pre trib rapture is fake true or false

[Kan]

34 minutes ago, HAZARD said:

How is the rapture different from the resurrection? One can and will be resurrected from the dead as Christ was.

One is never raptured from the dead.

Resurrection:  .  .  .  .  noun

1.  the act of rising from the dead.

 

2.  (initial capital letter) the rising of Christ after His death and burial.

 

3. (initial capital letter) the rising of the dead on Judgment Day.

 

4. the state of those risen from the dead.

 

5. a rising again, as from decay, disuse, etc.; revival.

 

Rapture:  .  .  .  . The transporting of a person alive, from one place to another, especially to heaven.

The Rapture,  .  .  .  .  Theology. the experience, anticipated by some fundamentalist Christians, of meeting Christ midway in the air upon his return to earth.

1 Thess. 4:17, Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

The text you quoted then states that the resurrected go up first and then the rapture occurs after. How come you place the rapture before the resurrection? 

[HAZARD]

13 minutes ago, Kan said:

The text you quoted then states that the resurrected go up first and then the rapture occurs after. How come you place the rapture before the resurrection? 

Christians at death go immediately to heaven to await the resurrection of their bodies which were buried in the earth (2 Cor. 5:8; "We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord." + Phil 1:21-24; Hebrews 12:22-23; Rev. 6:9-11).

When Christ leaves heaven to come down in the air of the Earth (V.17), the saints who are in Heaven now will come back with Him and be reunited with their bodies which will be resurrected in a moment (V. 14; 1 Cor. 15:51-58). 1 Thess. 4:17, Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

[Kan]

1 minute ago, HAZARD said:

Christians at death go immediately to heaven to await the resurrection of their bodies which were buried in the earth (2 Cor. 5:8; "We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord." + Phil 1:21-24; Hebrews 12:22-23; Rev. 6:9-11).

When Christ leaves heaven to come down in the air of the Earth (V.17), the saints who are in Heaven now will come back with Him and be reunited with their bodies which will be resurrected in a moment (V. 14; 1 Cor. 15:51-58). 1 Thess. 4:17, Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

So the second advent is a time for the saints in heaven to collect a body...

But what about the text you quoted which places the rapture after the resurrection?

[HAZARD]

No, The saints in heaven now all come to collect their bodies with Jesus when He returns to rapture those in Him before the tribulation. "The dead will rise first, that is the dead bodies will be raised, the saints who return with Jesus will collect their bodies, and we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

When Jesus rose from the dead and ascended into Heaven He took with Him those in Him, like David, Moses Abraham, the apostles and all His followers and disciple's who died before He paid for our sins and were taken to paradise, Abrahams bosom, because they could not enter Heaven till Jesus died and paid our death penalty.  Eph. 4:8, Wherefore he saith, When he ascended up on high, he led captivity2 captive, and gave gifts unto men.

 Since His death and resurrection, all those who die in Him, as those He died and paid the price for, go to Heaven, leaving their bodies behind in the grave. When Jesus returns in the air to rapture, to take His saints off the earth before the tribulation, to save them going through it, these saints bodies will resurrected and reunited with them as glorious flesh and bone bodies as Jesus has.

[ENOCH2010]

1 hour ago, HAZARD said:

No, The saints in heaven now all come to collect their bodies with Jesus when He returns to rapture those in Him before the tribulation. "The dead will rise first, that is the dead bodies will be raised, the saints who return with Jesus will collect their bodies, and we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

When Jesus rose from the dead and ascended into Heaven He took with Him those in Him, like David, Moses Abraham, the apostles and all His followers and disciple's who died before He paid for our sins and were taken to paradise, Abrahams bosom, because they could not enter Heaven till Jesus died and paid our death penalty.  Eph. 4:8, Wherefore he saith, When he ascended up on high, he led captivity2 captive, and gave gifts unto men.

 Since His death and resurrection, all those who die in Him, as those He died and paid the price for, go to Heaven, leaving their bodies behind in the grave. When Jesus returns in the air to rapture, to take His saints off the earth before the tribulation, to save them going through it, these saints bodies will resurrected and reunited with them as glorious flesh and bone bodies as Jesus has.

Rev:20 plainly tells us when the first resurrection happens. It happens at the second coming, not pre-trib

[HAZARD]

2 hours ago, ENOCH2010 said:

Rev:20 plainly tells us when the first resurrection happens. It happens at the second coming, not pre-trib

 There is much more to this than most recognise and understand or realise. The First Resurrection (Rev. 20:4-6; Dan. 12:3;  John 5:28).

Rev. 20:4-6, And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
   

V. 5, But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.
   

V. 6, Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

This is the resurrection of all the just, the blessed, and the holy from Adam to the Millennium. It covers the period of time from Christ's resurrection to the resurrection of the tribulation saints and the two witnesses. Several raptures are then included in the first resurrection. All who have part in this resurrection will have some part in ruling with Christ, who will not have just a select few, as taught by many (Rev. 20:4-6.

