ORIGINAL SIN

[enoob57]

10 minutes ago, Ezra said:

That is correct, although, rather than speak of "original sin" (which has Roman Catholic connotations) it would be preferable to call it "the sin nature inherited from Adam by all humans".

Do all humans die? Yes

Are the wages of sin death? Yes

Why do all humans die? Romans 5:12-21

ALL SIN AND ALL DIE BECAUSE OF ADAM 12 Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:

SIN WAS IMPUTED AFTER THE LAW WAS ESTABLISHED 13 (For until the law sin was in the world: but sin is not imputed when there is no law.

DEATH PROVED THAT ALL MEN WERE BORN SINNERS 14  Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over them that had not sinned after the similitude of Adam's transgression, who is the figure of him that was to come.

ONE MAN’S SIN AFFECTED ALL MEN 15 But not as the offence, so also is the free gift. For if through the offence of one many be dead, much more the grace of God, and the gift by grace, which is by one man, Jesus Christ, hath abounded unto many.

ADAM’S SIN BRINGS JUDGMENT AND CONDEMNATION TO ALL 16 And not as it was by one that sinned, so is the gift: for the judgment was by one to condemnation, but the free gift is of many offences unto justification.

DEATH “REIGNS” BECAUSE OF ADAM 17 For if by one man's offence death reigned by one; much more they which receive abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness shall reign in life by one, Jesus Christ.)

ADAM’S SIN BRINGS JUDGMENT AND CONDEMNATION TO ALL 18 Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift cameupon all men unto justification of life.

ADAM’S DISOBEDIENCE MADE ALL MEN SINNERS 19 For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.

THE LAW MADE SINNERS CULPABLE 20 Moreover the law entered, that the offence might abound. But where sin abounded, grace did much more abound:

SIN “REIGNED” THROUGH DEATH 21 That as sin hath reigned unto death, even so might grace reign through righteousness unto eternal life by Jesus Christ our Lord.

agreed with assessment...

[kwikphilly]

 Love you Steven,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,Amen,me too!

[Ezra]

56 minutes ago, kwikphilly said:

That is correct Ezra,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,that is pretty much the sum of it,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

Kwik,

It is interesting to note that only Adam is held responsible for the disaster he brought upon humanity, even though it all started with Eve (let's not blame the Serpent).

[Willa]

We are all born with a survival instinct.  But as we become a toddler it is expressed as selfishness,  "Mine!"  and rebellion,  "NO!"  These are some of the first words learned.  But they are not just mimicked.  The toddlers shortly learn full well what they mean.  Rebellion was the sin of satan, and of Adam.  

I knew at the age of 4 that God watches us and is pleased with some actions and displeased with others.  I had learned the stealing is wrong.  Older children often tried to get me to do things that I knew were wrong and I would argue with them and refuse to comply.  So I knew right from wrong at a very young age.  I distinctly remember the spankings I got for sassing my mom and what a hard time I gave her, too.  At 4 I also reasoned that it was impossible for Jesus to arise from the dead.  My grandpa couldn't come back from the dead.  So arising from the dead is impossible.  So perhaps the age of reason is different for all of us. But I do believe that the instinct or bent to sin is born in all but the feeble minded.  

It is said that sociopaths can't tell good from evil.  I have dealt with one child who was that way, and it was a mystery.  He was about 9 or 10, and was in counseling at a outpatient mental health facility.

We are told that the husband is sanctified by the believing wife so that the children are sanctified, or set aside for God.  So perhaps the children of believers are sanctified until such time as they make their own decision.  But I am not sure how this would apply to unbelievers and their children.  Many of these are also eventually saved and elect of God.  

Perhaps this in one of the questions we will ask God someday.   

Meanwhile, Roman Catholic doctrines that go beyond Scripture are immediately suspect.  Some, like the Trinity, do agree with Scripture.  Others, like being in "limbo", purgatory, baptism of infants conferring salvation, praying to the dead, and kneeling and praying before statues are certainly refuted by Scripture.  

