a simple(?) question about sabbath

[simplejeff]

8 minutes ago, SINNERSAVED said:

no I am not part of SDA , I am not attach to any church,

 I will get you the info, and send it to you ,

 I need to retrieve , from my archive blessings to you

About 20 or more years ago, the 'sunday' laws were brought up for review or just for news on usa national television.

They were at that time still 'law', but never or almost never enforced any more.

They were , of course, first put in place 1575 years ago((not, of course, in the usa)) , give or take a few hundred years.

[post]

15 hours ago, simplejeff said:

see in ROMANS, I think , where Yahweh says there are even those gentiles who don't have torah keep torah , and those who had torah did not keep torah.... 

yes! so if i did not have the Torah, but i had love for God -- how would my love for God fulfill the purpose of the sabbath laws in the Torah? 

suppose i am converted y a missionary in central China - and i do not have a copy of the Bible, but i heard the gospel and believed. i have never heard of sabbath at all -- but Christ lives in me, and His love compels me - how does that love acting in and through me fulfill the sabbath in particular? 

i think that this question - appearing simple - leads to a deep understanding of the purpose of sabbath, and of true rest. but i am not sure, it is turning over in my head & i want to hear from others what the mind of Christ is on the subject. 

[post]

i appreciate it if we stay on topic -- obviously fear of 'sunday laws' is not how love fulfills the sabbath, lol -- that kind of answer is what i meant by "standard sabbath-thread toolkit"
we see a thread with a title that has the word "sabbath" in it, so without really reading and considering the OP, we jump in and preach about SDA or about Rome changing times and seasons, or whatever. 
no big offense to me, seriously - i do the same thing sometimes. but in a couple days,  i will be expected to teach on the second half of verse 8 in Romans 13 - that "the one who loves fulfills the law" - ((yes, just half a verse. our study group moves very slowly & deliberately)) - and thinking about it, this question strikes me. i don't think it will be appropriate to go to the group and read this verse, then warn them about sunday laws and rant about changing the times and seasons lol! 

what i'm thinking is that this is part of the "1st tablet" that speaks of our relationship with the Father, and is summed up in loving Him with all that we are. so that if we love Him, we will set aside our own work, and do His. and we will trust in His Son and the redeeming grace He showed us, so we will rest in Him -- and this is the purpose and true fulfillment of the sabbath, which is reached purely by love for Him. 
i would like to know, what you think of this? i certainly don't want to go to 20 or 30 people and lead them astray, if this is not so.
teaching is scary! 

[gdemoss]

Heb 4:7 Again, he limiteth a certain day, saying in David, To day, after so long a time; as it is said, To day if ye will hear his voice, harden not your hearts.

Great question Post!  How does love fulfill the 4th commandment? 

My position is that God has been striving with man from the beginning.  Speaking to them in the Spirit of Truth yet man hardens their hearts against him.  

Consider Romans which tells us that when they knew God they did not honor him as God but became vain in their imaginations and their foolish hearts were darkened.  Then again in John he says that he was in the world and the world knew him not.  Even poor Elijah had to come to the place of hearing that still small voice speaking from within.

Your question is how does love fulfill the 4th commandment.  The answer, I beleive, is in that which naturally happens when men obey the voice of God in them.  Consider the list of things Jesus said was acceptable to do on tge Sabbath.  He taught that it was lawful to do good on the sabbath.  Why do we labor so hard all the time without rest?  Isn't because we desire to get gain?  

Let's take a good look at 1 Cor 13 where love is defined.  Therein is the answer to how love fulfills the sabbath.

1Co 13:4 Charity suffereth long, and is kind; charity envieth not; charity vaunteth not itself, is not puffed up,

1Co 13:5 Doth not behave itself unseemly, seeketh not her own, is not easily provoked, thinketh no evil;

1Co 13:6 Rejoiceth not in iniquity, but rejoiceth in the truth.

1Co 13:7 Beareth all things, believeth all things, hopeth all things, endureth all things.

God is Love.  God is in us instructing us in love how to act everyday.  If we do as the scriptures say and follow his voice then we cannot help but fulfill the law of love.  Even on the Sabbath.

[post]

thanks gdemoss! -- i've listened to half a dozen sermons on 'love fulfills the law' in the last couple of days, and not one preacher has even mentioned command #4 at all! am i being led into a line of thinking that's not presently being taught? how wonderful to be used this way! 

this especially stands out to me immediately:

5 minutes ago, gdemoss said:

1Co 13:5 Doth not behave itself unseemly, seeketh not her own, is not easily provoked, thinketh no evil;

love does not seek its own -- isn't this the same as 'ceasing from your own works' - as Hebrews 4:10 says anyone who enters God's rest does? 

♥

[gdemoss]

Just now, post said:

thanks gdemoss! -- i've listened to half a dozen sermons on 'love fulfills the law' in the last couple of days, and not one preacher has even mentioned command #4 at all! am i being led into a line of thinking that's not presently being taught? how wonderful to be used this way! 

this especially stands out to me immediately:

love does not seek its own -- isn't this the same as 'ceasing from your own works' - as Hebrews 4:10 says anyone who enters God's rest does? 

♥

Yes, indeed it is.  Let us strive to enter into that rest.

