When Nations turn against Israel

[n2thelight]

Matthew 10:6 "But go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel."

Now does this say "go to the Jews", or "Go to Judah"? No. It says "Go to the lost sheep of the House of Israel". The sons of Judah know where they are, and who they are; there is nothing lost about them. In fact, when these Jews came to Jesus in their self-righteous attitude, they came to trick Him up, because of this He would answer their questions in parables to keep the kingdom message a mystery from them. Jesus didn't even imply that the disciples should go to the House of Judah.

If you are lost, it means that that person doesn't know who they are. They are not in Jerusalem anymore, but gone to another area completely, and lost their identity to themselves. As a Christian, it should be your priority to learn who these lost "House of Israel" are, or you will not be able to rightly divide the Word of truth. To understand the parables that Jesus Christ taught you need to understand the parable of the sower concerning the children of the good and the bad; which is the prime root to the "key of David". 

This is a very simple message, but it is a total mystery to much of the church world today, and they attach the Jews, good and bad, as the lost sheep of the House of Israel. God is the same yesterday, today and forever, and that message continues right to today. So how do you prepare yourself to go out and plant the seed of the word of God, when the simplest parts of God's mystery are over looked?

[OldCoot]

On 7/20/2018 at 3:17 AM, n2thelight said:

Only Judah returned to form that state of Israel two baskets came,the good Judah and the bad,those that call themselves Jew's but are not....

I assume that you are referring to Revelation 2:9 and Revelation 3:9.   If so, those passages could also be speaking to those who embrace a Replacement Theology, that the Church has replaced Israel.

What seems totally amazing is how very few people take into consideration the numerous accounts in 2 Chronicles where many of the northern tribes moved south and joined themselves with the southern tribes.  Including one time 100 years after the northern kingdom had fallen to the Assyrians.  And how when Ezra returned from the Babylonian Exile with his group, he called them Jews 9 times and Israel 40 times.  Likewise, Nehemiah called his group that he brought back Jews 11 times and Israel 22 times.  "Jew" and "Israelite" had become associative terms for all the Hebrews.  And from archeological findings, King Sargon only exiled about 28,000, give or take, of the northern tribes when the Assyrians captured the northern kingdom.

The tribal identities became somewhat blurred because of the movement of northern tribes to the south to join with the southern kingdom, but not lost.  That is primarily because the various tribes were allocated sections of land when they first entered the land with Joshua. With those land divisions no longer in place, the tribes coalesced, but I am also convinced that YHVH knows who is who even at this stage of the game.

By "lost sheep" the context is those of Israel that are lost spiritually, not earthly.  The disciples were to present the message of the fulfillment of the promised Messiah, and in keeping with the directive... to the Jew  (Israel) first then the gentiles (nations).  In Matthew 10, Yeshua speaks of the cities of Israel, so the idea of Israel as a specific land mass as it had previously been is in view.  Also in Matthew 15, He says he was only sent to the lost sheep of Israel.  So then does that mean the Judaeans, Benjamites, Levites, etc were not to know or learn of Messiah?  Of course not.  Messiah Himself was of the tribe of Judah.

Peter in both Acts 2 and Acts 3 addresses those he is talking to as "men of Israel".  Again, Jew and Israel had become associative terms.

The northern tribes were never "lost" in a physical, earthly sense.  Else 2 Chronicles, Ezra, and Nehemiah were all false in their assertions.  Even 4 tribes are specifically referenced in the NT.  So there is no way that 10 were "lost".  

Edited July 23, 2018 by OldCoot

[n2thelight]

22 hours ago, OldCoot said:

I assume that you are referring to Revelation 2:9 and Revelation 3:9.   If so, those passages could also be speaking to those who embrace a Replacement Theology, that the Church has replaced Israel.

Not as He was directly talking to the pharisees,who claimed to be Jew's

John 8:44 "Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth because there is no truth in him, When he spaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it."

