Revelation 12 ( 7-11 )

[Sister]

8 hours ago, OakWood said:

That's not the same thing Sister. Satan is at liberty to travel between heaven and Earth but when he is finally kicked out by Michael he will fall to Earth and no longer be allowed to return. That is when he will be at his most deceptive and his most dangerous. I think that this was what the OP was trying to say and I mostly agree with her - except of course the bit where he claims to be Jesus but he will claim to be some sort of Messiah which some fools may take to be Jesus.

Oakwood

Revelation 12:5   And she brought forth a man child, who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron: and her child was caught up unto God, and to his throne.

Revelation 12:6   And the woman fled into the wilderness, where she hath a place prepared of God, that they should feed her there a thousand two hundred and threescore days.

Revelation 12:7   And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,

 

What gives everyone the impression there is an odd 2000 year gap between verse 5 & 7?  How do you put it into the end times?  Where did this come from?

 

 

 Revelation 12:9   And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.

 Revelation 12:10   And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night.

 Revelation 12:11   And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death.
 

When did salvation come?  Was it not at the resurrection of Christ?.....when was the accuser thrown out?  Was it not when salvation came at the resurrection?

 

John 14:18   I will not leave you comfortless: I will come to you.

John 14:19   Yet a little while, and the world seeth me no more; but ye see me: because I live, ye shall live also.

 

John 14:29   And now I have told you before it come to pass, that, when it is come to pass, ye might believe.

John 14:30   Hereafter I will not talk much with you: for the prince of this world cometh, and hath nothing in me.

 

[OakWood]

17 minutes ago, Sister said:

Oakwood

Revelation 12:5   And she brought forth a man child, who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron: and her child was caught up unto God, and to his throne.

Revelation 12:6   And the woman fled into the wilderness, where she hath a place prepared of God, that they should feed her there a thousand two hundred and threescore days.

Revelation 12:7   And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,

 

What gives everyone the impression there is an odd 2000 year gap between verse 5 & 7?  How do you put it into the end times?  Where did this come from?

 

 

 Revelation 12:9   And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.

 Revelation 12:10   And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night.

 Revelation 12:11   And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death.
 

When did salvation come?  Was it not at the resurrection of Christ?.....when was the accuser thrown out?  Was it not when salvation came at the resurrection?

 

John 14:18   I will not leave you comfortless: I will come to you.

John 14:19   Yet a little while, and the world seeth me no more; but ye see me: because I live, ye shall live also.

 

John 14:29   And now I have told you before it come to pass, that, when it is come to pass, ye might believe.

John 14:30   Hereafter I will not talk much with you: for the prince of this world cometh, and hath nothing in me.

 

I didn't realise you were a preterist.

[missmuffet]

1 hour ago, OakWood said:

I didn't realise you were a preterist.

I could tell. They are the opposite of my pretrib view.

[other one]

1 hour ago, Sister said:

Oakwood

Revelation 12:5   And she brought forth a man child, who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron: and her child was caught up unto God, and to his throne.

Revelation 12:6   And the woman fled into the wilderness, where she hath a place prepared of God, that they should feed her there a thousand two hundred and threescore days.

Revelation 12:7   And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,

 

What gives everyone the impression there is an odd 2000 year gap between verse 5 & 7?  How do you put it into the end times?  Where did this come from?

 

 

 Revelation 12:9   And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.

 Revelation 12:10   And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night.

 Revelation 12:11   And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death.
 

When did salvation come?  Was it not at the resurrection of Christ?.....when was the accuser thrown out?  Was it not when salvation came at the resurrection?

 

John 14:18   I will not leave you comfortless: I will come to you.

John 14:19   Yet a little while, and the world seeth me no more; but ye see me: because I live, ye shall live also.

 

John 14:29   And now I have told you before it come to pass, that, when it is come to pass, ye might believe.

John 14:30   Hereafter I will not talk much with you: for the prince of this world cometh, and hath nothing in me.

 

the whole thing is a vision in heaven......   the entire thing is in the stars.

[RustyAngeL]

On 6/9/2016 at 10:04 AM, GodsSecretary said:

Satan is coming with his seven thousand fallen angels pretending to be Jesus and his Saints.  To deceive the whole world into worshipping him, thinking he is Jesus.  All whom do not have the love of the truth will worship Satan.

Maybe I have missed something... you stated that Satan was coming with his "7000" fallen angels, pretending to Jesus and His Saints.  I gust want to know where you got the number 7000.  I think I must have missed something.  I don't remember recalling a total number given.  I'm really asking my sister Kwik about this, because this woman is a true  Bible scholar.  So maybe she can help me out.

[missmuffet]

No there is no number given in the Bible. That is just speculation.

[other one]

the bible speaks of ten thousand, ten thousands and thousands of thousands.......    now if one takes this literally that would be something over a hundred million.....    and if a third of them come to his side, that would be 30 million of them.

[Sister]

8 hours ago, OakWood said:

I didn't realise you were a preterist.

Hi Oakwood

I just see the scriptures how they are stated and try to divide them accordingly to what I've already learnt from the other scriptures.

