Determining the Dates for Easter and Passover

[SINNERSAVED]

7 minutes ago, MorningGlory said:

My post didn't strengthen anything you stated.  I've read the whole chapter through several times.    Especially this part:

20 Wherefore if ye be dead with Christ from the rudiments of the world, why, as though living in the world, are ye subject to ordinances,

21 (Touch not; taste not; handle not;

22 Which all are to perish with the using;) after the commandments and doctrines of men?

you don't see it ?  and its in big red letters. ?

22 Which all are to perish with the using;) after the                                        commandments and doctrines of men?

 do you see it now ?

[Paradigm]

Very good points SinnerSaved. 

The irony is that like in the 1st Century many seek to hold to the the commandments and doctrines of men  so that they can keep their own tradtions and in the process make void the commandments of God. 

People need to understand that the Bible is a collection of books within the context of the Hebrew language, people and culture. In order to understand its words we have to see it in its broader context rather than seeing it through a 2016, Western, Gentile filter.

We cannot begin with premise absorbed from our current time and culture and then cut and paste the scriptures to conform to our belief system. I think it also important to realize that in the 1st Century people did not have a NT section of the Bible to carry around under their arm. When they refer to "the scriptures", they in most all cases are speaking about the quote "OT."

In fact, that is the way Y'shua and his followers made their case as to his Messiahship. They would begin with the Torah and go through all of the Prophets and the Writings to prove their points.

Paul said that he was only saying what the law and the prophets say. People should ask themselves this question: Can they make their theological point using the law and the prophets as the people of the book did?

If one constantly finds themselves standing opposite of the law and the prophets, (The Two Witnesses) it might be time to reevaluate one's position. The true Messiah and his teachings are supported and confirmed by the law and the prophets. In the end, we cling to the commandments of God or the commandments and doctrines of men. 

[OldSchool2]

9 hours ago, Qnts2 said:

In the Council of Nicea, Constantine asked the council to change the date so that Christians would not have anything in common with the Jewish people....

Many Orthodox Christians, including the Greek and Russian Orthodox churches, celebrate Easter Sunday by the Julian calendar.

[MorningGlory]

10 hours ago, SINNERSAVED said:

you don't see it ?  and its in big red letters. ?

22 Which all are to perish with the using;) after the commandments and doctrines of men?

 do you see it now ?

 

After the commandments and doctrines of men!  I'll requote more of that chapter here:

 

14 Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;

15 And having spoiled principalities and powers, he made a shew of them openly, triumphing over them in it.

16 Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:

17 Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[SINNERSAVED]

6 hours ago, Paradigm said:

Very good points SinnerSaved. 

The irony is that like in the 1st Century many seek to hold to the the commandments and doctrines of men  so that they can keep their own tradtions and in the process make void the commandments of God. 

People need to understand that the Bible is a collection of books within the context of the Hebrew language, people and culture. In order to understand its words we have to see it in its broader context rather than seeing it through a 2016, Western, Gentile filter.

We cannot begin with premise absorbed from our current time and culture and then cut and paste the scriptures to conform to our belief system. I think it also important to realize that in the 1st Century people did not have a NT section of the Bible to carry around under their arm. When they refer to "the scriptures", they in most all cases are speaking about the quote "OT."

In fact, that is the way Y'shua and his followers made their case as to his Messiahship. They would begin with the Torah and go through all of the Prophets and the Writings to prove their points.

Paul said that he was only saying what the law and the prophets say. People should ask themselves this question: Can they make their theological point using the law and the prophets as the people of the book did?

If one constantly finds themselves standing opposite of the law and the prophets, (The Two Witnesses) it might be time to reevaluate one's position. The true Messiah and his teachings are supported and confirmed by the law and the prophets. In the end, we cling to the commandments of God or the commandments and doctrines of men. 

Blessing to you brother, and thank you for those supportive advise, it is great advise, which many are not understanding today , and so when their is a conversation on scripture its like talking a whole different language, and so I also believe what you say is truth and have also tried to share that, with others, and so , its nice to see that God is working a great work, in the believers, and to see the spirit move,

 blessings to you and grace from yahushua ..

