ORIGINAL SIN

[kwikphilly]

Blessings Brothers & Sisters,,,,,

     Angels4u started a Thread ,a fun thread where we ask & ask Biblical questions,,,,,I asked the question "Is the Doctrine of ORIGINAL SIN taught in the Bible",I happened to be reading a piece that was about the mis-application of Psalm 51,the common reference to support the teachings of "Original Sin" & 5 things to consider as a rebuttle,,,,,,,as to whether or not it is REALLY a "DOCTRINE"

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(1) Scripture plainly teaches that sin is not inherited. “[T]he son shall not bear the iniquity of the father” (Ezekiel 18:20); every person is responsible for his own conduct (Romans 14:12).

(2) Human sinfulness commences in that period of one’s life that is characterized as youth (Genesis 8:21; Jeremiah 3:25).

(3) A child must reach a certain level of maturity before he is able to choose between evil and good (Isaiah 7:15, 16).

(4) The qualities of little children are set forth as models for those who would aspire to enter the kingdom (Matthew 18:3; 19:14) and for those already in the church (1 Corinthians 14:20). Surely the Lord was not suggesting that we emulate little, totally corrupt sinners!

(5) The human spirit is not inherited from one’s parents; rather, it is given by God (Ecclesiastes 12:7; Hebrews 12:9). Hence, at birth it must be as pure as the source from whence it comes.

Clearly, babies are not born in sin.                                                                   https://www.christiancourier.com/articles/276-original-sin-and-a-misapplied-passage

There is no doubt that because of what occurred that DAY in the Garden,WE all need Jesus ,,,,we are "sinful" by nature etc,,,etc,,,,,, but the question is,,,,,,,Is it a DOCTRINE,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,my answer was "No"& I explained why I believe it is not a doctrine,,,,,,,understand I am not saying that we are not fallible due to original sin & inevitably so but I am saying I do not hold fast to the denominational DOCTRINES teaching we are born in "Original Sin" & will perish into everlasting torment from birth(up to the "age of reasoning"),,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,it is up for debate,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

Please,there will obviously be differing opinions,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,let us respect one another,consider what the other is saying(& why) and simply 'reason TOGETHER",,,,,,if the discussion becomes less than "Worthy" then I will request it be deleted or locked,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,May the Holy Spirit lead us into all TRUTH and flow through each of us,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,no one here is EXCUSIVELY ELECT,CHOSEN,GNOSTIC,,,,,,we are ALL members of the Same Bodt with Christ as our Head

Let us give God Glory in ALL things                                                   With love-in Christ,Kwik

[other one]

i agree Kwik.  If there is a real doctrine, it might be a doctrine of free will.

[angels4u]

6 minutes ago, other one said:

i agree Kwik.  If there is a real doctrine, it might be a doctrine of free will.

agree too,there's no doctrine about it ~~ otherwise we didn't have the free will~~

[kwikphilly]

Ahhhh,"free will",,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,I do think that is the key for it all,our God is just,He would never condemn an infant to hell because of Adams sin,,,,,,,,,,

                                    Praise our Lord,Almighty Loving Father                                With love-in Christ,Kwik

[angels4u]

11 minutes ago, kwikphilly said:

Ahhhh,"free will",,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,I do think that is the key for it all,our God is just,He would never condemn an infant to hell because of Adams sin,,,,,,,,,,

                                    Praise our Lord,Almighty Loving Father                                With love-in Christ,Kwik

 

No Kwik ,God would never send an infant to hell but we are all the born in sin.

There is the age of accountability for children and  for handicapped people who can never understand  Gods Words . 

Good topic!

[enoob57]

Roman 5 clearly gives the teaching of original sin.

[kwikphilly]

Yes nooby,,,,we understand that death is in Adam & life is in Christ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,as clearly taught in Romans Chapter 5 & through out various texts in the new Testament,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,my question is .more on the denominational teachings of the concept of "Original Sin as the first "mortal sin" a person is born with,,,,,,,not to mention any particular sects or organizations,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,many of these also teach,along with this that an infant(or very young child) must be "baptized" or thet are doomed to die in everlasting punishment,,,,,as I mentioned in the OP............

But again,yes,,,,,,the teaching in Romans 5th Chapter tells us that through Adams "sin"....there is death,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

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 Yet death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over those whose sinning was not ylike the transgression of Adam, zwho was a type of athe one who was to come.