Qualities such as becoming as a little child means that we should become dependent on God and trust Him as we did our parents who provided for us when we were helpless. 

It is true that the curse of our fathers sin is not visited upon the children of Christians.  Jesus took a curse upon Himself when He died on the cross, so He became a curse for us as well as sin, and removed both.  When they asked Jesus for whose sin the blind man was suffering,  It was not due to his fathers' sins or his sins, but that the work of God could be seen in him..  Jn 9:2-3.  

Note to Ezra.  Eve was deceived but Adam transgressed that word that God had spoken directly to him before Eve was created.  He was held ultimately responsible for his actions, and possibly even for hers.

[Guest]

Original sin is a term primarily used by Catholics. Most non-Catholics prefer the term sin nature, meaning that we’re all born with a predisposition toward sinful behavior. This doesn’t mean we’re in any way accountable for the sins of our fore fathers, and in fact until we’re intellectually mature enough to understand what sin is, God does not hold even our own sins against us.

Most theologians, Catholic and Protestant alike, reject the notion that we’re in some way culpable for the sins of Adam and Eve. We’re only responsible for ourselves. That said, due to our sin nature there’s no one who can resist sinning . As Paul said, “All have sinned and fall short of the glory of God” (Romans 3:23)

To some, the idea of original sin and having a sin nature are the same. They believe all mankind inherited a propensity to sin from our first parents. This is a genetic flaw that prevents humans from living a sin free life and makes salvation for those who seek it wholly dependent upon the Lord’s death and resurrection.

Others take the view that original sin means we share in the guilt for Adam’s sin. This is summarized in the concept of total depravity which holds that because of Adam’s sin all mankind has been enslaved to sin and unable to choose to follow God, which makes it necessary for God to choose some among us to receive the gift of salvation as an act of His grace to prevent all of mankind from being lost.

Paul expressed the concept of an age of accountability by saying he was born with eternal life but later became accountable for his sins and was scheduled for death (Romans 7:9). It was then necessary for him to be born again to regain eternal life. This doesn’t mean he believed we are born innocent, but that before we reach the age of accountability God does not count our sins against us. He taught that once we are born again we revert to our former state and once again are not accountable for our sins (Romans 7:18-20).

In Psalm 51:5 David admitted He was a sinner while still in his mother’s womb.

The Bible doesn’t specify at what age we become accountable, so some groups set an arbitrary date (12-13 for Jews) while others say it’s the point at which a child becomes intellectually mature enough to understand what sin and its consequences are.

[Ezra]

15 hours ago, other one said:

i agree Kwik.  If there is a real doctrine, it might be a doctrine of free will.

Well as you see, there is indeed a doctrine regarding sinful humanity, and the epistle to the Romans has a great deal to say about it. It is connected to free will, but at the same time humans are seen as "dead in their trespasses and sins" before the New Birth.

Calvinism teaches that Total Depravity = Total Inability to respond to the Gospel.  But the Bible teaches that the power of the Gospel and the power of the Holy Spirit are sufficient to bring sinners to the Savior. Calvinism teaches that the New Birth occurs before a sinner exercises saving faith (which is given as a gift to the elect). This is the reversal of what the Bible teaches.

Catholicism teaches that baptizing infants produces the New Birth and frees them from the condemnation of Original Sin:

"Born with a fallen human nature and tainted by original sin, children also have need of the new birth in Baptism to be freed from the power of darkness and brought into the realm of the freedom of the children of God, to which all men are called...".

[Guest]

14 hours ago, enoob57 said:

Roman 5 clearly gives the teaching of original sin.

 

I think Romans seven speaks to original sin the clearest. 

Rom 7:14   For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin.
15  For that which I do I allow not: for what I would, that do I not; but what I hate, that do I. {allow: Gr. know }
16  If then I do that which I would not, I consent unto the law that it is good.
17  Now then it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.
18  For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not.
19  For the good that I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I do.
20  Now if I do that I would not, it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.
21  I find then a law, that, when I would do good, evil is present with me.
22  For I delight in the law of God after the inward man:
23  But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members.
24  O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death?

