The Sabbath and Sunday Worship.

[HAZARD]

On ‎23‎/‎03‎/‎2016 at 2:54 PM, Prayerful Flower said:

Well should Christians Celebrate Both the Sabbath  and Sunday Church Worship,as practiced today in Christian Faith Traditions? or should we Celebrate each day as a Sabbath Rest Spiritual Worship Celebration in Our Lord Jesus Christ?

Col. 2:16, "Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holy day, or of the new moon, oor of the Sabbath days:"

The whole law of Moses was against us and contrary to us and had to be taken out of the way by Christ or redemption could never have been experienced. The law made no provision for redemption. It only killed all men because all broke the law and could not possibly keep it all. Christ took the law of Moses out of the way (out of themidst), so we do not have to remain under its curse and eternal death penalty. Since it is now out of the way, let us no stumble over it again. Keep it out of the way.

Rom. 14:5-6. Rom. 14:5, One man esteemeth one day above another: another esteemeth every day alike. Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind.
V. 6, He that regardeth the day, regardeth it unto the Lord; and he that regardeth not the day, to the Lord he doth not regard it. He that eateth, eateth to the Lord, for he giveth God thanks; and he that eateth not, to the Lord he eateth not, and giveth God thanks.
Gal. 4:9-10.
Gal. 4:9, But now, after that ye have known God, or rather are known of God, how turn ye again to the weak and beggarly elements, whereunto ye desire again to be in bondage?
V. 10, Ye observe days, and months, and times, and years.
Coll. 2:14-17;
Coll. 2:14, Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;
V. 15, And having spoiled principalities and powers, he made a shew of them openly, triumphing over them in it.
V. 16, ¶ Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:
V. 17, Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ.
 
Paul wrote, But why dost thou judge they brother? or why dost thou set at nought they brother? for we shall all stand before the judgment seat of Christ . . . . So the every one of us shall give account of himself to God. Let us not therefore judge one another any more."

If the law of Moses, including the fourth commandment, was in force in the new covenant the above statement would never have been written by Paul. Each Christian can do as he pleases concerning the Sabbath and is not to be judged by his brother "Any More."

Christian experiences do not come by the law. "Receive ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?. . . .the law is not of faith: but. the man who doeth them [things of the law] shall live in them. . . . how turn ye AGAIN to the weak beggarly elements, whereunto ye desire to be in bondage?" (Gal. 1:6-9; 2:15-21; 3:1-12, 19-25; 4:1-3, 19-31; 5:1-9, 11-21).

"Ye observe days, and months, and times, and years [that the law required]. I am afraid of you, lest I have bestowed labour upon you in vain" (Gal. 3:1-12; 4:9-11). Going back to observe Sabbaths according to the law is spoken of here as going back into the bondage of the law. If one does this he is a debtor to do the whole law (Gal. 5:3).

The law was added because of transgressions, TILL THE SEED [Christ] SHOULD COME to whom the promise was made . . . But before faith came [that Christ brought in the gospel and the new covenant, Heb. 12:1, 2],we were kept under the law, shut up unto that faith WHICH SHOULD AFTERWARDS BE REVEALED. . . .Wherefor the law was our schoolmaster to bring us to Christ, THAT we might be justified by faith. BUT AFTER that faith is come, WE ARE NO LONGER UNDER A SCHOOLMASTER" (Gal 3:19-25). Not being under the law here is explained as being out from under its authority like one who is no longer under a schoolmaster when we graduate from school. The law is not in force and it has no claim or authority over the person under the new covenant. He is under the obligation to keep the new covenant laws and commandments, which include new laws that were never part of the old covenant, as well as those that God saw fit to make a part of the new covenant.