15 But the free gift is not like the trespass. For if many died through one man’s trespass, much more have the grace of God and the free gift by the grace of that one man Jesus Christ abounded for bmany.

Is this term "Original Sin" found anywhere as we clearly see "Thou shall not lie"and then you are a liar,no? The term refers to the teachings such as found in "catechism" paragraph 389

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389 The doctrine of original sin is, so to speak, the "reverse side" of the Good News that Jesus is the Savior of all men, that all need salvation and that salvation is offered to all through Christ. The Church, which has the mind of Christ,²⁶³ knows very well that we cannot tamper with the revelation of original sin without undermining the mystery of Christ.

 That is what I was hoping to clarify & encourage the Truth in Gods Word for some that may have been taught a different "Doctrine"                                                             With love-in Christ,Kwik

[kwikphilly]

You may find this interesting,,,,,,from "Wikipedia",,,,,just an excerpt

Quote

Many Christians just assume that innocent children go to Heaven when they die. The Roman Catholic Church traditionally taught that unbaptized infants go to a place called Limbo, until they found no scriptural or other justification for this belief. Today Roman Catholics seem to accept (with no small amount of discomfort) that something or other happens.^[2] The Roman Catholic Church itself seems to not know what happens to unbaptized infants, and Popes have detailed at least four different positions supposedly "clarifying" the situation, but in reality generally contradicting each other.^[3]

In many Protestant sects, the belief is that all children below a certain age automatically go to heaven if they die. In Left Behind, for example, all children under age 8 are raptured, regardless of their religious affiliation or the religious bent of the family they were born into. They are considered too young to be able to decide for themselves whether Jesus really is their Lord and Savior or not. The age at which the switch over from "innocent" to "guilty" occurs is known as the "Age of Reason" (no relation to the Thomas Paine monograph). Catholicism has an Age of Reason too (age 7), but in Catholic doctrine its only benefit is that no venial sins committed before reaching the Age of Reason count toward your time in Purgatory -- you'll still be barred from Heaven forever if you die unbaptized. Some fundamentalist or traditionalist Catholics still hold the belief that unbaptized infants go to Hell.

I do NOT believe this "Doctrine" as I said when I gave my personal answer to the question,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,Love,Kwik

[Ezra]

25 minutes ago, enoob57 said:

Roman 5 clearly gives the teaching of original sin.

That is correct, although, rather than speak of "original sin" (which has Roman Catholic connotations) it would be preferable to call it "the sin nature inherited from Adam by all humans".

Do all humans die? Yes

Are the wages of sin death? Yes

Why do all humans die? Romans 5:12-21

ALL SIN AND ALL DIE BECAUSE OF ADAM 12 Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:

SIN WAS IMPUTED AFTER THE LAW WAS ESTABLISHED 13 (For until the law sin was in the world: but sin is not imputed when there is no law.

DEATH PROVED THAT ALL MEN WERE BORN SINNERS 14  Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over them that had not sinned after the similitude of Adam's transgression, who is the figure of him that was to come.

ONE MAN’S SIN AFFECTED ALL MEN 15 But not as the offence, so also is the free gift. For if through the offence of one many be dead, much more the grace of God, and the gift by grace, which is by one man, Jesus Christ, hath abounded unto many.

ADAM’S SIN BRINGS JUDGMENT AND CONDEMNATION TO ALL 16 And not as it was by one that sinned, so is the gift: for the judgment was by one to condemnation, but the free gift is of many offences unto justification.

DEATH “REIGNS” BECAUSE OF ADAM 17 For if by one man's offence death reigned by one; much more they which receive abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness shall reign in life by one, Jesus Christ.)

ADAM’S SIN BRINGS JUDGMENT AND CONDEMNATION TO ALL 18 Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift cameupon all men unto justification of life.

ADAM’S DISOBEDIENCE MADE ALL MEN SINNERS 19 For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.

THE LAW MADE SINNERS CULPABLE 20 Moreover the law entered, that the offence might abound. But where sin abounded, grace did much more abound:

SIN “REIGNED” THROUGH DEATH 21 That as sin hath reigned unto death, even so might grace reign through righteousness unto eternal life by Jesus Christ our Lord.

[kwikphilly]

That is correct Ezra,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,that is pretty much the sum of it,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

I was really hoping to get some opposition that have been taught(par 389) to understand that 'babies will not perish or go to "limbo",,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,I do believe that because we have so many readers,someone was Blessed by this Thread today!!!!!     Glory to God!                                                      Love,Kwik