This resurrection may be called the "out resurrection" ; that is, a resurrection out of, or from among the dead (Phil. 3:11-14; 1 Thess. 4:14-17; 1 Cor. 15:51-58; Luke 14:14; 20:35-36; Heb. 11:35; Rev. 20:4-6).

Just as Christ came out from among the dead as "the first fruits" of the dead, so at the Rapture, the "dead in Christ" will come forth from among the wicked dead according to the above passages. Even the Tribulation saints will come out from the wicked dead (Rev. 20:4-6). The wicked dead live not again until the thousand years are finished (Rev. 20:4-6).

The Greek expression "ek nekron," out of the dead is used 49 times and teaches a select resurrection from the dead -  the righteous selected from among the wicked -  but it does not teach a select resurrection of some righteous from among the righteous (Matt. 17:9; mark 9:10; Luke 24:46; Acts 3:15: 4:10: 10:41: 13:30; 17: 31; Rom. 1:4; 4:24; 6:4-9; 8:11; 1 Cor. 15:12, 2o-23; etc.) The theory that a few of the righteous will be selected from among the righteous is a mere human invention based upon a few historical stories of the Old Testament which were never intended as types at all. All the dead and living "In Christ" will be in the first resurrection - not just a few of those in Christ. All those who are out of Christ will be raised together after the Millennium to be judged and cast into the Lake of fire (Rev. 20:4-6).

The "first resurrection" may also be called "The resurrection of the Just," "Resurrection of Life," "a better resurrection," and the resurrection of [from among] the dead (Luke 14:14; John 5:28-29; 11:25; Hebr. 11:35; Phil 3:10-15; Rev. 20:4-6).

The second resurrection (Dan 12:3; John 5:28-29; Rev. 20:4-6.

This is the resurrection  of all the wicked from Adam to the end of the Millennium. It will take place after the millennium and it will also include those who die during the Millennium (Rev. 20:4-6, 11-15). They will be raised with immortal bodies to be tormented in Hell forever (Matt. 10:28; John 5:28-29; 12:24; Dan. 12:3; Acts 24:15; 1 Cor. 15:21, 34-50; Rev. 14:9-12; 19:20; 20:4-6, 11-15).

The method of the resurrection, 1 Cor. 15:35-50). Paul illustrates the method of the resurrection by the death and resurrection of a grain of wheat or some other grain. The process that a grain goes through is clear to all, so if this process is applied to the method of resurrection it will likewise be clear to all The only difference between grain and the resurrected bodies of men will be in the nature of existence. men will be raised to immortality -  some to everlasting life and some to everlasting shame and contempt (Da,. 12:3; John 5:28-29; Matt. 10:28). Both the righteous and the wicked will live again in their resurrected bodies, but only the righteous will enter into various glories and have different rewards and responsibilities of rulership in God's eternal affairs (1 Cor. 3:11-15; 15:21-23; 39-50; Rom. 14, 2 Cor. 5:10; Rev. 20:4-6.

The theory that only the righteous will be raised to immortality is false and not founded on one Scripture. The method of the resurrection of the just and unjust is plainly taught and illustrated by a grain of wheat of any other grain as explained above.

So what makes the difference betweenthe two resurrections? Does not a bad poisonous seed reproduce in the same was a good seed does> Do not both have to go through the same process? The resurrection of men follows this same process. The only difference will be in the glory of one man over another. However, saved and unsaved will be immortal as plainly taught in all Scripture. Not one statement was ever made to the contrary.

 

[Kan]

3 hours ago, HAZARD said:

No, The saints in heaven now all come to collect their bodies with Jesus when He returns to rapture those in Him before the tribulation. "The dead will rise first, that is the dead bodies will be raised, the saints who return with Jesus will collect their bodies, and we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

When Jesus rose from the dead and ascended into Heaven He took with Him those in Him, like David, Moses Abraham, the apostles and all His followers and disciple's who died before He paid for our sins and were taken to paradise, Abrahams bosom, because they could not enter Heaven till Jesus died and paid our death penalty.  Eph. 4:8, Wherefore he saith, When he ascended up on high, he led captivity2 captive, and gave gifts unto men.

 Since His death and resurrection, all those who die in Him, as those He died and paid the price for, go to Heaven, leaving their bodies behind in the grave. When Jesus returns in the air to rapture, to take His saints off the earth before the tribulation, to save them going through it, these saints bodies will resurrected and reunited with them as glorious flesh and bone bodies as Jesus has.

That sounds fine,  I was under the impression that the rapture occurred before that as a different event than the second advent, and now you are saying its all one event?

[HAZARD]

2 minutes ago, Kan said:

That sounds fine,  I was under the impression that the rapture occurred before that as a different event than the second advent, and now you are saying its all one event?