[Reinitin]

Here is the deal for me friday crucifixion raised before sun up is just really bad math. Being taken so far away from the truth with false teaching has turned so many on to the broad path. He was in the grave 3 days and 3 nights if you study passover you will see It was as he said.

[SINNERSAVED]

19 hours ago, Paradigm said:

Yes, Messiah is our Passover. Therefore we keep the feast as Paul says.

1 Corinthians 5:7-8  Purge out therefore the old leaven, that ye may be a new lump, as ye are unleavened. For even Messiah our Passover is sacrificed for us: ⁸ Therefore let us keep the feast, not with old leaven, neither with the leaven of malice and wickedness; but with the unleavened bread of sincerity and truth.

However, Israel individual or collectively accepting the Messiah does not determine the length of time the feast is to be kept. For it is written that it is to be done for ever. 

Exodus 12:14  And this day shall be unto you for a memorial; and ye shall keep it a feast to the Lord throughout your generations; ye shall keep it a feast by an ordinance for ever.

 

Yes, Easter is derived from Ishtar the goddess. but there is no but...

The NT does not teach us to do anything on the Lord's day. Although the phrase "Day of the LORD" appears a number of places in scripture. As far as I know, the only time that the term "Lords day" appears is here:

Revelation 1:10 I was in the Spirit on the Lord's day, and heard behind me a great voice, as of a trumpet,

The Lord's day is not Sunday and there is nothing in scripture stating that. The Sabbath is still the eternal sign. 

Exodus 31:17  It is a sign between me and the children of Israel for ever: for in six days the Lord made heaven and earth, and on the seventh day he rested, and was refreshed.

We are told how to show the Messiah's death.

1 Corinthians 11:26 For as often as ye eat this bread, and drink this cup, ye do show the Lord's death till he come.

We must understand though that 1 Corinthians 11:26 is speaking of Passover. This is what Y'shua was doing when he said "As often as you do this, do it in remembrance of me." The gospels in a number of places tell us why Y'shua and his disciples were assembled that night. 

 

 

There is no scriptural passage telling us to keep Easter. I have already addressed "Lord's day." Y'shua died, was buried and rose on Biblical feasts. He was born on a feast, began his minsitry on a feast and will return on a feast. Pentecost is merely the Greek name for Shavuot (Feast of Weeks). Yes, the Spirit was also poured out on a biblical feast. 

The disciples did not begin celebrating pagan festivals and customs after the resurrection. They continued to keep the Sabbath, festivals, etc as we see in a number of places. They were adamantly against practices of paganism. I'm not condemning anyone about any of these things. I use to keep easter and the rest of it too until I found out the truth about these things.  I was shocked as I really began to pour through the scriptures and study a little history. There is a passage in the KJV that could throw some people. The word "easter" does appear once in that translation. However, if you check to see what the Greek word was we see that it paschal which is the same as pesach (Passover). 

 

 

I totally agree with you brother , and so all other celebration is not what most believe it to be, for they have fallen short , of examining the scriptures and to take heed ,of the traditions of men, and so they follow again the other gods , knowingly and unknowingly

 it is the Word of God and the instructions of God that we must follow , and not the world and its celebrations, for it has joined the paganism to be excepted in conjunction to Christianity , and if you want to follow Christianity , it is today the same , as a cult of mans traditional , rituals, that are oppose to the facts and scriptures and Warnings given to us, as God pours out His hate and abominations to His Holiness,

 we are so far into traditions and man made holidays, to not care the consequences of our actions, per to understand the violations caused by those that say they understand and compromise in the process , to be joined as one in the world , the plans of deception was made long ago and we have acquired the cunning and excuses to  participate  in the worship of other gods, and idols, as if it is okay , and yet , if God stood here today , we would be judged in a heart beat for rejecting His counsel and word, to the world

 we are and have the blind leading the blind and they both fall into the ditch, fact and truth ,

 we say we know the ten commandments,  and its on our hearts of men , and yet we do what we are not to do and go against what is sowed into us, and so , what is there in the unjust of the just, what does evil have with Good? what does wickedness have to do with righteousness, where is the line drawn, if we follow the true and living God !! in the bible and take Gods word as truth and follow His instructions and STAY AWAY from the worship of other gods, then we will see the light , for the holy spirit with in the believer will work a work, and open the eyes that are shut, and shut the mouths that blaspyhems and rejects, a Holy and righteous God,

 we are tested today ,. yesterday and tomorrow , so we are with out excuse,

 just my view of this , endless , self denying of the flesh to keep there own Sins and Keep what they want,

blessings and peace

[OldSchool2]

3 hours ago, Cletus said:

Actually it dosent.  What Christians celebrate, for part of it anyway, does.  Easter is pagan....

