Why do people say, Catholics are Christians ?

[Guest]

10 minutes ago, saved34 said:

All true but great error in calling her the mother of God. Scripture is ripe with passages on the Deity of our Lord, but is completely silent on calling a created being mother of God

You say all true. What's all true? It seems you agree The son of God existed prior to his incarnation. So where did The Son of God get his human nature from? Mary did not give birth to a blob of flesh. She gave birth to the son of God who is God (trinity doctrine remains intact). So what is great error about that?

Another misconception of those which ignore the history of their own faith is.....These doctrines were never formed so as to understand these things with our human understanding. Rather they were to address issues which were error brought forth from human understanding. The Fathers of the councils never sought to explain these things, as they could not. But rather they sought to expel wrong ways which heretics did explain it. God is not able to be comprehended by our human minds. But we can grab hold of truths we are given none the less and guard those truths against error.

[Ezra]

21 hours ago, Thallasa said:

Well I will ask this question (something I never really thought about before ); If Mary had refused ,how would Jesus have been born ?   

This is purely hypothetical, but there is no reason to believe that God could not have found someone else meeting the same criteria. What we often forget is that within the New Testament, we do not find Christ addressing Mary as "Mother" but always as "Woman".  This has some significance.

[Guest]

4 minutes ago, Ezra said:

This is purely hypothetical, but there is no reason to believe that God could not have found someone else meeting the same criteria. What we often forget is that within the New Testament, we do not find Christ addressing Mary as "Mother" but always as "Woman".  This has some significance.

So what? She was his mother. She was referred to as his mother many times. Elizabeth spoke to her as such.

Ezra, why twist this issue and the significance it had in history? It had no such notions as some here are giving to it.

The Church fathers never spoke to this controversy, to say Mary was a source of his deity. He was already proclaimed deity as the Son (trinity) before he took on flesh. Why do moderns twist the ideas and issues these terms had in history? All they did was hold councils concerning what HERETICS WERE MAKING ISSUES, to deny the earlier doctrines established namely the trinity. Actually denying THEOTOKOS for heretics was to deny the triune nature of God. Now you all want to make it out to mean Mary was the source of him being God...What error at history.

[Guest]

37 minutes ago, Ezra said:

This is purely hypothetical, but there is no reason to believe that God could not have found someone else meeting the same criteria.

True. And God possibly could have found someone besides Noah as well

Heb 11:7  By faith Noah, being warned of God of things not seen as yet, moved with fear, prepared an ark to the saving of his house; by the which he condemned the world, and became heir of the righteousness which is by faith. {moved…: or, being wary }
Ge 5:29  And he called his name Noah, saying, This same shall comfort us concerning our work and toil of our hands, because of the ground which the LORD hath cursed.

[MorningGlory]

1 hour ago, Ezra said:

This is purely hypothetical, but there is no reason to believe that God could not have found someone else meeting the same criteria. What we often forget is that within the New Testament, we do not find Christ addressing Mary as "Mother" but always as "Woman".  This has some significance.

That used to bother me until I realized that Jesus would never be disrespectful to His mother so I had to figure out why He called Mary 'woman'.  And then I decided that He called her that because He sees things in a different way than we do; He sees 'man', 'woman', 'children', 'world', 'satan', etc. in the all inclusive sense, IMO.

[Your closest friendnt]

Mary must be the woman the scripture in Genesis is referring to.

Mary must be the vessel, to be used to bring forth the second Adam. 

A man that has the Life in him.

No man had the life in him, and Jesus can not be the descendad of any man.

The Angel Gabriel gave witness to that. 

Look what Elizabeth said to Mary, no one knew that Mary was expecting, Mary had not tell anyone, Elizabeth did not know.

Yet when Elizabeth show Mary from far coming towards to her she said, " bless is you who carry in her womb our Lord God".

We have to be careful for Neither Elizabeth new about such terms as " Father, Son and Holy Spirit ".

For Jesus was the one who was meant to reveal the Heavenly Father to them.

That time the Jews did not have the Heavenly Father, they only had the Lord God who was came from the Father, if you want to call him the Creator of all " the Son of the Heavenly Father before he left everything to take flesh, to be just like us" that,' OK, and as the man Jesus, God call him his Son, his inly Son because the Heavenly Father had only one Son the Lord God the creator of all, who also created Man in the beginning and now is found him self in the form of a man, 

Many times the Heavenly Father call him his only Son while Jesus was here with us, not only because he was the one from God from the beginning, but also while in the flesh he had not sin and he continuum to be one with him, he still had in him the life of The Heavenly Father, which Life he had from the beginning. 