The law, including the ten commandments, has been "CAST OUT"; "Tell me YE DESIRE TO BE UNDER THE LAW, do ye not hear the law. For it is written that Abraham had TWO SONS. . . . he who was of the BONDWOMAN was born after the flesh; but he of the FREEWOMAN was by promise. WHICH THINGS ARE AN ALLEGORY: for THESE ARE THE TWO COVENANTS; THE ONE FROM MOUNT SINAI, which GENDERETH TO BONDAGE, is [Hagar]. . . .and answereth to Jerusalem which now is, and IS IN BONDAGE with her children. But Jerusalem which is above IS FREE, which in the mother of us all. . . .Now we, brethren, as Isaac, are the children of promise. BUT AS EVEN SO IT IS NOW. Nevertheless what sayeth the Scripture? CAST OUT THE BONDWOMAN [the first or old covenant FROM MOUNT SINAI]  AND HER SON [those under the law]; for the son of the bondwoman shall not be heir with the son of the freewoman. So then brethren, WE ARE NOT CHILDREN OF THE BONDWOMAN [the old ten commandment covenant and its many laws], BUT OF THE FREE [the new covenant]. Stand fast therefor IN THE LIBERTY wherein Christ hath made us FREE, and BE NOT ENTANGLED AGAIN, WHITH THE YOKE OF BONDAGE [the old covenant]. . . .  For I testify again to every man that is circumcised [no man had any part in the old covenant unless he was circumcised], that he is a debtor TO DO THE WHOLE LAW" (Gal. 4:21-31; 5:1-5, 18).
 

[Leonardo Von]

On 3/23/2016 at 0:54 AM, Prayerful Flower said:

Well should Christians Celebrate Both the Sabbath  and Sunday Church Worship,as practiced today in Christian Faith Traditions? or should we Celebrate each day as a Sabbath Rest Spiritual Worship Celebration in Our Lord Jesus Christ?

Jesus does not want us to worship him only on Sabbath or Sunday. See the characteristic of the praise of the four living creatures:

 

o   “And the four beasts had each of them six wings about him; and they were full of eyes within: and they rest not day and night, saying, Holy, holy, holy, LORD God Almighty, which was, and is, and is to come.” (Revelation 4.8).

 

As for the worship promoted by these living beings, this teaches us how to praise the Eternal:

 

o   Constantly and uninterrupted;

o   United with our brothers, without ever dividing ourselves;

o   Full of gratitude and love rather than being cold and formal;

o   In deeper humility, recognizing our actual spiritual situation rather than bragging about our talents.

 

Just as the worshipers of Ha-Satan have no rest day or night (Rev 14: 10-11), these living creatures do not either. The difference, however, is that they never rest from doing what pleases the Eternal, while those never tire of doing and suffering evil, of tormenting and being tormented. With the excuse that they want to achieve good, the worshipers of the beast are always doing evil, since, without Jesus, the only way for someone to receive something is to take of someone (Proverbs 12.12).

May Jesus give us courage and love to praise the Eternal every second, for as long as we are thinking of being pleasing to Him, we are being free to harm our neighbor for whom Jesus died.

[WailingWall]

On 6/14/2016 at 5:17 PM, HAZARD said:

Gal. 4:9-10.

Gal. 4:9, But now, after that ye have known God, or rather are known of God, how turn ye again to the weak and beggarly elements, whereunto ye desire again to be in bondage?
V. 10, Ye observe days, and months, and times, and years.
 

Hey Hazard. Ya think this is talking about keeping Gods sabbath days? Not so.

GAL.4 [8] Howbeit then, when ye knew not God, ye did service unto them which by nature are no gods.[9] But now, after that ye have known God, or rather are known of God, how turn ye again to the weak and beggarly elements, whereunto ye desire again to be in bondage? [10] YE OBSERVE DAYS, AND MONTHS, AND TIMES, AND YEARS.[11] I am afraid of you, lest I have bestowed upon you labour in vain.

Galatians 4 says nothing about sabbaths or feast days. Its speaking of those who observe times.

