Pre trib rapture is fake

[Zemke]

47 minutes ago, SINNERSAVED said:

who is doing who justice ?why do you say you are rebuking me ?? why do you say I am teaching false doctrine, you are trying to prove a false teaching on a scripture that does not clearly validates what you are proving to be right,

 lets look at this scripture you used , for example, and lets break it down, John 14;1 a pre trib rapture, from this ?

 okay what does the scripture say /  John 14:1   Let not your heart be troubled: ye believe in God, believe also in me.

  John 14:2   In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you.

  John 14:3   And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also.
this does not say anything about the rapture, but that Jesus goes to make  a place and comes back, it did not say prior to tribulation, or at when He would come back , so this is false teaching to make a assumption and to make it say something else,

 I am just trying to see where you got what you said, from this verse, ?

I believe i have prove this to be in error?

 the truth is in scripture, as in context and as it is written, not by twisting them?

 for you cannot get bananas out of oranges, you get bananas out of bananas?

blessings to you

'

Well if I may to all the pre trib folk, I think the perspective about this section of scripture that speaks about pretribulationism to a pretrib believer is the Lords receiving us unto Himself and where He is we will be also. 

You see, to someone who believes pretrib, the saints will be with Him during the time of wrath which they define as the tribulation period. For the purpose of spending time at the marriage supper and preparing to return with Him. Post trib doesn't allow anytime for any of this so this section of scripture interpreted through the eyes of pretribulationism proves their perspective to be more plausible. 

I can understand an argument that says this scripture has nothing in it about any rapture but the illusion to a resurrection and so shall we be forever with the Lord is apparent in verse 3. This really gets into an argument on perception and we need to be more graceful and understanding on this topic. We all have been taught a perspective. Have you ever considered that we all are off a bit in our perspective? The resurrection is our hope, I may not awake tomorrow morning in this world, to me that is eminence. 

 

 

 

[SINNERSAVED]

3 minutes ago, Zemke said:

Well if I may to all the pre trib folk, I think the perspective about this section of scripture that speaks about pretribulationism to a pretrib believer is the Lords receiving us unto Himself and where He is we will be also. 

You see, to someone who believes pretrib, the saints will be with Him during the time of wrath which they define as the tribulation period. For the purpose of spending time at the marriage supper and preparing to return with Him. Post trib doesn't allow anytime for any of this so this section of scripture interpreted through the eyes of pretribulationism proves their perspective to be more plausible. 

I can understand an argument that says this scripture has nothing in it about any rapture but the illusion to a resurrection and so shall we be forever with the Lord is apparent in verse 3. This really gets into an argument on perception and we need to be more graceful and understanding on this topic. We all have been taught a perspective. Have you ever considered that we all are off a bit in our perspective? The resurrection is our hope, I may not awake tomorrow morning in this world, to me that is eminence. 

 

 

 

blessings Zemke, yes you have given a good report here, and I see what you are saying,

 now what Ezra is saying does not , say what scripture is stating, for I come back and receive you to my self, ??

 okay, lets take this, and figure out when will this happen, according to the bible, after the tribulation, the son of man comes, and the angels hold back the four winds and gathers the elect, fact,

 also it says that the dead in Christ rises first , and then them that are alive next, so when does this all happen, ?

 you have given the believers of today , a out, and a pass to get out of tribulation card free,

 but you are not in line of the events that come up to the part after the tribulation, we will suffer tribulation, for Jesus said you will have tribulation, and be persecuted and death , for HIS NAME SAKE< <BUT BE OF GOOD CHEER I HAVE OVERCOME THE WORLD ?

 this does not mean we do not see tribulation, and that we are not going to avoid tribulation, this is truth and it is what Jesus said,