22 hours ago, OldCoot said:

What seems totally amazing is how very few people take into consideration the numerous accounts in 2 Chronicles where many of the northern tribes moved south and joined themselves with the southern tribes.  Including one time 100 years after the northern kingdom had fallen to the Assyrians.  And how when Ezra returned from the Babylonian Exile with his group, he called them Jews 9 times and Israel 40 times.  Likewise, Nehemiah called his group that he brought back Jews 11 times and Israel 22 times.  "Jew" and "Israelite" had become associative terms for all the Hebrews.  And from archeological findings, King Sargon only exiled about 28,000, give or take, of the northern tribes when the Assyrians captured the northern kingdom.

Won't deny that many came back,but not all.Scripture keeps them separated 

Genesis 35:11 "And God said unto him, "I am God Almighty: be fruitful and multiply; a nation and a company of nations shall be of thee, and kings shall come out of thy loins;"

Where are these nations?America is the most blessed nation in history,you think that was by accident?

22 hours ago, OldCoot said:

The northern tribes were never "lost" in a physical, earthly sense.  Else 2 Chronicles, Ezra, and Nehemiah were all false in their assertions.  Even 4 tribes are specifically referenced in the NT.  So there is no way that 10 were "lost".  

So where are they?Gotta be somewhere,for as scripture states,they will not be joined back until the return of Christ.

Glad you brought of Ezra,did you read how they(the house of God)was infiltrated ?

[Laura W]

I tried to explain once to someone of the amil persuasion that if ones theology is wrong it will lead them to mistreat Israel and open them self up to a curse. Did not go over well.

so most wrong headed notions are because they do not interpret scripture in its ‘clearest’ sense.

great topic

[Salty]

Well, obviously, our U.S. President now (Trump) is pro-Israel, and the Ezekiel 38 chapter reveals the nations that will come upon Israel on the last day of this world. None of the western countries are part of it.

 

[Retrobyter]

8 hours ago, Salty said:

Well, obviously, our U.S. President now (Trump) is pro-Israel, and the Ezekiel 38 chapter reveals the nations that will come upon Israel on the last day of this world. None of the western countries are part of it...

YET!

Shabbat shalom, Salty.

We always (and rightly so) suspect that the Lord Yeshua` could come at any time, and consequently what most call the "tribulation" will soon begin, but to be honest completely, NONE of us know when He will come again, right?

So, what if, in a hundred years or so, the Lord has still not returned and we as a nation have turned almost completely to the left. We COULD become a part of those "nations that will come upon Israel on the last day of this world."

Scary, right? Don't want to think about it, right? BUT, we don't know what tomorrow may bring. The West may be absorbed into some other nation or empire we don't know, yet. Nobody in the 1500s, for instance, even KNEW that there would be a "United States of America!" Just something to think about (and thank God for).

Edited August 18, 2018 by Retrobyter
to fix a misspelling

[Salty]

2 minutes ago, Retrobyter said:

YET!

Shabbat shalom, Salty.

We always (and rightly so) suspect that the Lord Yeshua` could come at any time, and consequently what most call the "tribulation" will soon begin, but to be honest completely, NONE of us know when He will come again, right?

So, what if, in a hundred years or so, the Lord has still not returned and we as a nation have turned almost completely to the left. We COULD become a part of those "nations that will come uon Israel on the last day of this world."

Scary, right? Don't want to think about it, right? BUT, we don't know what tomorrow may bring. The West may be absorbed into some other nation or empire we don't know, yet. Nobody in the 1500s, for instance, even KNEW that there would be a "United States of America!" Just something to think about (and thank God for).

That 'what if' type scenario simply isn't written in His Word though, because we are given quite a bit of detail as to how the end of this world will play out.

Jerusalem will be in a fallen state when the pseudo-Christ shows up there working great signs and wonders as written. There will be another temple built with sacrifices started up again in Jerusalem, as Revelation 11:1-2 and Daniel 8, 9, 11, & 12 point to that, along with what Jesus warned in His Olivet discourse about the AOD in Jerusalem. That will be the time of the fake "Peace and safety" Apostle Paul spoke of, and in Daniel 11 with the vile person coming in peaceably.

