other one Posted April 28, 2016 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 29 Topic Count: 598 Topics Per Day: 0.08 Content Count: 56,162 Content Per Day: 7.56 Reputation: 27,884 Days Won: 271 Joined: 12/29/2003 Status: Offline Share Posted April 28, 2016 I am only saying that it is not our place to say....... at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spiderman1917 Posted April 28, 2016 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 11 Topic Count: 117 Topics Per Day: 0.04 Content Count: 1,028 Content Per Day: 0.34 Reputation: 810 Days Won: 2 Joined: 02/24/2016 Status: Offline Author Share Posted April 28, 2016 6 minutes ago, other one said: I am only saying that it is not our place to say....... at all. And I'm very delighted to hear you say that because there are a lot of Christians who write off all of those who did not convert to Christianity in this life as being in Hell forever Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hmbld Posted April 28, 2016 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 4 Topic Count: 48 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 2,491 Content Per Day: 0.54 Reputation: 1,457 Days Won: 1 Joined: 10/23/2011 Status: Offline Birthday: 02/02/1971 Share Posted April 28, 2016 3 minutes ago, spiderman1917 said: And I'm very delighted to hear you say that because there are a lot of Christians who write off all of those who did not convert to Christianity in this life as being in Hell forever I agree with oo, it seems all too common to find Christians commenting on other people. Jesus said He is the way, so we can point to Him and leave the judging to God. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spiderman1917 Posted April 28, 2016 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 11 Topic Count: 117 Topics Per Day: 0.04 Content Count: 1,028 Content Per Day: 0.34 Reputation: 810 Days Won: 2 Joined: 02/24/2016 Status: Offline Author Share Posted April 28, 2016 3 minutes ago, hmbld said: I agree with oo, it seems all too common to find Christians commenting on other people. Jesus said He is the way, so we can point to Him and leave the judging to God. I try to tell people that and they keep saying "how can they get to heaven without Jesus how can they get to heaven without Jesus?" Nobody gets to heaven without Jesus and that isn't the argument. The point being made is that just because somebody did not show any signs of conversion to Christianity in this life, that doesn't mean they have a guarantee they are in hell. Christians are giving many people the message that their loved ones are in hell. It is a traumatizing turn off for so many. Let God do the judging. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
angels4u Posted April 28, 2016 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 56 Topic Count: 1,664 Topics Per Day: 0.20 Content Count: 19,764 Content Per Day: 2.38 Reputation: 12,164 Days Won: 28 Joined: 08/22/2001 Status: Offline Share Posted April 28, 2016 8 minutes ago, spiderman1917 said: I try to tell people that and they keep saying "how can they get to heaven without Jesus how can they get to heaven without Jesus?" Nobody gets to heaven without Jesus and that isn't the argument. The point being made is that just because somebody did not show any signs of conversion to Christianity in this life, that doesn't mean they have a guarantee they are in hell. Christians are giving many people the message that their loved ones are in hell. It is a traumatizing turn off for so many. Let God do the judging. The point is Spiderman that nobody knows another persons heart and they can still call on Jesus name on their death bed ,you and I are not to judge but if a person does not believe in Jesus and dies then that person will not go to heaven,that is what the Bible is teaching. We don't have to worry about other Christians and what they say ,if you read the Bible you get all the answers you need. Jesus is the Way the Truth and the Life. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Esther4:14 Posted April 28, 2016 Group: Senior Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 11 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 603 Content Per Day: 0.19 Reputation: 628 Days Won: 1 Joined: 08/07/2015 Status: Offline Share Posted April 28, 2016 5 minutes ago, spiderman1917 said: I try to tell people that and they keep saying "how can they get to heaven without Jesus how can they get to heaven without Jesus?" Nobody gets to heaven without Jesus and that isn't the argument. The point being made is that just because somebody did not show any signs of conversion to Christianity in this life, that doesn't mean they have a guarantee they are in hell. Christians are giving many people the message that their loved ones are in hell. It is a traumatizing turn off for so many. Let God do the judging. I agree in letting God do the judging. However, this is a precept that requires perseverance as a Christian. "No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws them, and I will raise them up at the last day," (John 6:44). " but every spirit that does not acknowledge Jesus is not from God. This is the spirit of the antichrist, which you have heard is coming and even now is already in the world," (1 John 4:3). "Anyone who loves their father or mother more than me is not worthy of me; anyone who loves their son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me," (Matthew 10:37). I understand where you are coming from, because it took many years of persevering in my faith to accept these things. Truly, I have come to understand that the difficulty in accepting these precepts came from fear of not being accepted, or outcast in some way because of it. Then, comes the aspect of not knowing how to cope with something I have no control over. I have no control over whether anything accepts Christ or not. I also have no control over whether someone will be sent to Hell. I have spent plenty of time wondering about friends who have died and whether or not they are in Heaven. I have even spent time trying to believe that they were in Heaven whether or not I had anything to go on to lead me to this conclusion because it allowed me to move on from the cycle of fear it was creating to think about these things. In truth, this is a hard teaching. I am not going to pretend that it will easy to return to this teaching in scripture time after time after time. It is not. It just deflates my spirit every time. I do not enjoy it. However, at the end of the day, I always come around to the same realization, which is that I have to be obedient to what it says no matter how it makes my heart grieve to consider this truth. This will take time to understand. In the meantime, it is good to understand that we are to let God do the judging and stay active serving others in Christ. