who is the antichrist?

[7thseal]

On 11/6/2016 at 10:49 PM, Salty said:

 There are TWO BEASTS in Rev.13, the 1st one is the kingdom beast. The 2nd beast called the "another beast" is the coming Antichrist. He will appear meek as a lamb, but will speak as a dragon, as written there. And he is who will work those great signs and wonders of Matt.24:23-26 which Jesus warned His servants about.

 

I'm a bit confused now, so the first is a kingdom, but the second is Antichrist which demands all worship but then points to the first beast (kingdom) to receive all the worship? Maybe I'm missing something here. Satan isn't going to share being worshiped with anyone once he enters into the Antichrist.

 

Revelation 13: 8  And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.

So the Antichrist isn't being worshiped, but this kingdom?

[other one]

1 hour ago, 7thseal said:

So the Antichrist isn't being worshiped, but this kingdom?

I don't think I have ever seen that question answered in a logical way.

 

[woundeddog]

I'm pretty sure my x-brother-in-law is the antichrist

[7thseal]

12 minutes ago, other one said:

I don't think I have ever seen that question answered in a logical way.

 

If we dig deeper in Revelation, then we find that the one entering into the temple to stop the sacrifice isn't a kingdom but a person. And all worship is directed toward him. Hmm but look through those verses and its a false prophet pointing to him as god while showing all the same powers as the one sitting on the alter as god.

 

Again look at what the Quran teaches about Jesus.

Edited November 10, 2016 by 7thseal

[other one]

12 minutes ago, 7thseal said:

Again look at what the Quran teaches about Jesus.

Interesting thought....  how many groups are looking for a messiah and are really looking for the Antichrist?

[7thseal]

13 minutes ago, other one said:

Interesting thought....

That false prophet is given power to make war against the saints.

The Quran teaches that Jesus (a prophet) is the judge that has the power to execute those that doesn't worship  their messiah. Of course he will have to show that he is who he claims. That is where Revelation is pointing to the false prophet as working signs and wonders.

Edited November 10, 2016 by 7thseal

[7thseal]

17 minutes ago, other one said:

Interesting thought....  how many groups are looking for a messiah and are really looking for the Antichrist?

People are looking for signs... and that is where Satan is going to deceive many.

[Salty]

14 hours ago, 7thseal said:

I'm a bit confused now, so the first is a kingdom, but the second is Antichrist which demands all worship but then points to the first beast (kingdom) to receive all the worship? Maybe I'm missing something here. Satan isn't going to share being worshiped with anyone once he enters into the Antichrist.

 

Revelation 13: 8  And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.

So the Antichrist isn't being worshiped, but this kingdom?

There's 2 beasts described in that Rev.13 Chapter. But the subject about them switches, so we have to be careful. When the "dragon" is mentioned you know that's about Satan himself. But when it's talking about the ten horns, seven heads, or like the animal symbols in Rev.13:2 from the old beast kingdoms in Daniel 7, then it's talking about the system, the idea of a kingdom.

When you get to Rev.13:11 forward, the 2nd beast is about a person because he will appear with two horns LIKE a lamb, but spake as a dragon. That's a little beating around the bush, but it's pointing to the coming pseudo-Christ of Matt.24:23-26 and 2 Thess.2:3-4, because that's also who we were told to watch out for that will do those great signs and miracles on earth.

The problem most seem to be having is with how the KJV translators used all those "him" and "his" personal pronouns in the first part of the Rev.13 Chapter, when some of them could have just as easily been translated to "its" from the Greek.

Another clue is how Rev.12:3-4 told us about an old beast kingdom the red dragon used when drawing a third of the stars (angels) into rebellion with him. That's about Satan's rebellion of old, his original sin against God. That old system had only seven crowns. Many miss that relationship and contrast, as that's how we are to think of it, our Lord Jesus giving us a pointer about the final beast system upon the earth in Rev.13.