When the man child was taken up to God and to his throne, this takes me back to Matthew, Mark, Luke and John and many other books who already told me that Jesus was resurrected 3 days after his death.  So this man child is him, Jesus.  As it could be no other.  At the time Rev was written, this had already happened (history).  How can I possibly say that this has not happened yet?

So also knowing from other scriptures, that Jesus ascended to his Father on the morning he rose, and was back later that same day, as he told Mary when she found him;

 John 20:17   Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God.
 

Jesus returned later that evening to meet with his apostles, and they touched his hands, therefore he had already been taken up to his Father and returned all in the one day.  This is the exact day I can see with my understanding that Satan and his angels were thrown out of heaven.  Jesus exercised his authority on that day, and showed Satan he was no longer welcome. 

 

Now, just like you have used good reasoning on your other wonderful thread, I have also used it on this subject.  I am not a "Peterist", because I purposely did not allow myself to be indoctrinated by any teaching, but simply read the bible for myself to see directly what God had to say through the scriptures, and my interpretation is not someone else's, but my own, according to my own understanding.  If I be wrong, don't blame anyone else, but me, for I trusted that Jesus could teach me through his Word alone and give understanding to us just like he promised if we repented and our hearts were searching for truth in his word.

Now, no one has answered why there is an odd two 2000 year gap between Jesus being caught up to God at his resurrection, and Satan being cast out of heaven?  What other scriptures can back this up?  Can anyone provide anything where this teaching came from?  Where's the 2000 year gap?

 

Revelation 12:5   And she brought forth a man child, who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron: and her child was caught up unto God, and to his throne.

Revelation 12:6   And the woman fled into the wilderness, where she hath a place prepared of God, that they should feed her there a thousand two hundred and threescore days.

Revelation 12:7   And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,

 

[OakWood]

2 minutes ago, Sister said:

Hi Oakwood

I just see the scriptures how they are stated and try to divide them accordingly to what I've already learnt from the other scriptures.

When the man child was taken up to God and to his throne, this takes me back to Matthew, Mark, Luke and John and many other books who already told me that Jesus was resurrected 3 days after his death.  So this man child is him, Jesus.  As it could be no other.  At the time Rev was written, this had already happened (history).  How can I possibly say that this has not happened yet?

So also knowing from other scriptures, that Jesus ascended to his Father on the morning he rose, and was back later that same day, as he told Mary when she found him;

 John 20:17   Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God.
 

Jesus returned later that evening to meet with his apostles, and they touched his hands, therefore he had already been taken up to his Father and returned all in the one day.  This is the exact day I can see with my understanding that Satan and his angels were thrown out of heaven.  Jesus exercised his authority on that day, and showed Satan he was no longer welcome. 

 

Now, just like you have used good reasoning on your other wonderful thread, I have also used it on this subject.  I am not a "Peterist", because I purposely did not allow myself to be indoctrinated by any teaching, but simply read the bible for myself to see directly what God had to say through the scriptures, and my interpretation is not someone else's, but my own, according to my own understanding.  If I be wrong, don't blame anyone else, but me, for I trusted that Jesus could teach me through his Word alone and give understanding to us just like he promised if we repented and our hearts were searching for truth in his word.

Now, no one has answered why there is an odd two 2000 year gap between Jesus being caught up to God at his resurrection, and Satan being cast out of heaven?  What other scriptures can back this up?  Can anyone provide anything where this teaching came from?  Where's the 2000 year gap?

 

Revelation 12:5   And she brought forth a man child, who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron: and her child was caught up unto God, and to his throne.

Revelation 12:6   And the woman fled into the wilderness, where she hath a place prepared of God, that they should feed her there a thousand two hundred and threescore days.

Revelation 12:7   And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,

 

The 2000 year gap is the simple fact that Jesus was born roughly 2000 years ago and we have only just reached the End Times now. Are you aware of history at all, or do you think that we are now living in paradise?

 

[Sister]

48 minutes ago, OakWood said:

The 2000 year gap is the simple fact that Jesus was born roughly 2000 years ago and we have only just reached the End Times now. Are you aware of history at all, or do you think that we are now living in paradise?

 

Oakwood

Yes we know Jesus was born roughly 2000 years ago, and I know we are in the end times now.  That still doesn't answer my question.  Why a two thousand year gap between Jesus's resurrection and Satan being thrown out of heaven?  Are there any scriptures to suggest this?

You asked if I am aware of history at all?  I already explained that at the time Revelation was written, Jesus death and resurrection had already happened.  So when the "man child" was taken up to God and his throne, it only makes sense that this verse in Rev 12 is not giving us new knowledge of what was to come, but an account of what already happened - the resurrection of Christ.

 

No we are not living in paradise.  Paradise will be the kingdom during the millennium.  I don't see what this has to do with what we are speaking of?  This is another subject and will take us all over the place.

I just want an answer or a scripture as to why Satan was thrown out of heaven 2000 odd years later after Christ's resurrection and not straight away?  Why 2000 years later?  Where did this come from?