Hope I have answer your question, that you know I don't denied the Origin of Jesus that he was from God and he was the Creator of all with the life of God in him.

[spiderman1917]

On 4/10/2016 at 7:25 PM, algots said:

WOW, so, by that definition demons are Christians, too. And let's not forget Lucifer. He was right there when all this happened, so I'm sure Satan believes it, too.

 

Scripture says the Demons believe and tremble. We, on the other hand, have professing believers who have no problem showing off their unbelief.

The Catholic Church teaches that we shouldn't be proud, lust, covet, envy, dong commit sloth or gluttony, feed the hungry, clothe those in need of clothes, put God first in your life, don't commit Idolatry, forgive people that you be forgiven.

The Devil teaches none of that.

I have never heard anyone say protestants and Catholics are the same.  However, if you were to ask a Catholic who knew their faith, who Jesus was, chances are you would both believe the same thing.

Here is a list of the most important Dogmas a Catholic is supposed to believe:

We believe (I believe) in one God, the Father Almighty, maker of heaven and earth, and of all things visible and invisible. And in one Lord Jesus Christ, the only begotten Son of God, and born of the Father before all ages. (God of God) light of light, true God of true God.

Begotten not made, consubstantial to the Father, by whom all things were made. Who for us men and for our salvation came down from heaven. And was incarnate of the Holy Ghost and of the Virgin Mary and was made man; was crucified also for us under Pontius Pilate, suffered and was buried; and the third day rose again according to the Scriptures.

And ascended into heaven, sits at the right hand of the Father, and shall come again with glory to judge the living and the dead, of whose Kingdom there shall be no end. And (I believe) in the Holy Ghost, the Lord and Giver of life, who proceeds from the Father (and the Son), who together with the Father and the Son is to be adored and glorified, who spoke by the Prophets.  And one holy, catholic, and apostolic Church. We confess (I confess) one baptism for the remission of sins. And we look for (I look for) the resurrection of the dead and the life of the world to come. Amen."

[Qnts2]

12 minutes ago, spiderman1917 said:

The Catholic Church teaches that we shouldn't be proud, lust, covet, envy, dong commit sloth or gluttony, feed the hungry, clothe those in need of clothes, put God first in your life, don't commit Idolatry, forgive people that you be forgiven.

The Devil teaches none of that.

I have never heard anyone say protestants and Catholics are the same.  However, if you were to ask a Catholic who knew their faith, who Jesus was, chances are you would both believe the same thing.

Here is a list of the most important Dogmas a Catholic is supposed to believe:

We believe (I believe) in one God, the Father Almighty, maker of heaven and earth, and of all things visible and invisible. And in one Lord Jesus Christ, the only begotten Son of God, and born of the Father before all ages. (God of God) light of light, true God of true God.

Begotten not made, consubstantial to the Father, by whom all things were made. Who for us men and for our salvation came down from heaven. And was incarnate of the Holy Ghost and of the Virgin Mary and was made man; was crucified also for us under Pontius Pilate, suffered and was buried; and the third day rose again according to the Scriptures.

And ascended into heaven, sits at the right hand of the Father, and shall come again with glory to judge the living and the dead, of whose Kingdom there shall be no end. And (I believe) in the Holy Ghost, the Lord and Giver of life, who proceeds from the Father (and the Son), who together with the Father and the Son is to be adored and glorified, who spoke by the Prophets.  And one holy, catholic, and apostolic Church. We confess (I confess) one baptism for the remission of sins. And we look for (I look for) the resurrection of the dead and the life of the world to come. Amen."

What does the Catholic church teach a person must do in order to be saved?

 

[spiderman1917]

The Catholic Church says that no one is permitted to have any other God's but the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob....The Father, Son, and Holy Ghost.

Catechism:

http://www.scborromeo.org/ccc/p3s2c1a1.htm

"ARTICLE 1
THE FIRST COMMANDMENT

I am the LORD your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage. You shall have no other gods before me. You shall not make for yourself a graven image, or any likeness of anything that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth; you shall not bow down to them or serve them.3

It is written: "You shall worship the Lord your God and him only shall you serve."4

I. "YOU SHALL WORSHIP THE LORD YOUR GOD AND HIM ONLY SHALL YOU SERVE"

2084 God makes himself known by recalling his all-powerful loving, and liberating action in the history of the one he addresses: "I brought you out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage." The first word contains the first commandment of the Law: "You shall fear the LORD your God; you shall serve him. . . . You shall not go after other gods."5 God's first call and just demand is that man accept him and worship him.

