When Michael stands up

[WilliamL]

17 hours ago, ghtan said:

...in Rev 12:1....the sun, moon and twelve stars link her directly to Gen 37:9 i.e. to Israel. Is it any wonder then that the latter view is accepted by many? No doubt a common view need not be correct but to overturn one you have to come up with a better view. Your view is unsupported by scripture, let alone better.

So explain to us -- since neither you nor anyone else has, although I have challenged you to do so -- the exact relationship you see with the sun (Jacob), moon (Rachel and/or Leah), and the 12 sons of Israel (stars):

these being, respectively, Jacob clothing the Woman giving birth, his wife being under her feet, and his sons being upon her head. Explain to us how you make sense of all this.

Walk your talk, in other words.

[WilliamL]

14 hours ago, Sister said:

So all in all I believe Satan and his angels were cast out of heaven when Jesus rose from the dead, ....that same day, because it happened straight after the "man child" was taken up to God. 

Rev. 12:10 Then I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, “Now salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of His Christ have come, for the accuser of our brethren, who accused them before our God day and night, has been cast down. 11 “And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb and by the word of their testimony, and they did not love their lives to the death.

Jesus rose 3 days after his blood, "the blood of the Lamb," was shed, during which time the disciples were hiding and confused. There is no way that "they" overcame anybody by the word of their testimony during this period, let alone Satan and all his angelic host.

[Sister]

3 hours ago, WilliamL said:

Rev. 12:10 Then I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, “Now salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of His Christ have come, for the accuser of our brethren, who accused them before our God day and night, has been cast down. 11 “And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb and by the word of their testimony, and they did not love their lives to the death.

Jesus rose 3 days after his blood, "the blood of the Lamb," was shed, during which time the disciples were hiding and confused. There is no way that "they" overcame anybody by the word of their testimony during this period, let alone Satan and all his angelic host.

Hi William

They overcame him (starting with the apostles to all end time believers) by "the blood of the lamb".  His death and resurrection.

Because of what Jesus accomplished, there is even more faith because of his full testimony, life from the grave at the end of it all, and now the holy spirit is given to those who follow in Christ footsteps to know the difference between good and evil by feeding on the scriptures.  It started with the apostles.

To overcome, is to stay loyal to God despite persecution or oppression from the adversary until death, suffering all things for Christ's sake.  There is wisdom in knowing this by using all the tools Christ gave to overcome the wicked one..  This is what is means to overcome, to make it to our end.  To endure all the way, to put everything Christ told us into practice.  This is how we overcome, and how they overcame in the past. 

 

Ephesians 2:18   For through him we both have access by one Spirit unto the Father.

 Ephesians 6:10   Finally, my brethren, be strong in the Lord, and in the power of his might.

  Ephesians 6:11   Put on the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to stand against the wiles of the devil.

  Ephesians 6:12   For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.

  Ephesians 6:13   Wherefore take unto you the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to withstand in the evil day, and having done all, to stand.

  Ephesians 6:14   Stand therefore, having your loins girt about with truth, and having on the breastplate of righteousness;

  Ephesians 6:15   And your feet shod with the preparation of the gospel of peace;

  Ephesians 6:16   Above all, taking the shield of faith, wherewith ye shall be able to quench all the fiery darts of the wicked.

  Ephesians 6:17   And take the helmet of salvation, and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God:

  Ephesians 6:18   Praying always with all prayer and supplication in the Spirit, and watching thereunto with all perseverance and supplication for all saints;
 

 

[Sister]

4 hours ago, other one said:

I see nowhere that he has been sent to earth and has to stay here..

other one

Revelation 12:9   And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.

 

  Revelation 12:12   Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time.

 

Jesus spoke this just before his death.

John 12:31   Now is the judgment of this world: now shall the prince of this world be cast out.

 John 14:30   Hereafter I will not talk much with you: for the prince of this world cometh, and hath nothing in me.

[other one]

1 hour ago, Sister said:

other one

Revelation 12:9   And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.

 

  Revelation 12:12   Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time.

 

Jesus spoke this just before his death.

John 12:31   Now is the judgment of this world: now shall the prince of this world be cast out.

 John 14:30   Hereafter I will not talk much with you: for the prince of this world cometh, and hath nothing in me.

that does not say that they are kicked out of access to the heavens at the resurrection......   the devil and many angels have been coming and going since he was removed from the throne area.

[ghtan]

6 hours ago, WilliamL said:

So explain to us -- since neither you nor anyone else has, although I have challenged you to do so -- the exact relationship you see with the sun (Jacob), moon (Rachel and/or Leah), and the 12 sons of Israel (stars):

these being, respectively, Jacob clothing the Woman giving birth, his wife being under her feet, and his sons being upon her head. Explain to us how you make sense of all this.

Walk your talk, in other words.

Our problem with interpretation is often of our own making. We try to read too much into the text. The woman reminds readers of Israel due to Gen 37:9. Jesus was born a Jew. It is as simple as that. 

[Sister]

1 hour ago, other one said:

that does not say that they are kicked out of access to the heavens at the resurrection......   the devil and many angels have been coming and going since he was removed from the throne area.

other one

That would make heaven contaminated if they are still going back and forth to heaven?  Heaven is what we trust in, Satan cannot be there after he killed Christ.  It's like God inviting us to the city of truth and the chief liar is still there.  It doesn't comprehend.

[other one]

4 minutes ago, Sister said:

other one

That would make heaven contaminated if they are still going back and forth to heaven?  Heaven is what we trust in, Satan cannot be there after he killed Christ.  It's like God inviting us to the city of truth and the chief liar is still there.  It doesn't comprehend.

that may be your theological thought process, but I see no scripture that tells me that.....    and I don't see any of Revelation happening prior to it's writing.

[Sister]

4 hours ago, other one said:

that may be your theological thought process, but I see no scripture that tells me that.....    and I don't see any of Revelation happening prior to it's writing.

Ok.

[ghtan]

10 hours ago, other one said:

that does not say that they are kicked out of access to the heavens at the resurrection......   the devil and many angels have been coming and going since he was removed from the throne area.

Is there scripture that shows the devil in heaven after the resurrection?