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paradigm Posted April 28, 2016 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 5 Topic Count: 1 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 142 Content Per Day: 0.05 Reputation: 165 Days Won: 0 Joined: 03/26/2016 Status: Offline Share Posted April 28, 2016 That is a good question Spiderman. I think many times people have a knee jerk reaction and respond before thinking things through or searching out an answer. The scriptures below do not put the question to rest, but it is my hope to at least bring some balance to the issue. Hebrews 10:7 Then said I, Lo, I come (in the volume of the book it is written of me,) to do thy will, O God. John 5:39 Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me. John 5:46-47 For had ye believed Moses, ye would have believed me; for he wrote of me. 47 But if ye believe not his writings, how shall ye believe my words? Galatians 3:8 And the scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the heathen through faith, preached before the gospel unto Abraham, saying, In thee shall all nations be blessed. Hebrews 4:1-2 Let us therefore fear, lest, a promise being left us of entering into his rest, any of you should seem to come short of it. 2 For unto us was the gospel preached, as well as unto them: but the word preached did not profit them, not being mixed with faith in them that heard it. Hebrews 11:24-26 By faith Moses, when he was come to years, refused to be called the son of Pharaoh's daughter; 25 Choosing rather to suffer affliction with the people of God, than to enjoy the pleasures of sin for a season;26 Esteeming the reproach of Christ greater riches than the treasures in Egypt: for he had respect unto the recompence of the reward. 1 Peter 1:10-11 Of which salvation the prophets have enquired and searched diligently, who prophesied of the grace that should come unto you: 11 Searching what, or what manner of time the Spirit of Christ which was in them did signify, when it testified beforehand the sufferings of Christ, and the glory that should follow. 1 Corinthians 10:1-9 Moreover, brethren, I would not that ye should be ignorant, how that all our fathers were under the cloud, and all passed through the sea; 2 And were all baptized unto Moses in the cloud and in the sea; 3 And did all eat the same spiritual meat; 4 And did all drink the same spiritual drink: for they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them: and that Rock was Christ. 5 But with many of them God was not well pleased: for they were overthrown in the wilderness. 6 Now these things were our examples, to the intent we should not lust after evil things, as they also lusted. 7 Neither be ye idolaters, as were some of them; as it is written, The people sat down to eat and drink, and rose up to play. 8 Neither let us commit fornication, as some of them committed, and fell in one day three and twenty thousand. 9 Neither let us tempt Christ, as some of them also tempted, and were destroyed of serpents. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spiderman1917 Posted April 28, 2016 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 11 Topic Count: 117 Topics Per Day: 0.04 Content Count: 1,028 Content Per Day: 0.34 Reputation: 810 Days Won: 2 Joined: 02/24/2016 Status: Offline Author Share Posted April 28, 2016 24 minutes ago, angels4u said: The point is Spiderman that nobody knows another persons heart and they can still call on Jesus name on their death bed ,you and I are not to judge but if a person does not believe in Jesus and dies then that person will not go to heaven,that is what the Bible is teaching. We don't have to worry about other Christians and what they say ,if you read the Bible you get all the answers you need. Jesus is the Way the Truth and the Life. So let's say a non-Christian flatlines without having ever accepted Jesus. To the outside world it looks like All Is Lost. Since the soul is still alive at that moment, is it possible for God to communicate the truth to the soul and give that soul the opportunity to accept him and repent and be transformed and made fit for heaven? Not that we should count on that, but should we limit God either in his love for those who are simply unaware of the truth, and his ability to reveal the truth to them , even if to the outside world it seems all is lost? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hmbld Posted April 28, 2016 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 4 Topic Count: 48 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 2,491 Content Per Day: 0.54 Reputation: 1,457 Days Won: 1 Joined: 10/23/2011 Status: Offline Birthday: 02/02/1971 Share Posted April 28, 2016 7 minutes ago, spiderman1917 said: So let's say a non-Christian flatlines without having ever accepted Jesus. To the outside world it looks like All Is Lost. Since the soul is still alive at that moment, is it possible for God to communicate the truth to the soul and give that soul the opportunity to accept him and repent and be transformed and made fit for heaven? Not that we should count on that, but should we limit God either in his love for those who are simply unaware of the truth, and his ability to reveal the truth to them , even if we think all this lost? Nicely said Spiderman! Amen, always speak life and hope, and point to Jesus! God bless, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paradigm Posted April 28, 2016 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 5 Topic Count: 1 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 142 Content Per Day: 0.05 Reputation: 165 Days Won: 0 Joined: 03/26/2016 Status: Offline Share Posted April 28, 2016 A few more to consider: Exodus 31:3 And I have filled him with the spirit of God, in wisdom, and in understanding, and in knowledge, and in all manner of workmanship, Exodus 35:31 And he hath filled him with the spirit of God, in wisdom, in understanding, and in knowledge, and in all manner of workmanship; Below the word "gods" is translated in the English as singular in almost all places. Daniel 4:8 But at the last Daniel came in before me, whose name was Belteshazzar, according to the name of my God, and in whom is the spirit of the holy gods: and before him I told the dream, saying, Daniel 4:9 O Belteshazzar, master of the magicians, because I know that the spirit of the holy gods is in thee, and no secret troubleth thee, tell me the visions of my dream that I have seen, and the interpretation thereof. Daniel 4:18 This dream I king Nebuchadnezzar have seen. Now thou, O Belteshazzar, declare the interpretation thereof, forasmuch as all the wise men of my kingdom are not able to make known unto me the interpretation: but thou art able; for the spirit of the holy gods is in thee. Daniel 5:11 There is a man in thy kingdom, in whom is the spirit of the holy gods; and in the days of thy father light and understanding and wisdom, like the wisdom of thegods, was found in him; whom the king Nebuchadnezzar thy father, the king, I say, thy father, made master ofthe magicians, astrologers, Chaldeans, and soothsayers; Daniel 5:14 I have even heard of thee, that the spirit of the gods is in thee, and that light and understanding and excellent wisdom is found in thee. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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