pre trib rapture is fake true or false

[ENOCH2010]

16 minutes ago, Montana Marv said:

Everything you posted from Matt 24 was about the 2nd Coming.  Those being gathered from one end of heaven to the other are those Saints previously Raptured so they can view the 2nd Coming from above.  Those from the 4 winds are those gathered on the earth to view the 2nd Coming from below.

Now is/was this a Coming of Jesus.  Acts 9:3-6 - As he (Saul) neared Damascus on his journey, suddenly a light from heaven flashed around him.  He (Saul) fell to the ground and heard a voice say to him "Saul, Saul, why do you persecute me".  Who are you Lord? Saul asked.  I am Jesus whom you are persecuting" he replied. 

So was this a coming of Jesus, for He was talking to Saul.

And again to you Post - Trib people.  You never make it to the Fathers House as promised in John 14.  But we Pre - Trib people do make it to our Fathers House as promised.

In Christ

Montana Marv

The Fathers house is coming here Marv

[Montana Marv]

57 minutes ago, ENOCH2010 said:

The Fathers house is coming here Marv

Yes but you don't get there till after the 1000 years, you will need to get in line because of Israel.  We as Pre-Trib get there much earlier as promised in John 14.  For we Know the way to where Jesus now is.  The promise is that we will be with Him in His Fathers House (Third Heaven).  The thing is that this New Jerusalem is not where God the Father resides now for sin and death have not been fully dealt with (Death and Hades being thrown into the Lake of Fire).  For His expanse of His Realm (Third Heaven) now holds all creation within it, with the earth being the center of activity.  Then the New Jerusalem on this earth will be where God resides.  Then God will live with man.

In Christ

Montana Marv

[HAZARD]

5 hours ago, other one said:

But you quoted me in bringing up the rapture and all I was speaking of is where is heaven.....  LoL be careful of that, I am easily confused that time of night  LoL

Sorry, so now you should know where heaven is. Its that far out in the northern part of the universe we cannot see it even using the most powerful scopes including Hubble. Is like I cannot see England or America from Australia because of distance, yet I know where they are and the fact that they exist, but when I get there at the Rapture, or if I die before the rapture, I will see it, as you will as well.

[Serving]

7 hours ago, HAZARD said:

Sadly, you have been duped by our adversary, you don't believe what Jesus said. I never said God was not a Spirit, The Bible says Jesus, who was the Word and a Spirit being, before He became man, NOW has a flesh and bone body.
   

Hazard, please, think about this then, When the Lord met Abraham accompanied by two angels on their way to Sodom, what form did they manifest in?

That's right .. FLESH.

Now that was BEFORE crucifixion right, yet you yourself admitted that the Word Himself was SPIRIT before crucifixion yes?

So HOW do you reconcile that fact? See? 

That one example alone greatly diminishes your position and reveals a great error in your discernment on this subject that our Lord is mere "flesh and bone" .. again, YOU have flesh and YOU have bone too .. just adding "glorified" before it means absolutely nothing .. you are demoting the Lord back to mere flesh, which is lesser than Spirit as is written, which means the angels are even greater then our Lord if we accept your position .. and that my friend, I will never do.

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Wow, your brave, so your suggesting Jesus was telling lies to Thomas and the other disciples after he rose from the dead, when He said;

Luke 24:39-40, Behold my hands and my feet, that it is I myself: handle me; and see, FOR A SPIRIT HATH NOT FLESH AND BONES. AS YE SEE ME HAVE. V. 40, And  when He had thus spoken, He showed them His hands and His feet. 

John 20:20,  And when He had said so, He showed unto them His hands and His side. The were disciples glad, when they saw the Lord.