No, Ishtar is pagan; Easter isn't. And Christmas no longer a celebration of the returning Sun, but the Son of God.

And Easter has everything to do with Passover after Jesus was slain on the cross as the Passover lamb two millennia ago.

[Paradigm]

Good points SinnerSaved, Reinitin and Cletus.

It is unfortunate, but most people have merely inherited a very bad set of beliefs that that hold to be true. I know that I did. Most unfortunately have very little idea what the scriptures say whether Tanakh or NT. They have listened and trusted in leaders who in many cases don't know much either. Many of these people adamantly defend the Bible and claim that there are no contradictions in it. Yet, too often these are the same people who hold to theologies that are a complete contradiction.

As Reintin illustrated above. We could ask people in an average church to raise their hand if they believe the Messiah was in the grave three days and three nights. Most would raise their hands. We could then ask of them if they believe that he died Friday at 3:00pm and rose early Sunday morning. They would raise their hands again and respond like Pavlov's dogs.

We could ask "How many of you know that Jesus did away with the law? Most would again raise their hands. We could say How many of you know that you must tithe and you are under a curse if you don't? 

Those kinds of questions could probably go on and on. 

Unfortunately, it isn't harmless in many cases. For as it is written. "My people perish for lack of knowledge." 

Most have the idea of the age of the law and then the age of the gospel. They do not realize that the Torah is still valid and remains. Likewise, the gospel has been around a long, long time. It is not the 2,000 year old gospel, but as it is written, "the everlasting gospel." This was the gospel that Abraham had preached to him. (Galatians 3) This was the gospel that was preached to the children of Israel when they were in the wilderness. (Hebrews 4:2)

The Messiah did not suddenly come into existence 2,000 years ago. For as it is written. "Abraham saw my day." And again, Moses esteemed the suffering of Messiah greater than the riches of Egypt. And again, the prophets spoke by the spirit of Messiah. The children of Israel ate of the spiritual bread from heaven which was Messiah. For as it is written, "Moses gave you not that bread from heaven, for the bread of God is he that cometh down from heaven. The children of Israel drank of that spiritual rock that followed them which was Messiah as it is written. (1 Cor 10) 

People do not understand what they are doing when they speak evil of the law and turn away their ear's from hearing it. 

Proverbs 28:4 They that forsake the law praise the wicked: but such as keep the law contend with them.

Proverbs 28:9 He that turns away his ear from hearing the law, even his prayer shall be abomination.

 

Most of the time the major errors concerning the Torah are based upon a gross misunderstanding of Shaul (Paul's) writings. Granted Paul wrote many things that are difficult to understand that people who are unlearned and unstable twist to their own destruction as they do the rest of the scriptures. 2 Peter 3)

However Paul makes it clear that the law is good and holy and that rather than making the law void through faith God forbid: We establish it. There is but one faith as it is written and that one faith establishes the law rather than making it void. Yet, the Messiah questioned "Will the son of man find faith on the earth when he returns?"

Paul told us to be followers of him even as he followed the Messiah. Both kept the Sabbath, feasts, etc. Y'shua clearly did not want anyone believing that he came to destroy the law. He said to not think that.

Matthew 5:17-19  Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil. ¹⁸ For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled. ¹⁹ Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

Clearly heaven and earth have not passed away, so that means not one letter of the Torah has past away. In fact, as it is written, "it is easier for heaven and earth to pass away than one decoration on the letters to fail."

 

Luke 16:17 And it is easier for heaven and earth to pass, than one tittle of the law to fail.

After his Damascus road experience Paul still considered himself a Pharisee of Phariseees and blameless concerning the law. He claimed to believe everything written in the law and the prophets and not to be saying anything any different than what they do. However there was still confusion even in his day about his message. Believe it or not, there were people in that day that thought he was some how teaching against the law. To clear up the matter Paul partook in a Nazarite vow including animal sacrifices to prove that all of those allegations were nothing, but they he walked orderly and kept the Torah. 

