A fence-sitter finally jumps off

[Ezra]

12 hours ago, Diaste said:

He pleased God and did not see death as God took him. This has no correlation with a Pre Trib rapture.

Those who believe on the Lord Jesus Christ please God and reverence His Son. They walk by faith, not by sight.  There's your correlation.

12 hours ago, Diaste said:

Pre Trib suggests an early exit before a difficult time

Enoch was translated before the Flood (a judgement on mankind). The Rapture will be before the Tribulation and Great Tribulation for exactly the same reason -- the Church is not appointed to wrath.

12 hours ago, Diaste said:

why does the scripture omit the future translation before death of millions of people from all over the world? 

Who says that Scripture omits this?  There are many passages that focus on the Resurrection/Rapture.

[Diaste]

1 hour ago, Ezra said:

Those who believe on the Lord Jesus Christ please God and reverence His Son. They walk by faith, not by sight.  There's your correlation.

Enoch was translated before the Flood (a judgement on mankind). The Rapture will be before the Tribulation and Great Tribulation for exactly the same reason -- the Church is not appointed to wrath.

Who says that Scripture omits this?  There are many passages that focus on the Resurrection/Rapture.

But that isn't what Pre Trib says, is it? Pre Trib suggests God will take those believers out of the world to escape the fiery trial. Pre Trib says nothing about being pleasing to God. The whole premise is escape not obedience. If it were about being pleasing in God's sight then I very much doubt escape would be the ideology. There's much more to pleasing God than your suggestions. There is our way of life and testimony that is to set us apart from the world and truly prove our walk with God. If a person or group must please God to be translated, not seeing death then, the Christian church is clearly going into the fiery trial of great tribulation. Just look at the mess that is the church. Filled with false prophets, lies, divorce, idolatry, adultery, fornication, and lust for money, etc., the church is here for the duration, like it or not.

The flood was a judgement, as in the earth was judged evil and fit to be destroyed by the wrath of God. Only 8 souls were kept alive from this great wrath but they certainly went through trials beforehand. There is no mention of Enoch, as is appropriate, because Enoch was not saved from the flood. Enoch was gone for 70 years before Noah was born. Noah began the ark when he was over 500 yrs. old. How was Enoch saved from the flood when he had been gone for over 500 years? Your argument makes little sense and has no bearing on the gathering of the elect.

There are exactly two verses that mention the gathering of the elect, one in Matt and one in Mark, not many. There is not one verse or passage that mentions 'rapture'. Pre Trib can have the rapture; I'm looking toward the gathering of the elect. Pre Trib also makes the egregious error of equating wrath (orge) with great tribulation (thlipsis). The original words carry distinct origins, definitions, spelling and pronunciation from one another and cannot be construed as equivalent. Unless of course if one applies fear or emotion, then I guess any idea could come of it.

I see you cherry picked my quote. That's a misquote. Is that how Christians should behave?

What I said was,

“Pre Trib suggests an early exit before a difficult time; Enoch was taken because he pleased God (as was Elijah, no doubt). If the church was to be taken in the same manner one would think the same reason for translation would apply. But it doesn't. If the scriptures record a translation before death of Enoch and Elijah, why does the scripture omit the future translation before death of millions of people from all over the world?" 

And the point is the bible mentions the translation before death of both Enoch and Elijah, specifically. As in 'words to remove all doubt'.  But not so for Pre Trib. No 'pretrib rapture' is mentioned by name, by imagery, by specific and clear wording, nor by a descriptive event. I think something like this should merit at least a passing mention. After all, millions are going to be gone instantly with no explanation. Millions of the rigidly faithful, purely righteous, and God pleasing people are going to be translated and God, Jesus and the Holy Spirit omit this? When one man was translated God said so. Then another was translated and God told us that as well. Are you telling me God is going to fail to laud a vast group of the spiritually holy taken to heaven alive? 

Edited July 1, 2016 by Diaste

[Endtime_Survivors]

On 6/30/2016 at 5:24 AM, hmbld said:

 Instead, He laid His life down, and suffered much.  I am not sure pointing to Enoch can be a valid reason to say pre-trib is correct.  

Yup.  I am reminded of Philipians 3:10, "I want to know Christ and the power of His resurrection and the fellowship of His sufferings, being conformed to Him in His death,"

[Sister]

On 01/07/2016 at 8:26 AM, Marcus O'Reillius said:

Was this the Hebrew or Ethiopian version?

I'm very interested in obtaining a copy of the Hebrew sourced version.  What was your source for the book you found?

Hi Marcus

When I downloaded Enoch from the internet about 7 years ago, I didn't realise that there was more than one interpretation.  The copy I have is by H R Charles. I'm not sure if that's the Hebrew or Ethiopian version?