In  a nutshell. There will be a pre-trib. rapture, the saints who Jesus took with Him after His resurrection, will come back with Him when He comes back to rapture those on Earth now, meeting them in the air, to save them from the tribulation, those who come with Him will claim their bodies and we who are raptured will meet them and Him together, in the air and be taken to Heaven for the length of the tribulation. Then at His second coming directly to the earth, we will all accompany Him to put down all rebellion, Christ will destroy the antichrist, lock Satan up for a thousand years and usher in His thousand year reign. Satan will then be loosed for a time so Christ can see who will remain true to Him. Those who are not will be then cast into the lake of fire with Satan and his rebel angels and demons. Those who remain faithful will remain on the Earth forever. Christ will renew the Earth by fire, God will bring His city to the Earth and be with man for ever and ever.

[HAZARD]

There is no third coming.

The age to come is that time from the second advent of Christ to the New Heaven and the New Earth. It takes in only ONE dispensation - the Millennium.

This will be the last age before the eternal perfect state when God will again be all-in-all as before the rebellion started in the universe.

In Rev. 20:1-15 we have the expulsion of Satan from the Earth, the Millennial Reign of Christ and His saints, Satan's post millennial career his doom, and then the final judgment.

Rev. 20: 1, And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand.
    2, And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years,
    3, And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.
    4, And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
    5, But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.
    6, Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.
    7, And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,
    8, And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.
    9, And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.
    10, And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.
    11, And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them.
    12, And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.
    13, And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell1 delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.
    14, And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.
    15, And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

This thread is about the Pre-Tribulation rapture. God is not going to rapture anyone post trib. Everything that happens post trib. is explained in the above Scriptures. After the tribulation God Himself along with His Son and Holy Spirit will set up a divine government on Earth over all nations forever. The first thousand years of God's reign is called the Millennium which simply means one thousand years. The thousand years reign of Christ (Rev. 20:1-10). There is no mention of God ever taking anyone away from the Earth after the tribulation and "squirreling" them away at this very important time. All His saints will be here, they came with Him they will stay with Him. Those who were not raptured but repented and survived the tribulation and never faltered when Satan was loosed for a time after the Millennium will go on into the new earth and live forever.

One thing we can emphasize in connection with the 1,000 years: that this will only be the first 1,000 years wherein Christ will reign on earth. He will continue to reign over the same kingdom eternally ; and the first 1,000 years will be for the express purpose of ridding the earth of all rebellion, destroying all enemies, destroying death and sin, and restoring this part of God's universal kingdom to its place over all other creations, as it was before sin entered through Lucifer and Adam who headed the rebellions of their respective kingdoms. In this Millennial age God will gather together all things in Christ, both the things which are in Heaven, and which are on the Earth (1 Cor. 15:24-28; Eph. 1:10; Rev. 22:4-5).

[coheir]

17 minutes ago, HAZARD said:

There is no third coming.

The age to come is that time from the second advent of Christ to the New Heaven and the New Earth. It takes in only ONE dispensation - the Millennium.

This will be the last age before the eternal perfect state when God will again be all-in-all as before the rebellion started in the universe.

In Rev. 20:1-15 we have the expulsion of Satan from the Earth, the Millennial Reign of Christ and His saints, Satan's post millennial career his doom, and then the final judgment.

Rev. 20: 1, And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand.
    2, And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years,
    3, And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.
    4, And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
    5, But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.
    6, Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.
    7, And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,
    8, And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.
    9, And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.
    10, And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.
    11, And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them.
    12, And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.
    13, And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell1 delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.
    14, And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.
    15, And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

This thread is about the Pre-Tribulation rapture. God is not going to rapture anyone post trib. Everything that happens post trib. is explained in the above Scriptures. After the tribulation God Himself along with His Son and Holy Spirit will set up a divine government on Earth over all nations forever. The first thousand years of God's reign is called the Millennium which simply means one thousand years. The thousand years reign of Christ (Rev. 20:1-10). There is no mention of God ever taking anyone away from the Earth after the tribulation and "squirreling" them away at this very important time. All His saints will be here, they came with Him they will stay with Him. Those who were not raptured but repented and survived the tribulation and never faltered when Satan was loosed for a time after the Millennium will go on into the new earth and live forever.

One thing we can emphasize in connection with the 1,000 years: that this will only be the first 1,000 years wherein Christ will reign on earth. He will continue to reign over the same kingdom eternally ; and the first 1,000 years will be for the express purpose of ridding the earth of all rebellion, destroying all enemies, destroying death and sin, and restoring this part of God's universal kingdom to its place over all other creations, as it was before sin entered through Lucifer and Adam who headed the rebellions of their respective kingdoms. In this Millennial age God will gather together all things in Christ, both the things which are in Heaven, and which are on the Earth (1 Cor. 15:24-28; Eph. 1:10; Rev. 22:4-5).

I would like some info please; The bible says flesh and blood cannot inherit heaven. your post sounds like flesh and blood will be in heaven for a while. also I was under the impression that saints go to heaven; you state we will come back to earth in our human body and live forever as humans on earth; help me out please