DEUT.18 [9] When thou art come into the land which the LORD thy God giveth thee, thou shalt not learn to do after the abominations of those nations.[10] There shall not be found among you any one that maketh his son or his daughter to pass through the fire, or that useth divination, OR AN OBSERVER OF TIMES, or an enchanter, or a witch,[11] Or a charmer, or a consulter with familiar spirits, or a wizard, or a necromancer.

The same thing goes on to this very day. Its speaking of the occult. Those who observe certain days by use of horoscopes?

2 CHR.33 [3] For he built again the high places which Hezekiah his father had broken down, and he reared up altars for Baalim, and made groves, and worshipped all the host of heaven, and served them.[4] Also he built altars in the house of the LORD, whereof the LORD had said, In Jerusalem shall my name be for ever.[5] And he built altars for all the host of heaven in the two courts of the house of the LORD.[6] And he caused his children to pass through the fire in the valley of the son of Hinnom: ALSO HE OBSERVED TIMES, and used enchantments, and used witchcraft, and dealt with a familiar spirit, and with wizards: he wrought much evil in the sight of the LORD, to provoke him to anger

Enchantments, witchcraft, familiar spirits, and wizards. Its speaking of the occult. Not following sabbath days.

LEV.19 [26] Ye shall not eat any thing with the blood: neither shall ye use enchantment, NOR OBSERVE TIMES.[27] Ye shall not round the corners of your heads, neither shalt thou mar the corners of thy beard.[28] Ye shall not make any cuttings in your flesh for the dead, nor print any marks upon you: I am the LORD.[29] Do not prostitute thy daughter, to cause her to be a whore; lest the land fall to whoredom, and the land become full of wickedness.[30] YE SHALL KEEP MY SABBATHS, and reverence my sanctuary: I am the LORD.

I guess this scripture says it all. You shall not observe times BUT you will keep my sabbaths.

 

[Ezra]

40 minutes ago, WailingWall said:

I guess this scripture says it all. You shall not observe times BUT you will keep my sabbaths.

As long as Christians are clear that this was addressed to Israel under the Old Covenant.  However, for the application of the Old Covenant (the Law of Moses) to Christians, study Acts 15 in which there is no mention of sabbath-keeping (which must really upset the Sabbatarians).

When Christ said that He is Lord of the sabbath, He indicated that He is the one who decides which days are significant to Christians, and how sabbaths must be observed. Following His resurrection, the first day of the week (known as the Lord's Day by Christians and as "Sunday" by the world) is our day of worship and rest. As Scripture makes it quite clear, all the holy days of Israel were but types and shadows.

[WailingWall]

8 minutes ago, Ezra said:

However, for the application of the Old Covenant (the Law of Moses) to Christians, study Acts 15 in which there is no mention of sabbath-keeping (which must really upset the Sabbatarians).

With but a little seeking you shall find

ACTS 15 [17] That the residue of men might seek after the Lord, and all the Gentiles, upon whom my name is called, saith the Lord, who doeth all these things. [18] Known unto God are all his works from the beginning of the world. [19] Wherefore my sentence is, that we trouble not them, which from among THE GENTILES are turned to God: [20] But that we write unto them, that THEY ABSTAIN FROM POLLUTIONS OF IDOLS, and from fornication, and from things strangled, and from blood. [21] For Moses of old time hath in every city them that preach him, being read in the synagogues every sabbath day.

ACTS 15 as a whole was speaking as to whether gentiles needed to be circumcized or not.

ACTS 15 [4] And when they were come to Jerusalem, they were received of the church, and of the apostles and elders, and they declared all things that God had done with them. [5] But there rose up certain of the sect of the Pharisees which believed, saying, That IT WAS NEEDFUL TO CIRCUMCISE THEM, and to command them to keep the law of Moses.

