Could we know God and salvation by only the TANAKH ?

[simplejeff]

1 hour ago, kwikphilly said:

Quote

a direct revelation from God about Jesus is needed.

To sum it up,that was pretty much my point when I was referring to Abraham & the prophets,,,,,,,,that is why I asked if S Saved was referring to someone who had no access to the NT (hearing,reading etc...),for some obscure reason,,,,,,,,,Or talking about the people that lived & dies before Jesus was born,,,,,,,,,,,,,

Both ? As revelation is needed for anyone to know anything true.

Access to the new testament , even to the complete Scripture , even to the original, 

still requires revelation / grace/ from the Father in heaven. 

A LOT of people TODAY have many bibles,  and NO REVELATION from YAHWEH.  Right ?

[Ezra]

1 hour ago, SINNERSAVED said:

do you consider your self to be a teacher of the word ?

Whether or not I am a teacher is beside the point. If we do not wholeheartedly believe the fundamentals of the faith, we have no right to say anything.  Most Christian forums require acceptance of their Statement of Faith.

[kwikphilly]

Blessings Jeff....

    Both what? Have no idea what you are asking by saying "Both?' & are you asking me whether or not people can read the Bible & not receive revelation ? All revelation is by the Power of the Holy Spirit which we are indwelled........

Quote

King James Bible
Trust in the LORD with all thine heart; and lean not unto thine own understanding         Proverbs 3:5

Unfortunately there are people that depend only on their own unreliable heart & mind ,these are them that look & do not see.......

Quote

King James Bible
But blessed are your eyes, for they see: and your ears, for they hear.            Matthew 13:16

                    Glory to God                             With love-in Christ,Kwik

[FresnoJoe]

Salvation In The

Thy word have I hid in mine heart, that I might not sin against thee. Psalms 119:11

First Testament

Then said I, Lo, I come: in the volume of the book it is written of me, Psalms 40:7

Of Jesus

But he was wounded for our transgressions, he was bruised for our iniquities: the chastisement of our peace was upon him; and with his stripes we are healed. Isaiah 53:5

~

Salvation In The

So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God. Romans 10:16

Second Testament

Then said I, Lo, I come (in the volume of the book it is written of me,) to do thy will, O God. Hebrews 10:7

Of Jesus

Who his own self bare our sins in his own body on the tree, that we, being dead to sins, should live unto righteousness: by whose stripes ye were healed. 1 Peter 2:24

~

Beloved,

Behold, his soul which is lifted up is not upright in him: but the just shall live by his faith. Habakkuk 2:4

Can There Ever

Thy words were found, and I did eat them; and thy word was unto me the joy and rejoicing of mine heart: for I am called by thy name, O LORD God of hosts. Jeremiah 15:16

Be Any Doubt

Him that overcometh will I make a pillar in the temple of my God, and he shall go no more out: and I will write upon him the name of my God, and the name of the city of my God, which is new Jerusalem, which cometh down out of heaven from my God: and I will write upon him my new name. Revelation 3:12

Love, Your Brother Joe

[Qnts2]

18 hours ago, gdemoss said:

Yes, the OT is sufficient to come to a saving knowledge of Christ and his power to save.

Jhn 5:39 Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me.

The OT scriptures taught of faith in Christ who was in the prophets of old that had salvation in him alone.

1Pe 1:11Searching what, or what manner of time the Spirit of Christ which was in them did signify, when it testified beforehand the sufferings of Christ, and the glory that should follow.

There have always been people who have walked with God in Christ who had salvation through Christ who is eternal life.  The whole OT is a declaration of those who did that was intended to bring many more to the same life giving relationship with God.

Just wanted to finish the verses you quoted.

John 5:39 Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me. 40 And ye will not come to me, that ye might have life.

Who do we have to come to to receive life? Who is the Messiah we have to go to? We do not know Who the Messiah is to come to without the NT. No, the OT is not sufficient to have a saving knowledge of the Messiah, because we must come to Jesus to have life. The OT does not reveal that Jesus is the Messiah. Before Jesus came to earth as the Messiah, people could by faith believe in God's promises of the Messiah, given in the OT, but once Jesus came, we need to come to Jesus. 

[Ezra]

26 minutes ago, Qnts2 said:

No, the OT is not sufficient to have a saving knowledge of the Messiah, because we must come to Jesus to have life. The OT does not reveal that Jesus is the Messiah. 

Precisely. Please note 2 Cor 3:14-16:

But their minds were blinded: for until this day remaineth the same vail untaken away in the reading of the old testament; which vail is done away in Christ. But even unto this day, when Moses is read, the vail is upon their heart.  Nevertheless when it shall turn to the Lord, the vail shall be taken away.

 

As already mentioned, to talk about the OT by itself today is purely hypothetical, and indeed unacceptable.

[SINNERSAVED]

5 minutes ago, Ezra said:

Precisely. Please note 2 Cor 3:14-16:

But their minds were blinded: for until this day remaineth the same vail untaken away in the reading of the old testament; which vail is done away in Christ. But even unto this day, when Moses is read, the vail is upon their heart.  Nevertheless when it shall turn to the Lord, the vail shall be taken away.