NOW, I want to get out of here just like the pre tribers, but Jesus is said, that if you follow me, be faithful up to and death, for the second death has no power over you, and so if you wanted ezra to hold on to what you are saying which is as false as it comes and made up, by your opinion and ideas,, scripture is saying, we follow God, and if we have to give up our LIVES in the process, in this world, then it is something we will gladly do, for we know what is on the other side, it is His salvation, it is His rest we enter in, and the glory and all that we will have, ? is not to be measured by what we suffer here,

 the bible clearly say this, and so you have put your own time on the pre rapture,  but the scripture does not say that,

do not twist scripture, for we need to be in context, and not assuming ?

thank you for your time, I hope this clears it up

 

[MorningGlory]

On 3/19/2016 at 7:36 PM, ENOCH2010 said:

Why don't the pre-trib crowd state their true beliefs about this which are.... the rapture is the second coming,so the second coming written about in the Bible is the third coming.

 

The Rapture is NOT the Second Coming, that's why PreTribbers don't claim that. 

[MorningGlory]

5 minutes ago, SINNERSAVED said:

blessings Zemke, yes you have given a good report here, and I see what you are saying,

 now what Ezra is saying does not , say what scripture is stating, for I come back and receive you to my self, ??

 okay, lets take this, and figure out when will this happen, according to the bible, after the tribulation, the son of man comes, and the angels hold back the four winds and gathers the elect, fact,

 also it says that the dead in Christ rises first , and then them that are alive next, so when does this all happen, ?

 you have given the believers of today , a out, and a pass to get out of tribulation card free,

 but you are not in line of the events that come up to the part after the tribulation, we will suffer tribulation, for Jesus said you will have tribulation, and be persecuted and death , for HIS NAME SAKE< <BUT BE OF GOOD CHEER I HAVE OVERCOME THE WORLD ?

 this does not mean we do not see tribulation, and that we are not going to avoid tribulation, this is truth and it is what Jesus said,

NOW, I want to get out of here just like the pre tribers, but Jesus is said, that if you follow me, be faithful up to and death, for the second death has no power over you, and so if you wanted ezra to hold on to what you are saying which is as false as it comes and made up, by your opinion and ideas,, scripture is saying, we follow God, and if we have to give up our LIVES in the process, in this world, then it is something we will gladly do, for we know what is on the other side, it is His salvation, it is His rest we enter in, and the glory and all that we will have, ? is not to be measured by what we suffer here,

 the bible clearly say this, and so you have put your own time on the pre rapture,  but the scripture does not say that,

do not twist scripture, for we need to be in context, and not assuming ?

thank you for your time, I hope this clears it up

 

You still are not posting Scripture, SS, in the comments above.  Your point of view would be much clearer if you would do that.  Like this, from your post above:      "okay, lets take this, and figure out when will this happen, according to the bible, after the tribulation, the son of man comes, and the angels hold back the four winds and gathers the elect, fact,

Just post the Scripture; it's right there in your Bible.

[SINNERSAVED]

I just thought of something, there is stories in history that when the Christians were set into the arena, to be eaten by the lions, and they knew, that there time had come, they were together, singing and making a joyful noise unto the lord our God, so , that is  another way to show the power of faith, belief in the sight of death , as those Christians did not fear , but focused on God, and endured until the end ,

we are told to focus on God, be in the word in and out of season, and to endure in the faith ,until the end, for that's when it will matter,

 at the end when it is all said and done, and we stand for God in the face of death , for we know, our God has done all that He could, and the rest is up to us, to follow Him or to reject Him, blessings I hope this edify some ?

[SINNERSAVED]

3 minutes ago, MorningGlory said:

You still are not posting Scripture, SS, in the comments above.  Your point of view would be much clearer if you would do that.  Like this, from your post above:      "okay, lets take this, and figure out when will this happen, according to the bible, after the tribulation, the son of man comes, and the angels hold back the four winds and gathers the elect, fact,

Just post the Scripture; it's right there in your Bible.

 Matthew 24:21   For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.

  Matthew 24:22   And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.

  Matthew 24:23   Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there; believe it not.