ACTS 15 [24] Forasmuch as we have heard, that certain which went out from us have troubled you with words, subverting your souls, saying, YE MUST BE CIRCUMCISED, and keep the law: to whom we gave no such commandment:

Nothing to do with the 10 commandments. So lets look into what pollution of idols {V 20} is all about. Its there we find that we are to be keeping Gods sabbath day.

LEVITICUS 19 [3] Ye shall fear every man his mother, and his father, and KEEP MY SABBATHS: I am the Lord your God. [4] TURN YE NOT UNTO IDOLS, NOR MAKE TO YOURSELVES MOLTEN GODS: I am the Lord your God.

LEVITICUS 26 [1]Ye shall MAKE YOU NO IDOLS NOR GRAVEN IMAGE, neither rear you up a standing image, neither shall ye set up any image of stone in your land, to bow down unto it: for I am the Lord your God. [2] YE SHALL KEEP MY SABBATHS, and reverence my sanctuary: I am the Lord.

EZEKIEL 20 [16]Because they despised my judgments, and walked not in my statutes, BUT POLLUTED MY SABBATHS: FOR THEIR HEART WENT AFTER THEIR IDOLS.

I don’t know what the connection might be as to why graven images and idols are a sign that you don’t keep Gods sabbath but if the WORD says so I believe it. We could have a debate on what an idol is but that would go nowhere but in circles. Does your church have any standing images? I know the churches that do keep the sabbath don’t have any standing images or crosses.

[WailingWall]

14 minutes ago, Ezra said:

When Christ said that He is Lord of the sabbath, He indicated that He is the one who decides which days are significant to Christians, and how sabbaths must be observed.

When Christ said He was Lord of the sabbath He meant what He said. He was Lord of the sabbath. So if Jesus is Lord of the sabbath day why in the world would you look to another day other than the sabbath of which Jesus is Lord of?

[Ezra]

6 minutes ago, WailingWall said:

With but a little seeking you shall find

Except there is NO MENTION of sabbaths in Acts 15.  That conclusively settles the matter for the Church.  

However, if you wish to observe the sabbath, you are also required by the Law of Moses to observe ABSOLUTELY EVERYTHING in the Torah diligently.  The minute you fail, you have broken the whole Law (and no excuses will avail).  And in fact you will fail, since there is no Temple and there is no Levitical priesthood.

[WailingWall]

On 6/14/2016 at 5:17 PM, HAZARD said:

If the law of Moses, including the fourth commandment, was in force in the new covenant the above statement would never have been written by Paul.

So why then was Paul keeping the sabbath?

ACTS 17  [2] AND PAUL, AS HIS MANNER WAS, went in unto them, and three SABBATH DAYS reasoned with them out of the scriptures,[3] Opening and alleging, that Christ must needs have suffered, and risen again from the dead; and that this Jesus, whom I preach unto you, is Christ.

Edited January 4, 2017 by WailingWall

[WailingWall]

50 minutes ago, Ezra said:

Except there is NO MENTION of sabbaths in Acts 15.  That conclusively settles the matter for the Church. 

Just quickly read through Acts 15! Not one mention of "thou shall not kill". Are you sayin....?

[HAZARD]

2 hours ago, WailingWall said:

When Christ said He was Lord of the sabbath He meant what He said. He was Lord of the sabbath. So if Jesus is Lord of the sabbath day why in the world would you look to another day other than the sabbath of which Jesus is Lord of?

The Old Covenant Sabbath has been done away with by Jesus Himself. We now live under the New Covenant.

 

Rom. 14:5-6. Rom. 14:5, One man esteemeth one day above another: another esteemeth every day alike. Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind

.
V. 6, He that regardeth the day, regardeth it unto the Lord; and he that regardeth not the day, to the Lord he doth not regard it. He that eateth, eateth to the Lord, for he giveth God thanks; and he that eateth not, to the Lord he eateth not, and giveth God thanks.
Gal. 4:9-10.

Gal. 4:9, But now, after that ye have known God, or rather are known of God, how turn ye again to the weak and beggarly elements, whereunto ye desire again to be in bondage?