Acts 21:18-26 ¹⁸ And the day following Paul went in with us unto James; and all the elders were present.

¹⁹ And when he had saluted them, he declared particularly what things God had wrought among the Gentiles by his ministry.

²⁰ And when they heard it, they glorified the Lord, and said unto him, Thou seest, brother, how many thousands of Jews there are which believe; and they are all zealous of the law:

²¹ And they are informed of thee, that thou teachest all the Jews which are among the Gentiles to forsake Moses, saying that they ought not to circumcise their children, neither to walk after the customs.

²² What is it therefore? the multitude must needs come together: for they will hear that thou art come.

²³ Do therefore this that we say to thee: We have four men which have a vow on them;

²⁴ Them take, and purify thyself with them, and be at charges with them, that they may shave their heads: and all may know that those things, whereof they were informed concerning thee, are nothing; but that thou thyself also walkest orderly, and keepest the law.

²⁵ As touching the Gentiles which believe, we have written and concluded that they observe no such thing, save only that they keep themselves from things offered to idols, and from blood, and from strangled, and from fornication.

²⁶ Then Paul took the men, and the next day purifying himself with them entered into the temple, to signify the accomplishment of the days of purification, until that an offering should be offered for every one of them.

I'm sure that Paul thought that all of the false accusations would be behind him. He could have said "You are all correct, Yes, the law has been done away with and that is what I teach." Instead, he spent lots of his own money and time in performing those acts in the temple including sacrifices to prove that the charges are false and that he walks orderly and keeps the law. What more could he have done to clear matters up?

 

1 Corinthians  5:8

Therefore let us keep the feast, not with old leaven, neither with the leaven of malice and wickedness; but with the unleavened bread of sincerity and truth.

 

Acts 18:21     But bade them farewell, saying, I must by all means keep this feast that cometh in Jerusalem: but I will return again unto you, if God will. And he sailed from Ephesus.  

 

Acts 20:6

And we sailed away from Philippi after the days of unleavened bread, and came unto them to Troas in five days; where we abode seven days.

 

Acts 13:14

But when they departed from Perga, they came to Antioch in Pisidia, and went into the synagogue on the sabbath day, and sat down.

 

Acts 13:42And then the Jews were gone out of the synagogue, the Gentiles besought that these words might be preached to them the next sabbath.

 

Acts 13:44 And the next sabbath day came almost the whole city together to hear the word of God.

 

Acts 17:2 And Paul, as his manner was, went in unto them, and three sabbath days reasoned with them out of the scriptures, 

 

Acts 18:4 And he reasoned in the synagogue every sabbath, and persuaded the Jews and the Greeks.

 

So we would have to come to the conclusion that Paul was a hypocrite, schizophrenic, or that a hand full passages that he wrote as a Pharisee of Pharisees and blameless concerning the law have been greatly misunderstood by people who are unlearned and unstable. 

 

2 Peter 3:15-16 And account that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation; even as our beloved brother Paul also according to the wisdom given unto him hath written unto you; 16 As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Ezra]

17 hours ago, SINNERSAVED said:

very well , here you are ,

Not at all. Please note (Col 2:16,17): Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days: Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ.What is Paul teaching here?  That the observance of holy days from the Old Covenant is NOT necessary for Christians.

 is that really what paul, is teaching ? no this is incorrect , !

Why is it incorrect?  Are Christians required to observe the Jewish holy days? Show me one Scripture in the New Testament which says that Christians are required to do so.  Otherwise retract your accusations.

And to confirm that you are the one who is always opposing the New Testament teachings (which are the teachings of Christ) let me show you another Scripture which says that all OT ceremonial observances are NULL AND VOID because they were good only until "the time of reformation" which has already come (Heb 9:10):  Which was a figure for the time then present, in which were offered both gifts and sacrifices, that could not make him that did the service perfect, as pertaining to the conscience; Which stood only in meats and drinks, and divers washings, and carnal ordinances, imposed on them until the time of reformation.

Temple gifts and sacrifices, dietary restrictions, ceremonial washings, and all carnal observances (including holy days) are now obsolete.