2085 The one and true God first reveals his glory to Israel.6 The revelation of the vocation and truth of man is linked to the revelation of God. Man's vocation is to make God manifest by acting in conformity with his creation "in the image and likeness of God":

There will never be another God, Trypho, and there has been no other since the world began . . . than he who made and ordered the universe. We do not think that our God is different from yours. He is the same who brought your fathers out of Egypt "by his powerful hand and his outstretched arm." We do not place our hope in some other god, for there is none, but in the same God as you do: the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob.7

2086 "The first commandment embraces faith, hope, and charity. When we say 'God' we confess a constant, unchangeable being, always the same, faithful and just, without any evil. It follows that we must necessarily accept his words and have complete faith in him and acknowledge his authority. He is almighty, merciful, and infinitely beneficent. Who could not place all hope in him? Who could not love him when contemplating the treasures of goodness and love he has poured out on us? Hence the formula God employs in the Scripture at the beginning and end of his commandments: 'I am the LORD.'"8

Faith

2087 Our moral life has its source in faith in God who reveals his love to us. St. Paul speaks of the "obedience of faith"9 as our first obligation. He shows that "ignorance of God" is the principle and explanation of all moral deviations.10 Our duty toward God is to believe in him and to bear witness to him.

2088 The first commandment requires us to nourish and protect our faith with prudence and vigilance, and to reject everything that is opposed to it. There are various ways of sinning against faith:

* Adoration

2096 Adoration is the first act of the virtue of religion. To adore God is to acknowledge him as God, as the Creator and Savior, the Lord and Master of everything that exists, as infinite and merciful Love. "You shall worship the Lord your God, and him only shall you serve," says Jesus, citing Deuteronomy.13

2097 To adore God is to acknowledge, in respect and absolute submission, the "nothingness of the creature" who would not exist but for God. To adore God is to praise and exalt him and to humble oneself, as Mary did in the Magnificat, confessing with gratitude that he has done great things and holy is his name.14 The worship of the one God sets man free from turning in on himself, from the slavery of sin and the idolatry of the world.

* Prayer

2098 The acts of faith, hope, and charity enjoined by the first commandment are accomplished in prayer. Lifting up the mind toward God is an expression of our adoration of God: prayer of praise and thanksgiving, intercession and petition. Prayer is an indispensable condition for being able to obey God's commandments. "[We] ought always to pray and not lose heart."15

Sacrifice

2099 It is right to offer sacrifice to God as a sign of adoration and gratitude, supplication and communion: "Every action done so as to cling to God in communion of holiness, and thus achieve blessedness, is a true sacrifice."16

2100 Outward sacrifice, to be genuine, must be the expression of spiritual sacrifice: "The sacrifice acceptable to God is a broken spirit. . . . "17 The prophets of the Old Covenant often denounced sacrifices that were not from the heart or not coupled with love of neighbor.18 Jesus recalls the words of the prophet Hosea: "I desire mercy, and not sacrifice."19 The only perfect sacrifice is the one that Christ offered on the cross as a total offering to the Father's love and for our salvation.20 By uniting ourselves with his sacrifice we can make our lives a sacrifice to God.

 

III. "YOU SHALL HAVE NO OTHER GODS BEFORE ME"

 

2110 The first commandment forbids honoring gods other than the one Lord who has revealed himself to his people. It proscribes superstition and irreligion. Superstition in some sense represents a perverse excess of religion; irreligion is the vice contrary by defect to the virtue of religion.

Superstition

2111 Superstition is the deviation of religious feeling and of the practices this feeling imposes. It can even affect the worship we offer the true God, e.g., when one attributes an importance in some way magical to certain practices otherwise lawful or necessary. To attribute the efficacy of prayers or of sacramental signs to their mere external performance, apart from the interior dispositions that they demand, is to fall into superstition.41

Idolatry

2112 The first commandment condemns polytheism. It requires man neither to believe in, nor to venerate, other divinities than the one true God. Scripture constantly recalls this rejection of "idols, [of] silver and gold, the work of men's hands. They have mouths, but do not speak; eyes, but do not see." These empty idols make their worshippers empty: "Those who make them are like them; so are all who trust in them."42 God, however, is the "living God"43 who gives life and intervenes in history.

2113 Idolatry not only refers to false pagan worship. It remains a constant temptation to faith. Idolatry consists in divinizing what is not God. Man commits idolatry whenever he honors and reveres a creature in place of God, whether this be gods or demons (for example, satanism), power, pleasure, race, ancestors, the state, money, etc. Jesus says, "You cannot serve God and mammon."44 Many martyrs died for not adoring "the Beast"45 refusing even to simulate such worship. Idolatry rejects the unique Lordship of God; it is therefore incompatible with communion with God.46

2114 Human life finds its unity in the adoration of the one God. The commandment to worship the Lord alone integrates man and saves him from an endless disintegration. Idolatry is a perversion of man's innate religious sense. An idolater is someone who "transfers his indestructible notion of God to anything other than God."47

 

THe Catholic Church Forbids Magic:

Divination and magic

2115 God can reveal the future to his prophets or to other saints. Still, a sound Christian attitude consists in putting oneself confidently into the hands of Providence for whatever concerns the future, and giving up all unhealthy curiosity about it. Improvidence, however, can constitute a lack of responsibility.