John 20:17, Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God.
    18, Mary Magdalene came and told the disciples that she had seen the Lord, and that he had spoken these things unto her.
    19, Then the same day at evening, being the first day of the week, when the doors were shut where the disciples were assembled for fear of the Jews, came Jesus and stood in the midst, and saith unto them, Peace be unto you.
    20, And when he had so said, He shewed unto them His hands and His side. Then were the disciples glad, when they saw the Lord.
    21, Then said Jesus to them again, Peace be unto you: as my Father hath sent me, even so send I you.
    22, And when he had said this, he breathed on them, and saith unto them, Receive ye the Holy Ghost:
    23, Whose soever sins ye remit, they are remitted unto them; and whose soever sins ye retain, they are retained.
    24, But Thomas, one of the twelve, called Didymus, was not with them when Jesus came.
    25, The other disciples therefore said unto him, We have seen the Lord. But he said unto them, Except I shall see in His hands the print of the nails, and put my finger  into the print of the nails, and thrust my hand into His side, I will not believe.
    26, And after eight days again his disciples were within, and Thomas with them: then came Jesus, the doors being shut, and stood in the midst, and said, Peace be unto you.
    27, Then saith he to Thomas, Reach hither thy finger, and behold my hands; and reach hither thy hand, and thrust it into my side: and be not faithless, but believing.
    28, And Thomas answered and said unto him, My Lord and my God.

Again, Luke 24:39-40, Behold my hands and my feet, that it is I myself: handle me; and see, FOR A SPIRIT HATH NOT FLESH AND BONES. AS YE SEE ME HAVE. V. 40, And  when He had thus spoken, He showed them His hands and His feet. 

You are missing the point by an extremely wide margin .. when Jesus manifested in the flesh AFTER His crucifixion, for all intents and purposes, He WAS flesh because, and as I said, He PURPOSELY manifested in the flesh for THEIR SAKES even though He was in fact Spirit at that time AFTER crucifixion.

So please don't confuse what I am saying .. Spirit CAN manifest in the flesh, just remember the example I gave above, how the Lord appeared to Abraham in the FLESH, even though, and as you agreed, The Word was SPIRIT prior to coming to earth for His Testament/witness .. Spirit can manifest in the flesh, we have biblical examples all of us can read, this is nothing new, this is old news friend .. 

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If the Word, who became FLESH, remained a spirit being, how did He die? A spirit cannot die, it is immortal, flesh and bone can die, Jesus became flesh and bone and was raised flesh and bone as He himself stated! 

So, How about you need to apply some critical thinking to this important fact that Jesus Himself testifies to.

Hazard, you have undone yourself there friend .. but first .. let me clarify .. WHEN Jesus was born of Mary, He WAS flesh 100% .. but NOW He is Spirit once more, just as you agreed He was Spirit BEFORE being born of Mary, so you have either mistaken what I said, or abused what I said, I think you mistook what I said because I've made the same mistakes in the past too.

Second, here is where you have just undone your whole argument by your own admission above :  "A spirit cannot die, it is immortal, flesh and bone can die"

Seeing Jesus is immortal, and SPIRIT can NOT die .. but flesh and bone CAN die .. then that can only mean one thing .. that Jesus is a Spirit.

Thank you for confirming my position, case closed.

 

[other one]

3 hours ago, HAZARD said:

Sorry, so now you should know where heaven is. Its that far out in the northern part of the universe we cannot see it even using the most powerful scopes including Hubble. Is like I cannot see England or America from Australia because of distance, yet I know where they are and the fact that they exist, but when I get there at the Rapture, or if I die before the rapture, I will see it, as you will as well.

I don't think so, but that's ok...

[Serving]

3 hours ago, HAZARD said:

Sorry, so now you should know where heaven is. Its that far out in the northern part of the universe we cannot see it even using the most powerful scopes including Hubble. Is like I cannot see England or America from Australia because of distance, yet I know where they are and the fact that they exist, but when I get there at the Rapture, or if I die before the rapture, I will see it, as you will as well.

Er .. heaven is in the northern part of the universe? 

I take it you thought this up in relation to "sides of the north" right? So you got this idea and related it to where heaven must be yes? WRONG.

Have you ever heard of Jacobs ladder?

That vision alone IMPLIES .. I say implies because I have never observed heaven in vision or whatever, and can only IMPLY from Jacobs vision that heaven is actually VERY CLOSE to us ..