 

[kwikphilly]

I must say,,,,,this Thread has turned out to be far more than even I could have hoped for,,,,,,all Glory to God!!! The edification & confirmations found here will have certainly uplifted ,encouraged & filled many folks with Gods Peace,Love,Comfort & Joy,,,,,,,,it is truly a Blessing ,a privilege & an honor to call each of you "Brother & Sister:",,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,He,the Holy Spirit has truly Filled this Place,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,     Praise Jesus!                                                   With love-in Christ,Kwik

BTW,Ezra,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

Quote

Kwik,

It is interesting to note that only Adam is held responsible for the disaster he brought upon humanity, even though it all started with Eve (let's not blame the Serpent).

I've always thought about that,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,very interesting & TELLING

[Guest]

16 hours ago, Ezra said:

Well as you see, there is indeed a doctrine regarding sinful humanity, and the epistle to the Romans has a great deal to say about it. It is connected to free will, but at the same time humans are seen as "dead in their trespasses and sins" before the New Birth.

Calvinism teaches that Total Depravity = Total Inability to respond to the Gospel.  But the Bible teaches that the power of the Gospel and the power of the Holy Spirit are sufficient to bring sinners to the Savior. Calvinism teaches that the New Birth occurs before a sinner exercises saving faith (which is given as a gift to the elect). This is the reversal of what the Bible teaches.

Catholicism teaches that baptizing infants produces the New Birth and frees them from the condemnation of Original Sin:

"Born with a fallen human nature and tainted by original sin, children also have need of the new birth in Baptism to be freed from the power of darkness and brought into the realm of the freedom of the children of God, to which all men are called...".

I do not think Catholics see it as a condemnation. Original sin is distinct from actual sin, which an infant is incapable of committing. As the following quote expresses the two ideas.

"Since the New Testament era, the Catholic Church has always understood baptism differently, teaching that it is a sacrament which accomplishes several things, the first of which is the remission of sin, both original sin and actual sin—only original sin in the case of infants and young children, since they are incapable of actual sin; and both original and actual sin in the case of older persons." 

Also, they see it akin to circumcision of Infants vs the proselyte which became circumcisied.

"Furthermore,, Paul notes that baptism has replaced circumcision (Col. 2:11–12). In that passage, he refers to baptism as "the circumcision of Christ" and "the circumcision made without hands."

"This comparison between who could receive baptism and circumcision is an appropriate one. In the Old Testament, if a man wanted to become a Jew, he had to believe in the God of Israel and be circumcised. In the New Testament, if one wants to become a Christian, one must believe in God and Jesus and be baptized. In the Old Testament, those born into Jewish households could be circumcised in anticipation of the Jewish faith in which they would be raised. Thus in the New Testament,if one wants to become a Christian, one must believe in God and Jesus and be baptized. In the Old Testament, those born into Jewish households could be circumcised in anticipation of the Jewish faith in which they would be raised. Thus in the New Testament, those born in Christian households can be baptized in anticipation of the Christian faith in which they will be raised. The pattern is the same: If one is an adult, one must have faith before receiving the rite of membership; if one is a child too young to have faith, one may be given the rite of membership in the knowledge that one will be raised in the faith. This is the basis of Paul’s reference to baptism as "the circumcision of Christ"—that is, the Christian equivalent of circumcision." 

 

[enoob57]

19 hours ago, Joline said:

 

I think Romans seven speaks to original sin the clearest. 

Rom 7:14   For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin.
15  For that which I do I allow not: for what I would, that do I not; but what I hate, that do I. {allow: Gr. know }
16  If then I do that which I would not, I consent unto the law that it is good.
17  Now then it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.
18  For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not.
19  For the good that I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I do.
20  Now if I do that I would not, it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.
21  I find then a law, that, when I would do good, evil is present with me.
22  For I delight in the law of God after the inward man:
23  But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members.
24  O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death?

 

This speaks of the personal battle within of sin where as doctrine of original sin is that all people became sin in Adams seed....