Rev.17 gives us another clue that the Rev.13:1-2 first beast is about a system, or kingdom, when our Lord told us the "seven heads" are "seven mountains". Mountains are not men. They are locations. Rev.13 tells us only ONE of the "seven heads" suffered a deadly wound, which means one of the "seven mountains" had a deadly wound that was healed, while the other six mountains had no wound.

It's paying attention to these kind of little details which points us exactly as to what and whom is being spoken of.

 

So with this section of Rev.13, who is being spoken of, the kingdom beast, or the beast king (the dragon)?

Rev 13:4-8
4 And they worshipped the dragon which gave power unto the beast: and they worshipped the beast, saying, Who is like unto the beast? who is able to make war with him?

5 And there was given unto him a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies; and power was given unto him to continue forty and two months.

6 And he opened his mouth in blasphemy against God, to blaspheme His name, and His tabernacle, and them that dwell in heaven.

7 And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations.

8 And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.
KJV

Those underlined parts were first mentioned back in the Book of Daniel about the "little horn" of Dan.7. We should recognize that. All those are indicators about the 2nd beast mentioned specifically later in the Rev.13:11-16 verses.

Our Lord Jesus gave us all these title descriptions to make it easier to understood just whom and what He was talking about. There's a beast kingdom, and there's a beast king, that blueprint from the Book of Daniel. The beast king is the beast being spoken of in Rev.17 that mentions the one who was, and is not, and yet is, and goes into perdition. He is not the beast kingdom that has ten horns (kings), ten crowns, and seven heads (mountains). The context of the Scripture shows which 'beast' is being spoken of. We have to pay attention to that in Revelation.

 

 

[Salty]

15 hours ago, 7thseal said:

I'm a bit confused now, so the first is a kingdom, but the second is Antichrist which demands all worship but then points to the first beast (kingdom) to receive all the worship? Maybe I'm missing something here. Satan isn't going to share being worshiped with anyone once he enters into the Antichrist.

 

Revelation 13: 8  And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.

So the Antichrist isn't being worshiped, but this kingdom?

Could it be pointing to the 'system' (1st beast) being worshiped also? I say yes, but not in the same sense as false worship to the Antichrist. There are people that have given their whole lives in trying to bring about today's one-world government movement. Would that show a kind of worship of the 'system'? I say yes.

But keeping the two beasts of Rev.13 separate should be fairly easy if one pays attention.

Concerning the Antichrist, I do not believe Satan will possess some flesh man as the Antichrist. Scripture is actually pointing directly about Satan coming de facto to this earth in OUR dimension. This is why the great signs and miracles he will do will cause the majority of the world to worship him as God. Rev.12:7 forward about his being cast down to this earth with his angels is going to be actual, literal, not symbolic or just spiritual.

Edited November 11, 2016 by Salty

[Salty]

21 hours ago, Remnantrob said:

Most of the major Christian denominations have founders who identified the AntiChrist as the papacy.  Most english readers automatically say that the prefix anti means against or in opposition.  My former coworker who was a greek orthodox and spoke and read greek said it can also mean substitute.  The papacy usually says that the pope is the vicar of christ.  Vicar is another word that means substitute or in the place of.  

Well, if it were the papacy, then he best be getting on with doing the great signs, wonders, and miracles, raining fire down from heaven in the sight of men, because those are the kind of supernatural manifestations the coming Antichrist is to do, as written.

Not only that point, but in Matt.24:23-26, our Lord Jesus showed us just how powerful in deception those signs and wonders will be, when He said that if possible, it would deceive His very elect servants. His elect cannot be deceived, because they are sealed by The Holy Spirit for the end. So what level of powerful deception do those miracles represent, if it could almost... deceive Christ's own very elect chosen ones? What does it mean for brethren weak in the Faith?

This is why the coming "great tribulation" is not going to be about war, nor chaos in the street, etc. It is going to be a time of world peace, because the coming Antichrist is going to literally fool the majority into believing he is God having come to earth. And those of us who refuse to believe will be singled out for not bowing in worship. That has NEVER happened in world history to this day. And it certainly will not be pulled off by some flesh born man in Rome.