Worship of a false Christ that will do miracles like our Lord Jesus will fool the majority of the world into thinking he is God. But when he kills God's two witnesses in Jerusalem, that is when many will wake up as to who that one really is. Because the real battle damage against Satan at the end will be the Testimony by Christ's elect, that is when anger is going to be stirred up in the devil's face, and he will seek to destroy God's people off the earth once and for all. That will include the western Christian nations too, because the merchants of Tarshish in Ezekiel 38 that ask the spoiler if he has come to take a spoil, points to the old areas of Spain, Portugal, and Britain, which were ancient trade sources by Tyre for various metal ores.

And who is at the top of the list in Ezekiel 38 which its allies are nations like:  Libya, Persia (Iran-Iraq), Gomer (likely old Soviet satellites), Ethiopia (Sudan actually, since old Ethiopia used to include all the land south of Egypt), and Togarmah (old lands where Turkey is today); All those are allied with Russia. It's the radical Islamic nations that have been allied with Russia, with Russia sending them military support.

The only ally there of Ezek.38 not yet made today is Turkey, but it's already showing signs of leaving NATO and allying with Russia. So it is a sign to watch.

The Communist nations like Russia & Red China, together coming against the western Christian nations is what Ezekiel 38 & 39 is really pointing to. The lands of unwalled villages (open country) of a people that dwell safely without walls and gates are the western Christian nations.

 

 

[Retrobyter]

9 minutes ago, Salty said:

That 'what if' type scenario simply isn't written in His Word though, because we are given quite a bit of detail as to how the end of this world will play out.

Jerusalem will be in a fallen state when the pseudo-Christ shows up there working great signs and wonders as written. There will be another temple built with sacrifices started up again in Jerusalem, as Revelation 11:1-2 and Daniel 8, 9, 11, & 12 point to that, along with what Jesus warned in His Olivet discourse about the AOD in Jerusalem. That will be the time of the fake "Peace and safety" Apostle Paul spoke of, and in Daniel 11 with the vile person coming in peaceably.

Worship of a false Christ that will do miracles like our Lord Jesus will fool the majority of the world into thinking he is God. But when he kills God's two witnesses in Jerusalem, that is when many will wake up as to who that one really is. Because the real battle damage against Satan at the end will be the Testimony by Christ's elect, that is when anger is going to be stirred up in the devil's face, and he will seek to destroy God's people off the earth once and for all. That will include the western Christian nations too, because the merchants of Tarshish in Ezekiel 38 that ask the spoiler if he has come to take a spoil, points to the old areas of Spain, Portugal, and Britain, which were ancient trade sources by Tyre for various metal ores.

And who is at the top of the list in Ezekiel 38 which its allies are nations like:  Libya, Persia (Iran-Iraq), Gomer (likely old Soviet satellites), Ethiopia (Sudan actually, since old Ethiopia used to include all the land south of Egypt), and Togarmah (old lands where Turkey is today); All those are allied with Russia. It's the radical Islamic nations that have been allied with Russia, with Russia sending them military support.

The only ally there of Ezek.38 not yet made today is Turkey, but it's already showing signs of leaving NATO and allying with Russia. So it is a sign to watch.

The Communist nations like Russia & Red China, together coming against the western Christian nations is what Ezekiel 38 & 39 is really pointing to. The lands of unwalled villages (open country) of a people that dwell safely without walls and gates are the western Christian nations.

Shabbat shalom, Salty.

Perhaps, but don't read too much into a passage of Scripture. Ezekiel 38 and 39 are VERY specific regarding the LAND of Israel, not the whole "earth!"