  Matthew 24:24   For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.

  Matthew 24:25   Behold, I have told you before.

  Matthew 24:26   Wherefore if they shall say unto you, Behold, he is in the desert; go not forth: behold, he is in the secret chambers; believe it not.

  Matthew 24:27   For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.

  Matthew 24:28   For wheresoever the carcase is, there will the eagles be gathered together.

  Matthew 24:29   Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:

  Matthew 24:30   And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

  Matthew 24:31   And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

[Guest Robert]

Here's one problem some of you are not recognizing:

If we need to be here for the Tribulation, then that says the blood of Jesus Christ was NOT enough to cleanse us and purify us, and that we need to "suffer" in the Tribulation.

Either Christ's blood paid for our sins or it didn't:

Quote

" For the grace of God has appeared, bringing salvation to all men, instructing us to deny ungodliness and worldly desires and to live sensibly, righteously and godly in the present age, looking for the blessed hope an and the appearing of the glory of our great God and Savior, Christ Jesus, who gave Himself for us to redeem us from every lawless deed, and to purify for Himself a people for His own possession, zealous for good deeds." (Titus 2:11-14, NASB, emphasis mine)

And if Christ's blood wasn't enough to fully cleanse us, then what is? And if it is, then why are we on earth? Did God leave Noah with the sinners, or did he leave Enoch on Earth?

If we were to be left on earth during the Tribulation, that would say that Jesus' blood wasn't enough to cleanse us, and that we needed to "suffer" during the tribulation. And that makes no sense.

And tell me what groom lets his bride-to-be walk into a situation where he knows she will be pummeled and beaten to a bloody pulp? Read Rev 13 carefully: it says the saints would be overcome by the Beast.

 

Sorry, but your desire to "win crowns" during the Trib is showing.

 

Edited March 20, 2016 by RobertS
Additional thoughts

[simplejeff]

Yes sinnersaved,  and no matter what happened to them,  they did not get ruffled feathers;

they did not get offended, nor shout in anger, nor did they need to any more than JESUS did.

In fact, their peace and calm was the evidence of their faith and life in JESUS.

5 minutes ago, SINNERSAVED said:

I just thought of something, there is stories in history that when the Christians were set into the arena, to be eaten by the lions, and they knew, that there time had come, they were together, singing and making a joyful noise unto the lord our God, so , that is  another way to show the power of faith, belief in the sight of death , as those Christians did not fear , but focused on God, and endured until the end ,

we are told to focus on God, be in the word in and out of season, and to endure in the faith ,until the end, for that's when it will matter,

 at the end when it is all said and done, and we stand for God in the face of death , for we know, our God has done all that He could, and the rest is up to us, to follow Him or to reject Him, blessings I hope this edify some ?

 

[SINNERSAVED]

in the scriptures provided for you above , claims that there will be great tribulation, and that after the tribulation the gathering, ,

 it also states do not let any one deceive you for many will say they are the Christ, ?= Christians possibly ? the wolves in sheeps clothing perhaps ?? who knows , but there is no coming of God that is in secret, it says all this in this chapter

 it says it would be signs to even fool ,the ELECT, so that would also mean the elect is still here during this time

 here is scripture, it says what it is , blessings,, and peace

[simplejeff]

Where did this come from ?  

I don't think anywhere in the Bible it says

the suffering on earth at any time would supplement JESUS BLOOD ATONEMENT for sin.....

((I think many of man's religions/ doctrines / even churches-christendom/ have that, 

that man must do SOMETHING to make up for sin that JESUS BLOOD DOES NOT REDEEM US FROM,

but it's not in the BIBLE ))

6 minutes ago, RobertS said:

....If we need to be here for the Tribulation, then that says the blood of Jesus Christ was NOT enough to cleanse us and purify us, and that we need to "suffer" in the Tribulation.....

 Rev 13  : it says the saints would be overcome by the Beast.....