[Openly Curious]

On 3/20/2016 at 9:13 PM, post said:

love fulfills the entire law. 
no argument there, right? 

if we love God, we will not have other gods, we will not speak of Him in vain, and we won't make idols. check. 

if we love our neighbor, we won't do them harm - we won't lie, steal, covet what is theirs, etc. check. 

if we have love, we don't need a law to tell us what is right or wrong to do. we don't need to be told "don't commit adultery" or "usury is a sin" -- because love is faithful to it's lover, and generous towards others. if we love our parents, we will honor and obey them - we don't have to check the law to see if we should or not. 

ok, that 's good, i see . . 

. . but how does love fulfill "honor the sabbath and keep it holy" ? where would we come up with that if we weren't looking for it in a rulebook, but were just walking in love? 
does this point at Christ as the true sabbath, instead of the ritual observance? 

thoughts? thanks. 

Read

Hebrews 4....it might help in your understanding

[Qnts2]

9 hours ago, post said:

thanks gdemoss! -- i've listened to half a dozen sermons on 'love fulfills the law' in the last couple of days, and not one preacher has even mentioned command #4 at all! am i being led into a line of thinking that's not presently being taught? how wonderful to be used this way! 

this especially stands out to me immediately:

love does not seek its own -- isn't this the same as 'ceasing from your own works' - as Hebrews 4:10 says anyone who enters God's rest does? 

♥

Just a reminder. Hebrews was written to Jewish people who were under the Mosaic law. So, from that stand point, your own works for a Jewish person is doing the works required by the Mosaic law to please God and be blessed by God. Not doing the works of God as commanded to the Jewish people, could result in punishments if the people were rebellious for a long time. Doing the Mosaic law was counted to the people as their own righteousness for obeying God.

When Jesus died, and rose again, He took away sins by Jesus work alone. The people were counted as righteous, not by their own works, but by the work of Jesus. So, people could rest in Jesus, and no longer had to work to be counted as righteous. It was God's love which gave Jesus and it is God's love to desire that all be saved. God no longer judges those who are counted as righteous thru Jesus completed work. 

[SINNERSAVED]

10 hours ago, post said:

i appreciate it if we stay on topic -- obviously fear of 'sunday laws' is not how love fulfills the sabbath, lol -- that kind of answer is what i meant by "standard sabbath-thread toolkit"
we see a thread with a title that has the word "sabbath" in it, so without really reading and considering the OP, we jump in and preach about SDA or about Rome changing times and seasons, or whatever. 
no big offense to me, seriously - i do the same thing sometimes. but in a couple days,  i will be expected to teach on the second half of verse 8 in Romans 13 - that "the one who loves fulfills the law" - ((yes, just half a verse. our study group moves very slowly & deliberately)) - and thinking about it, this question strikes me. i don't think it will be appropriate to go to the group and read this verse, then warn them about sunday laws and rant about changing the times and seasons lol! 

what i'm thinking is that this is part of the "1st tablet" that speaks of our relationship with the Father, and is summed up in loving Him with all that we are. so that if we love Him, we will set aside our own work, and do His. and we will trust in His Son and the redeeming grace He showed us, so we will rest in Him -- and this is the purpose and true fulfillment of the sabbath, which is reached purely by love for Him. 
i would like to know, what you think of this? i certainly don't want to go to 20 or 30 people and lead them astray, if this is not so.
teaching is scary! 

Hello Post, I wanted to apologize in getting into detour of your thread, and it just happens sometimes and I did not mean for it to do that, and Yes so are talking about the Sabbath the rest, for we find rest for our souls in Christ Jesus yeshua, that has given what He was to do , and to come to earth and to establish and to fulfill the law and the prophets , and then was risen to the father, and now He rests for a while at the right hand of the father, and so until we see, the glory of the lord, we are to observe Gods love given to us, and to follow the word of God which the holy spirit flows like water to our souls and we find rest in Him,

 we need to stop running around in the world with no time to stop , for this is exactly why the Sabbath was also made, one was to give thanks to God and the second to rest , our selves to handle the next week, so God also knows we need rest , and to eat the right foods, and how we are to meditate on him, and this gives us rest from the pressures of the day ,

thank you

[other one]

1 hour ago, SINNERSAVED said:

Hello Post, I wanted to apologize in getting into detour of your thread, and it just happens sometimes and I did not mean for it to do that, and Yes so are talking about the Sabbath the rest, for we find rest for our souls in Christ Jesus yeshua, that has given what He was to do , and to come to earth and to establish and to fulfill the law and the prophets , and then was risen to the father, and now He rests for a while at the right hand of the father, and so until we see, the glory of the lord, we are to observe Gods love given to us, and to follow the word of God which the holy spirit flows like water to our souls and we find rest in Him,

 we need to stop running around in the world with no time to stop , for this is exactly why the Sabbath was also made, one was to give thanks to God and the second to rest , our selves to handle the next week, so God also knows we need rest , and to eat the right foods, and how we are to meditate on him, and this gives us rest from the pressures of the day ,

thank you

I know very few people who work 7 days a week... but they don't really have to have a day off on Saturday....     Sunday worship and not being too busy in the afternoon and evening sevices are pretty resting......  or has been for me...  At one time when I was a TV director, I got off Tuesdays and Wednesday and did quite well.         As for thanking God, I talk to him off and on every day all day long.   I used to get him to help me fix the big printers back when I was working and something had me stumped.....   i know from experience that God enjoys going to work with you.  

While I don't disagree with you about those needs, I would disagree that it takes a Saturday off to do them.