Ezekiel 38:7-16 (KJV)

7 Be thou prepared, and prepare for thyself, thou, and all thy company that are assembled unto thee, and be thou a guard unto them. 8 After many days thou shalt be visited: in the latter years thou shalt come into the land that is brought back from the sword, and is gathered out of many people, against the mountains of Israel, which have been always waste: but it is brought forth out of the nations, and they shall dwell safely all of them. 9 Thou shalt ascend and come like a storm, thou shalt be like a cloud to cover the land, thou, and all thy bands, and many people with thee.

10 Thus saith the Lord GOD; It shall also come to pass, that at the same time shall things come into thy mind, and thou shalt think an evil thought: 11 And thou shalt say, I will go up to the land of unwalled villages; I will go to them that are at rest, that dwell safely, all of them dwelling without walls, and having neither bars nor gates, 12 To take a spoil, and to take a prey; to turn thine hand upon the desolate places that are now inhabited, and upon the people that are gathered out of the nations, which have gotten cattle and goods, that dwell in the midst of the land. 13 Sheba, and Dedan, and the merchants of Tarshish, with all the young lions thereof, shall say unto thee, Art thou come to take a spoil? hast thou gathered thy company to take a prey? to carry away silver and gold, to take away cattle and goods, to take a great spoil?

14 Therefore, son of man, prophesy and say unto Gog, Thus saith the Lord GOD; In that day when my people of Israel dwelleth safely, shalt thou not know it? 15 And thou shalt come from thy place out of the north parts, thou, and many people with thee, all of them riding upon horses, a great company, and a mighty army: 16 And thou shalt come up against my people of Israel, as a cloud to cover the land; it shall be in the latter days, and I will bring thee against my land, that the heathen may know me, when I shall be sanctified in thee, O Gog, before their eyes.

Ever seen the current city of Jerusalem? The OLD City still has walls, but there's no walls around the current, quite modern city of Yerushalayim spread out today.

Furthermore, the whole of the chapter cannot yet be realized because the "mountains of Israel" are currently known as the WEST BANK region, where the foreigner Arabs, calling themselves "Palestinians," still squat!

[Salty]

35 minutes ago, Retrobyter said:

Shabbat shalom, Salty.

Perhaps, but don't read too much into a passage of Scripture. Ezekiel 38 and 39 are VERY specific regarding the LAND of Israel, not the whole "earth!"

Ezekiel 38:7-16 (KJV)

7 Be thou prepared, and prepare for thyself, thou, and all thy company that are assembled unto thee, and be thou a guard unto them. 8 After many days thou shalt be visited: in the latter years thou shalt come into the land that is brought back from the sword, and is gathered out of many people, against the mountains of Israel, which have been always waste: but it is brought forth out of the nations, and they shall dwell safely all of them. 9 Thou shalt ascend and come like a storm, thou shalt be like a cloud to cover the land, thou, and all thy bands, and many people with thee.

10 Thus saith the Lord GOD; It shall also come to pass, that at the same time shall things come into thy mind, and thou shalt think an evil thought: 11 And thou shalt say, I will go up to the land of unwalled villages; I will go to them that are at rest, that dwell safely, all of them dwelling without walls, and having neither bars nor gates, 12 To take a spoil, and to take a prey; to turn thine hand upon the desolate places that are now inhabited, and upon the people that are gathered out of the nations, which have gotten cattle and goods, that dwell in the midst of the land. 13 Sheba, and Dedan, and the merchants of Tarshish, with all the young lions thereof, shall say unto thee, Art thou come to take a spoil? hast thou gathered thy company to take a prey? to carry away silver and gold, to take away cattle and goods, to take a great spoil?

14 Therefore, son of man, prophesy and say unto Gog, Thus saith the Lord GOD; In that day when my people of Israel dwelleth safely, shalt thou not know it? 15 And thou shalt come from thy place out of the north parts, thou, and many people with thee, all of them riding upon horses, a great company, and a mighty army: 16 And thou shalt come up against my people of Israel, as a cloud to cover the land; it shall be in the latter days, and I will bring thee against my land, that the heathen may know me, when I shall be sanctified in thee, O Gog, before their eyes.