Whether we can call the spiritual realm another dimension or not I am not sure, but scripture SEEMS to suggest it is right "above us", as it were, and not trillions of miles far out in some northern part of the universe.  

It's okay to speculate, but don't present it as truth, present it as what it truly is .. one of YOUR speculations.

[n2thelight]

The only way one can really see this is to understand that we were in heaven with God before being born.At death we return.

All who have died are now in heaven,saint and sinner alike.

 

Those that come back with Christ were not raptured,they died.At that time we shall all be changed,saint and sinner alike.The difference will be those in Christ shall put on immortality at that time,while the sinner,though changed will still be mortal,meaning they can die the 2nd death,which is the death of the soul.

The mistake most make is they assume the soul is automatically immortal,that simply is not true.....

 

You'll say (rapturist)that you will escape tribulation,yet scripture says we shall always have tribulation,you seem scared of dying during the tribulation my question to you is how do the Christians in other countries feel,as they are being tortured and murdered every day

Where tell is their rapture?

 

My suggestion is ,figure out what the trib is all about(hint)it's not death and destruction.........

[Last Daze]

19 hours ago, HAZARD said:

Read it and disbelieve what God says at your peril. You know, Jesus wont force you or anyone else from joining Him and be raptured away and avoid the tribulation.

That kind of nonsensical statement speaks volumes.  So, if I don't fall in love with your version of what "God says" I'm in peril?  That's the kind of pressure tactic I'd expect to hear from a cultist.  And, no, I never knew that Jesus was going to give us the option of whether to join Him for the rapture or not.  Do you have a verse to support that or is that just another in a long list of pretrib fallacies?

Reality has a way of convincing that words simply can not.  May God give us discernment and strength to persevere.

[HAZARD]

2 hours ago, Last Daze said:

That kind of nonsensical statement speaks volumes.  So, if I don't fall in love with your version of what "God says" I'm in peril?  That's the kind of pressure tactic I'd expect to hear from a cultist.  And, no, I never knew that Jesus was going to give us the option of whether to join Him for the rapture or not.  Do you have a verse to support that or is that just another in a long list of pretrib fallacies?

Reality has a way of convincing that words simply can not.  May God give us discernment and strength to persevere.

Personally It's not my worry or responsibility to even care what you believe or do.

"Do you have a verse to support that or is that just another in a long list of pretrib fallacies?"

There are many verses given in support of a pretrib rapture., Its you who have contributed nothing to support your personal pet theory. 

"And,

no, I never knew that Jesus was going to give us the option of whether to join Him for the rapture or not."

The purpose of the rapture is to resurrect the just from the dead and take all the saints out of the world before the tribulation comes, in order that they may have fulfilled in them the purpose for which God has saved them. Jesus told the disciples that some would escape the terrible things that were to transpire on the Earth in the last days. He said, “Pray that you many be accounted worthy to escape all these things of,  Matt. 24, 25; Luke 21:1-19, 25-28, that shall come to pass, and stand before the Son of man,”  Luke 21:34-36. These two passages in Luke 21:34-36 and John 14:1-3 are the only ones in the Gospels that are clear concerning the Rapture.. Jesus did not reveal this, it was revealed by Paul many years later in 1 Cor. 15:51. The disciples did not have the slightest idea as to how they were to escape, unless they thought that Christ would deliver them from these things through His power. The how was not revealed or even mentioned before Paul explained how they were to escape.

Again, you just refuse to believe what you read, if you read any of it at all, and further more, you are making this a personal, which it should not be.

 

 

 

[MorningGlory]

11 hours ago, n2thelight said:

The only way one can really see this is to understand that we were in heaven with God before being born.At death we return.

All who have died are now in heaven,saint and sinner alike.

=

Those whose names are not written in the Book of Life are NOT in Heaven.  The unsaved and unrighteous can not enter Heaven nor be in God's presence.  If you have Scripture to support the above claim, please post it now.  Otherwise your comment has NO credibility.