pre trib rapture is fake true or false

[WilliamL]

On 4/17/2016 at 5:12 PM, Paradigm said:

Serving is right that this kind of discussion is too much a deviation of the actual topic.  I will just say that if you put every proof text that you have in one scale and I put all of the others on the other side, the weight of scripture is strongly at odds with your theology. 

Which is you merely saying "I'm right and you're wrong, end of discussion."

[missmuffet]

3 hours ago, WilliamL said:

Which is you merely saying "I'm right and you're wrong, end of discussion."

That happens a lot on Worthy. Someone coming along and saying " I'm right and you are wrong". Everyone has the opportunity to study the true literal Word of God...right? There have been some who have come up with pre-trib some mid-trib and some post-trib. Time will tell what the real truth is.

[Guest Thallasa]

1 hour ago, bopeep1909 said:

That happens a lot on Worthy. Someone coming along and saying " I'm right and you are wrong". Everyone has the opportunity to study the true literal Word of God...right? There have been some who have come up with pre-trib some mid-trib and some post-trib. Time will tell what the real truth is.

Can you imagine what would have happened if everyone had their own opinon in the 1500's in Europe ?There would be no society at all . As it happens one can see that maybe the RCC were correct in many ways after all ,for it is those countries where 'heaven' comes to earth . Having lived in Reformed countries,  and Catholic ones   the fruits are there to see to this day . Where is the division , where is the ultimate breaking of God's law in same sex marriage ? Not in the RCC .

And in which country did this start Holland ,very protestant ? And the Church which John Knox made, has agreed to give in too  .So where is the Holy Spirit in all this disagreement  ? 

I don't know if there is a rapture or not ,but I do know that those who love Jesus will be tried in suffering ,and that it has already begun . I  see some are backing away from confronting the lies in society by talking around  these endless  subjects  .

 

[WilliamL]

2 hours ago, bopeep1909 said:

That happens a lot on Worthy. Someone coming along and saying " I'm right and you are wrong". Everyone has the opportunity to study the true literal Word of God...right? There have been some who have come up with pre-trib some mid-trib and some post-trib. Time will tell what the real truth is.

The topic I was referring to -- whether or not the Law of Moses is to be kept by the Church -- has nothing to do with beliefs about the Trib.

[WilliamL]

10 minutes ago, Thallasa said:

Can you imagine what would have happened if everyone had their own opinon in the 1500's in Europe ?There would be no society at all . As it happens one can see that maybe the RCC were correct in many ways after all ,for it is those countries where 'heaven' comes to earth .

Germany's Bavaria, Italy, and Spain were all heavily Catholic when Fascism arose in those places, with no substantive opposition from the RCC. And the RCC aided Nazi war criminals in their escape after WWII. Hardly " 'heaven' come to earth."

It is easy to pick and choose which of a Church's practices to criticize, like it is easier to see the mote in your brother's eye.

[Guest Thallasa]

30 minutes ago, WilliamL said:

Germany's Bavaria, Italy, and Spain were all heavily Catholic when Fascism arose in those places, with no substantive opposition from the RCC. And the RCC aided Nazi war criminals in their escape after WWII. Hardly " 'heaven' come to earth."

It is easy to pick and choose which of a Church's practices to criticize, like it is easier to see the mote in your brother's eye.

I agree with you . One needs to see any many sides as possible,and that would include the truth about the war . But the only reason I mentioned it, is because the majority on this site thinks Catholics are not christians , and that they are 'mystery babylon ' ; not to promote the Church at all , but a balance  of truth .

[n2thelight]

15 hours ago, Montana Marv said:

If that was the case, why try to bury a body, for it is not there.  Who do we see in a casket?  The body of the dead individual.  So the resurrection of the body does not happen at death.  It does not become immortal at death.  A lot of decayed flesh and many bones in them there cemeteries.

In Christ

Montana Marv

Do you believe Christ rose?As a Christian that's the number one thing one should believe....Christ didn't rise thousands of years after the fact,and neither do we

[n2thelight]

You all really think this flesh body will rise,it's not gonna happen,the flesh shall return from whence it came....DUST!!!!,Never to be nor needed again...Learn from Paul,we have two bodies

[Serving]

On 17/04/2016 at 1:50 AM, Last Daze said:

The way I see things currently is:

• The seventh trumpet announces the day of the Lord.  This is the last day of mystery Babylon (Satan's kingdom) when the kingdom of God is established on earth and when Satan is cast into the abyss.
• Immediately after the seventh trumpet sounds, Christ descends to the clouds and sounds the trumpet of God.  The trumpet of God is His shout.
• All who are Christ's are immortal and the angels gather them to Him.

There is more that follows but that part above pertains to the last trumpet.  I don't see where that's in conflict with what you've stated.

Hi Daze,

Sorry bro but this got lost in the mix .. here's my point ..

From these :

Matthew 24:29-31 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken: And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

1 Thessalonians 4:16-17 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

1 Corinthians 15: 51-52 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.

Come these points :

All three verses describe a single trumpet sounding to herald the resurrection

Two verses describe the same trumpet sounding which heralds both the descent of Christ and the resurrection, that is, one trump encompassing two events.

That tells me that both the descent of Christ and the resurrection of the saints are heralded by the same trumpet blast.

Which causes me to envision one single and long sounding trumpet (like when God descended before the Hebrews on the mount Sinai) which trumpet blast got louder and louder, that covers both the descent of Christ and the resurrection of the saints.

I also note that all 3 examples call that trumpet blast which heralds the resurrection by three different titles, highlighted above, along with plain old "trumpet" making 4 references .. I don't see these titles as contradictory to "last trump", but merely as various terms for the same trump with "last trump" being the main key/clue to bind them all together.

So in conclusion, 1 trump heralds two events, the descent of Christ (appearing) and the resurrection of the saints.

Thanks Daze.  

[Last Daze]

7 hours ago, Serving said:

Hi Daze,

Sorry bro but this got lost in the mix .. here's my point ..

From these :

Matthew 24:29-31 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken: And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

1 Thessalonians 4:16-17 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

1 Corinthians 15: 51-52 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.

Come these points :

All three verses describe a single trumpet sounding to herald the resurrection

Two verses describe the same trumpet sounding which heralds both the descent of Christ and the resurrection, that is, one trump encompassing two events.

That tells me that both the descent of Christ and the resurrection of the saints are heralded by the same trumpet blast.

Which causes me to envision one single and long sounding trumpet (like when God descended before the Hebrews on the mount Sinai) which trumpet blast got louder and louder, that covers both the descent of Christ and the resurrection of the saints.

I also note that all 3 examples call that trumpet blast which heralds the resurrection by three different titles, highlighted above, along with plain old "trumpet" making 4 references .. I don't see these titles as contradictory to "last trump", but merely as various terms for the same trump with "last trump" being the main key/clue to bind them all together.

So in conclusion, 1 trump heralds two events, the descent of Christ (appearing) and the resurrection of the saints.

Thanks Daze.  

Okay, I have no problem adjusting my view to a long sounding of the trump of God which begins as He descends, and not after.

The main takeaway, for this thread, is that it clearly happens after  the great tribulation, and people should not be lackadaisical but rather prepare for such an eventuality.  May God give us discernment to see through deception and strength to endure to the end.