Ever seen the current city of Jerusalem? The OLD City still has walls, but there's no walls around the current, quite modern city of Yerushalayim spread out today.

Furthermore, the whole of the chapter cannot yet be realized because the "mountains of Israel" are currently known as the WEST BANK region, where the foreigner Arabs, calling themselves "Palestinians," still squat!

A point you and I will probably never agree on is just who all does God's Word point to as the children of Israel.

I am one who does not disregard the continued existence of the ten lost tribes. They are not lost to God, and if one actually pays attention in their OT Bible study, and then takes a real look at history, they will discover quite a lot of Bible prophecy pointing to the ten tribes of the "house of Israel" in the last days. And that is actually about the majority of Israelites, and they are not even in the state of Israel today.

God made Ezekiel a watchman to the "house of Israel". In Ezekiel's day, the ten tribe "house of Israel" had already been scattered out of the holy land, the "house of Judah" only remaining in the lands of old Israel.

Ezek 39:21-25
21 And I will set My glory among the heathen, and all the heathen shall see My judgment that I have executed, and My hand that I have laid upon them.

22 So the house of Israel shall know that I am the LORD their God from that day and forward.

23 And the heathen shall know that the house of Israel went into captivity for their iniquity: because they trespassed against Me, therefore hid I My face from them, and gave them into the hand of their enemies: so fell they all by the sword.

24 According to their uncleanness and according to their transgressions have I done unto them, and hid My face from them.

25 Therefore thus saith the Lord GOD; Now will I bring again the captivity of Jacob, and have mercy upon the whole house of Israel, and will be jealous for My holy name;
KJV

It was the ten tribes of the northern kingdom of the "house of Israel" which God scattered first and made them lose knowledge of their heritage as part of Israel. That is why God shows at that point 'they' will know who they really are, and even the nations will then understand why they went into captivity. That passage is a repeat big time of Scripture like Hosea, which is prophecy meant for the ten scattered tribes of Israel.

But did God hide His face from the "house of Judah" (i.e., the Jews)? No, He did not. He punished these also for their iniquity, but He caused a remnant of them to return from their Babylon captivity to build the city again and the 2nd temple. And in 1948 He moved their creation as a nation state again in the middle east, which was actually just continued fulfillment of His promise to David and to Jerusalem that He would always leave one tribe in Jerusalem (1 Kings 11).

That Ezekiel 39:21-24 Scripture is pointing especially to the ten tribes of the "house of Israel", except the 25th verse where it says, "the whole house of Israel". Before God split old Israel into two nations, giving ten tribes to Jeroboam of Ephraim, all of Israel was known as the "house of Israel". But not after the split of Israel which God did in Solomon's day (1 Kings 11 forward). Now why would God even bother to mark His meaning of all the tribes of Israel with that "whole house of Israel" distinction? It's because the "house of Israel" phrase BEFORE THE FINAL GATHERING is only about the scattered ten tribes of Israel. The following is still yet to happen:

Ezek 37:16-23
16 Moreover, thou son of man, take thee one stick, and write upon it, For Judah, and for the children of Israel his companions: then take another stick, and write upon it, For Joseph, the stick of Ephraim, and for all the house of Israel his companions:

17 And join them one to another into one stick; and they shall become one in thine hand.

18 And when the children of thy people shall speak unto thee, saying, Wilt thou not shew us what thou meanest by these?

19 Say unto them, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, I will take the stick of Joseph, which is in the hand of Ephraim, and the tribes of Israel his fellows, and will put them with him, even with the stick of Judah, and make them one stick, and they shall be one in mine hand.