2116 All forms of divination are to be rejected: recourse to Satan or demons, conjuring up the dead or other practices falsely supposed to "unveil" the future.48 Consulting horoscopes, astrology, palm reading, interpretation of omens and lots, the phenomena of clairvoyance, and recourse to mediums all conceal a desire for power over time, history, and, in the last analysis, other human beings, as well as a wish to conciliate hidden powers. They contradict the honor, respect, and loving fear that we owe to God alone.

2117 All practices of magic or sorcery, by which one attempts to tame occult powers, so as to place them at one's service and have a supernatural power over others - even if this were for the sake of restoring their health - are gravely contrary to the virtue of religion. These practices are even more to be condemned when accompanied by the intention of harming someone, or when they have recourse to the intervention of demons. Wearing charms is also reprehensible. Spiritism often implies divination or magical practices; the Church for her part warns the faithful against it. Recourse to so-called traditional cures does not justify either the invocation of evil powers or the exploitation of another's credulity.

 

* IV. "YOU SHALL NOT MAKE FOR YOURSELF A GRAVEN IMAGE . . .">

2129 The divine injunction included the prohibition of every representation of God by the hand of man. Deuteronomy explains: "Since you saw no form on the day that the Lord spoke to you at Horeb out of the midst of the fire, beware lest you act corruptly by making a graven image for yourselves, in the form of any figure. . . . "66 It is the absolutely transcendent God who revealed himself to Israel. "He is the all," but at the same time "he is greater than all his works."67 He is "the author of beauty."68

2130 Nevertheless, already in the Old Testament, God ordained or permitted the making of images that pointed symbolically toward salvation by the incarnate Word: so it was with the bronze serpent, the ark of the covenant, and the cherubim.69

2131 Basing itself on the mystery of the incarnate Word, the seventh ecumenical council at Nicaea (787) justified against the iconoclasts the veneration of icons - of Christ, but also of the Mother of God, the angels, and all the saints. By becoming incarnate, the Son of God introduced a new "economy" of images.

2132 The Christian veneration of images is not contrary to the first commandment which proscribes idols. Indeed, "the honor rendered to an image passes to its prototype," and "whoever venerates an image venerates the person portrayed in it."70 The honor paid to sacred images is a "respectful veneration," not the adoration due to God alone:

Religious worship is not directed to images in themselves, considered as mere things, but under their distinctive aspect as images leading us on to God incarnate. The movement toward the image does not terminate in it as image, but tends toward that whose image it is.71""

(Just so you know.  I will defend Catholicism only because I want unity amongst Christians who think Catholics are Satan worshippers, as some people here think that.  If you don't think the Catholic Church is the best fit for you or you disagree with the Church, that is understandable, so do I disagree on some things.  This isn't about trying to convert anyone, but is about trying to get people to understand that Catholics are Christians too, and the Church forbids magic, the occult, and Idolatry (as I've just proven). 

What is most important is that you love God with all your heart, mind, and soul and love your neighbor as yourself.  You don't need any sacraments to have a personal relationship with Jesus.  A personal relationship with Jesus and being born again is more important than denomination.)

[spiderman1917]

17 minutes ago, algots said:

The demons believe this, too.

Matthew 8:28-29 King James Version (KJV)

²⁸ And when he was come to the other side into the country of the Gergesenes, there met him two possessed with devils, coming out of the tombs, exceeding fierce, so that no man might pass by that way.

²⁹ And, behold, they cried out, saying, What have we to do with thee, Jesus, thou Son of God? art thou come hither to torment us before the time?

Does the Devil teach that we must love Jesus with all our heart, soul, and mind?? Does the Devil teach that we should put Jesus Christ first place in our lives?  That is what the Church teaches.  There is a book called the Catechism which is everything the Church teaches combined into one volume.  You might try reading it someday before claiming you know what the Church teaches

The Catholic Church teaches that we shouldn't be proud, lust, covet, envy, dont commit sloth, dont blaspheme or overeat, feed the hungry, clothe those in need of clothes, put God first in your life, don't commit Idolatry, forgive people that you be forgiven.

Would the Devil teach that?