessary until humanity is totally recuperated .

If you can answer these I will listen ,but I have seen nothing, which is a solution world wide  .

[thereselittleflower]

3 minutes ago, Thallasa said:

You forget that this is not an option in all societies, if we are to protect innocents . .

Oh I understand, which is why I said I don't think it is possible right now.

But the ideal, just like the abolishing of slavery (slavery was allowed in the Old Testament too), is eventually doing the same with the death penalty.

 

[other one]

45 minutes ago, Ezra said:

There is a HUGE DIFFERENCE between "us killing each other" and a judge lawfully sentencing a murderer with a death penalty. Why don't you give that some serious thought.  

BTW the One who sanctioned the death penalty originally was God Himself (Lev 24:21).  So if you have an argument, it is really with God. Take it up with Him.

the problem is with our justice system, you can't be sure they are guilty.

[Guest Thallasa]

21 hours ago, junobet said:

 

Don’t be ridiculous Ezra! Of course the death penalty is all about revenge. It being state sanctioned doesn’t change the sentiment behind it. Killing a murderer because he has killed, is exactly the retaliating eye-for-an-eye justice that Jesus does not stand for (Matthew 5:38-48). Instead he stands for rehabilitation (John 8:11), which just happens to be the aim of penal systems throughout modern Western civilization, except the US.

As for Romans 13:4:  A “μάχαιρα” would hardly have been suitable for a beheading  (which is how ancient Rome executed its citizens). That’s what a “ῥομφαία”, a large sword, would have been used for. Quite rightly the Vulgata translates “μάχαιρα” as “gladius”, the small sword carried by the Roman military. It symbolizes the power of the state. So no, Paul wasn’t a political revolutionary.

Neither is the Pope. He doesn’t ask his flock to overthrow the states that still have the death penalty, he asks the states to change their policy on it. If you want to keep the US in the ‘good’ company of countries such as Iran, Saudi-Arabia and North Korea on this issue, the Pope will leave that entirely up to you. But you should not pretend it’s belief in Christ, the Redeemer, that makes you support the death penalty, rather than your own lower instincts.

 

Love,

junobet

What about  your lower instincts ?  Do they force you to go onto a site you have just joined , to Accuse people ?  Who do you think you are, accusing people like no one else , and using bible quotes, to hide your liberal  stance,  mixing it up with being a christian one ?

[thereselittleflower]

1 minute ago, Thallasa said:

What about  your lower instincts ?  Do they force you to go onto a site you have just joined , to Accuse people ?  Who do you think you are, accusing people like no one else , and using bible quotes, to hide your liberal  stance,  mixing it up with being a christian one ?

I didn't see her do any such thing.

 

[Guest Thallasa]

On ‎22‎/‎02‎/‎2016 at 10:49 AM, Ezra said:

The death penalty cannot be labelled as "revenge" since a person condemned to death for a heinous crime goes through the entire legal process of establishing guilt, and a judge sentences that person. So that statement is utter nonsense.  Revenge is you killing someone who attacked you, or killed your loved ones (basically taking the law into your own hands).  The state does not take revenge but applies the laws on the books.

Not only is the death penalty stated clearly in the Old Testament, it is also in the NT.  Please note (Rom 13:1-4):

Let every soul be subject unto the higher powers. For there is no power but of God: the powers that be are ordained of God.  Whosoever therefore resisteth the power, resisteth the ordinance of God: and they that resist shall receive to themselves damnation. For rulers are not a terror to good works, but to the evil. Wilt thou then not be afraid of the power? do that which is good, and thou shalt have praise of the same:  For he is the minister of God to thee for good. But if thou do that which is evil, be afraid; for he beareth not the sword in vain: for he is the minister of God, a revenger to execute wrath upon him that doeth evil.

Please note the words “sword” and “wrath”.  Those refer to the executioner’s sword (by extension any device to bring about death, such as hanging, the electric chair, lethal injection etc.), and “wrath”, which is not man’s wrath, but God’s wrath against murderers and those who commit heinous crimes.

So, in essence, what the Pope is telling the world (and a vast majority are Muslims who hold to the death penalty) is that he has absolutely no regard for the Word of God, but makes up his own rules and theology as he goes along. In fact, he is mocking God.

As to the salvation of that soul, most of those on death row have people ministering to their spiritual needs long before the date of execution.  Some repent and are converted, others do not. The reason such criminals forfeit their lives is because they take innocent lives in the first place, and have absolutely no regard for others (similar to Islamist terrorists).

What about Americans who killed innocents abroad , what about justice in this situation ?

[Guest Thallasa]

1 minute ago, thereselittleflower said:

I didn't see her do any such thing.

 

 You have taken over the site, already . I don't care for your opinion as it is biased .

[Ezra]

13 minutes ago, Thallasa said:

What about Americans who killed innocents abroad , what about justice in this situation ?

Are you referring to murder or collateral damage in warfare?  Apples and oranges.  But if an American murders someone abroad, then they are subject to the laws of the land.