20 And the sticks whereon thou writest shall be in thine hand before their eyes.

21 And say unto them, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, I will take the children of Israel from among the heathen, whither they be gone, and will gather them on every side, and bring them into their own land:

22 And I will make them one nation in the land upon the mountains of Israel; and one king shall be king to them all: and they shall be no more two nations, neither shall they be divided into two kingdoms any more at all:

23 Neither shall they defile themselves any more with their idols, nor with their detestable things, nor with any of their transgressions: but I will save them out of all their dwellingplaces, wherein they have sinned, and will cleanse them: so shall they be My people, and I will be their God.
KJV

That of course has yet to happen today. The two sticks are still apart. Lot of Jews try to say that has come to pass with the nation state of Israel in 1948. But they have to throw away that Ezek.37:22 verse about, "and one king shall be king to them all". The nation state of Israel still doesn't have a king sitting upon a throne yet. Moreover, the coming pseudo-Christ is to come first to try and sit upon a throne in today's Jerusalem and proclaim himself as God (2 Thessalonians 2:4).

Edited August 18, 2018 by Salty

[Salty]

On 8/20/2018 at 8:34 AM, Oseas Ramos de Siqueira said:

Rev.7:2-4
2 And I saw another angel ascending from the east, having the seal of the living God: and he cried with a loud voice to the four angels, to whom it was given to hurt the earth and the sea,

3 Saying, Hurt not the earth, neither the sea, nor the trees, till we have sealed the servants of our God in their foreheads.

4 And I heard the number of them which were sealed: and there were sealed an hundred and forty and four thousand of all the tribes (12) of the children of Israel.

Revelation 14:1-3
1 And I looked, and, lo, a Lamb stood on the mount Sion, and with Him an hundred forty and four thousand, having His Father's name written in their foreheads.

2 And I heard a voice from heaven, as the voice of many waters, and as the voice of a great thunder: and I heard the voice of harpers harping with their harps:

3 And they sung as it were a new song before the throne, and before the four beasts, and the elders: and no man could learn that song but the hundred and forty and four thousand, which were redeemed from the earth.

Hallelujaaaaah!

 

Romans 9:6-8 & 20-23-27

6 Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect. For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel:

7 Neither, because they are the seed of Abraham, are they all children: but, In Isaac shall thy seed be called.

8 That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God (John 8:44 & Mattews 23:33-36): but the children of the promise are counted for the seed. (of God)

 

20 Nay but, O man, who art thou that repliest against God? Shall the thing formed say to Him that formed it, Why hast thou made me thus?

21 Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour?

22 What if God, willing to shew his wrath, and to make His power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction:

23 And that He might make known the riches of His glory on the vessels of mercy, which He had afore prepared unto glory,

24 Even us, whom He hath called, not of the Jews only, but also of the Gentiles?

25 As He saith also in Osee, I will call them my people, which were not my people; and her beloved, which was not beloved.

26 And it shall come to pass, that in the place where it was said unto them, Ye are not my people; there shall they be called the children of the living God.

27 Esaias also crieth concerning Israel, Though the number of the children of Israel be as the sand of the sea, a remnant shall be saved: (Yea,144.000 only)

 

2 KINGS 14:27

27 And the Lord said not that he would blot out the name of Israel from under heaven: but he saved them by the hand of Jeroboam the son of Joash.

Psalms 53:v.6

Oh that the salvation of Israel were come out of Zion!

Read the end of Zechariah 12, and what Jesus said to the daughters of Jerusalem that wept for Him in Luke 23. Then compare that to the last part of Romans 11 about Israel in part that God blinded until the fulness of the Gentiles is complete.

God is not going to destroy any soul in the lake of fire that He Himself blinded away from The Gospel. The majority of Jews He blinded so The Gospel would go to the Gentiles. When Jesus returns, the Jew's blindness will be removed, and that Zech.12 and Luke 23 event will happen. They will wish for the hills and mountains to 'fall on us', because of their shame of not accepting Jesus as Messiah. And they will stand in judgment throughout Christ's future thousand years reign (Ezek.44). But is God going to destroy them? Not those of them who turn to Jesus in the Millennium.