V. 10, Ye observe days, and months, and times, and years.
Coll. 2:14-17;

Coll. 2:14, Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;

V. 15, And having spoiled principalities and powers, he made a shew of them openly, triumphing over them in it.

V. 16, Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the SABBATH DAYS:

V. 17, which are a shadow of things to come; but the body of Christ.

 
Paul wrote, But why dost thou judge they brother? or why dost thou set at nought they brother? for we shall all stand before the judgment seat of Christ . . . . So the every one of us shall give account of himself to God. Let us not therefore judge one another any more."

If the law of Moses, including the fourth commandment, was in force in the new covenant the above statement would never have been written by Paul. Each Christian can do as he pleases concerning the Sabbath and is not to be judged by his brother "Any More."

Christian experiences do not come by the law. "Receive ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?. . . .the law is not of faith: but. the man who doeth them [things of the law] shall live in them. . . . how turn ye AGAIN to the weak beggarly elements, whereunto ye desire to be in bondage?" (Gal. 1:6-9; 2:15-21; 3:1-12, 19-25; 4:1-3, 19-31; 5:1-9, 11-21).

"Ye observe days, and months, and times, and years [that the law required]. I am afraid of you, lest I have bestowed labour upon you in vain" (Gal. 3:1-12; 4:9-11). Going back to observe Sabbaths according to the law is spoken of here as going back into the bondage of the law. If one does this he is a debtor to do the whole law (Gal. 5:3).

The law was added because of transgressions, TILL THE SEED [Christ] SHOULD COME to whom the promise was made . . . But before faith came [that Christ brought in the gospel and the new covenant, Heb. 12:1, 2],we were kept under the law, shut up unto that faith WHICH SHOULD AFTERWARDS BE REVEALED. . . .Wherefor the law was our schoolmaster to bring us to Christ, THAT we might be justified by faith. BUT AFTER that faith is come, WE ARE NO LONGER UNDER A SCHOOLMASTER" (Gal 3:19-25). Not being under the law here is explained as being out from under its authority like one who is no longer under a schoolmaster when we graduate from school. The law is not in force and it has no claim or authority over the person under the new covenant. He is under the obligation to keep the new covenant laws and commandments, which include new laws that were never part of the old covenant, as well as those that God saw fit to make a part of the new covenant.

The law, including the ten commandments, has been "CAST OUT"; "Tell me YE DESIRE TO BE UNDER THE LAW, do ye not hear the law. For it is written that Abraham had TWO SONS. . . . he who was of the BONDWOMAN was born after the flesh; but he of the FREEWOMAN was by promise. WHICH THINGS ARE AN ALLEGORY: for THESE ARE THE TWO COVENANTS; THE ONE FROM MOUNT SINAI, which GENDERETH TO BONDAGE, is [Hagar]. . . .and answereth to Jerusalem which now is, and IS IN BONDAGE with her children. But Jerusalem which is above IS FREE, which in the mother of us all. . . .Now we, brethren, as Isaac, are the children of promise. BUT AS EVEN SO IT IS NOW. Nevertheless what sayeth the Scripture? CAST OUT THE BONDWOMAN [the first or old covenant FROM MOUNT SINAI]  AND HER SON [those under the law]; for the son of the bondwoman shall not be heir with the son of the freewoman. So then brethren, WE ARE NOT CHILDREN OF THE BONDWOMAN [the old ten commandment covenant and its many laws], BUT OF THE FREE [the new covenant]. Stand fast therefor IN THE LIBERTY wherein Christ hath made us FREE, and BE NOT ENTANGLED AGAIN, WHITH THE YOKE OF BONDAGE [the old covenant]. . . .  For I testify again to every man that is circumcised [no man had any part in the old covenant unless he was circumcised], that he is a debtor TO DO THE WHOLE LAW" (Gal. 4:21-31; 5:1-5, 18).