 

 

 

As already mentioned, to talk about the OT by itself today is purely hypothetical, and indeed unacceptable.

I disagree , you have to really seek God for who He is , and not what society today makes God out to be, there is more then enough to bring people to God and be saved, and to repent of there ways, it has been shown in this post, of one person already shown, that it can be done, but you dismiss it, and say opposite, you refuse to try to see Gods holy power, in the old,

and say God has no power in the scriptures of the old to bring men to him self, and you say we need the NT, it is unacceptable to you, but that does not make it right, ?

 for if you are trying to make a point what can and cannot be, please do not , insult others by your wisdom?

have you read the post given by the above in the post ,with the old scriptures it was like poetry ,  very spirit filled, and beautiful.

you have not read it, ,for it shows real truth ,

[gdemoss]

4 hours ago, Qnts2 said:

Just wanted to finish the verses you quoted.

John 5:39 Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me. 40 And ye will not come to me, that ye might have life.

Who do we have to come to to receive life? Who is the Messiah we have to go to? We do not know Who the Messiah is to come to without the NT. No, the OT is not sufficient to have a saving knowledge of the Messiah, because we must come to Jesus to have life. The OT does not reveal that Jesus is the Messiah. Before Jesus came to earth as the Messiah, people could by faith believe in God's promises of the Messiah, given in the OT, but once Jesus came, we need to come to Jesus. 

That is not true.  In the OT he was known as the I AM THAT I AM or the self existent one.  In the NT he is known as Jesus or the self existent one is salvation.  The difference is in the NT we see him in the flesh 100% of every word and deed controlled by God.  In the OT we see prophets who had the Spirit of Christ in them.  They had the law to lead them unto Christ. He dwelt with them.

[Eha]

5 hours ago, gdemoss said:

 In the OT he was known as the I AM THAT I AM or the self existent one.

You sure?
Jesus are One with Father, but He is Son, you sure Hes Name is  I AM THAT I AM? Because that means He is SAME as Father, but He is not
there is something about Hes birth

Proverbs 8

The Lord created me at the beginning of his way,
    before his deeds long in the past.
²³ I was formed in ancient times,
    at the beginning, before the earth was.
²⁴ When there were no watery depths, I was brought forth,
    when there were no springs flowing with water.
²⁵ Before the mountains were settled,
    before the hills, I was brought forth;
²⁶     before God made the earth and the fields
    or the first of the dry land.
²⁷ I was there when he established the heavens,
    when he marked out the horizon on the deep sea,
²⁸     when he thickened the clouds above,
    when he secured the fountains of the deep,
²⁹     when he set a limit for the sea,
        so the water couldn’t go beyond his command,
    when he marked out the earth’s foundations.
³⁰ I was beside him as a master of crafts.
    I was having fun,
    smiling before him all the time,
³¹     frolicking with his inhabited earth
    and delighting in the human race.

so Son was created... Because He IS WORD and HE IS through  Who everything were made, YET HE IS NOT FATHER, even One with Him

I was beside him as a master of crafts 

in the bible is even described how exactly Jesus was created  

Edited March 24, 2016 by Eha
oops happens

[Qnts2]

12 hours ago, SINNERSAVED said:

I disagree , you have to really seek God for who He is , and not what society today makes God out to be, there is more then enough to bring people to God and be saved, and to repent of there ways, it has been shown in this post, of one person already shown, that it can be done, but you dismiss it, and say opposite, you refuse to try to see Gods holy power, in the old,

and say God has no power in the scriptures of the old to bring men to him self, and you say we need the NT, it is unacceptable to you, but that does not make it right, ?

 for if you are trying to make a point what can and cannot be, please do not , insult others by your wisdom?

have you read the post given by the above in the post ,with the old scriptures it was like poetry ,  very spirit filled, and beautiful.

you have not read it, ,for it shows real truth ,

Again, I have read it. It does not mention Jesus. I'll repeat a verse I gave previously.

John 14:5 “I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.”

The only way one comes to the Father is through Jesus. Jesus is the way, the truth and the life. Without knowing that Jesus is the Messiah, and knowing what Jesus did, and coming to Him, you have not come to the Father.

I am simply making the same point as what I read in scripture. There was a reason why the Apostles and disciples went and preached the gospel of Jesus to the Jewish people.

1 Cor 9:19For though I am free from all men, I have made myself a slave to all, so that I may win more. ²⁰ To the Jews I became as a Jew, so that I might win Jews; to those who are under the Law, as under the Law though not being myself under the Law, so that I might win those who are under the Law; ²¹ to those who are without law, as without law, though not being without the law of God but under the law of Christ, so that I might win those who are without law. ²² To the weak I became weak, that I might win the weak; I have become all things to all men, so that I may by all means save some. ²³ I do all things for the sake of the gospel, so that I may become a fellow partaker of it.

Do you think a person can be saved apart from Jesus?