Once saved always saved?

[hmbld]

7 minutes ago, shiloh357 said:

So, why do you work from the assumption that every warning is given upon the pain of losing salvation?  Are there no other reasons for why we are to be on guard?   Is there no other reason to test what other say against Scripture?  

The problem with that kind of assumption is that it pretty much defeats the purpose of grace.   If I take your view, then grace is only extended to me on the days that I have all my ducks in a row and I never mess up.     It would be like finding out that your car insurance policy is only good for the days that you don't have an accident.   What good is it then?  Grace isn't for the people who never fail.  Grace is for the rest of us.

 

Whew!  I need my car insurance for the day I do have an accident!

Not because I want to have an accident and will purposely have all the accidents I want, because I have insurance, why not!

[Heb 13:8]

3 hours ago, shiloh357 said:

It would be like finding out that your car insurance policy is only good for the days that you don't have an accident.   What good is it then?  Grace isn't for the people who never fail.  Grace is for the rest of us.

Great example.

3 hours ago, shiloh357 said:

They twist and pervert what we believe, erect straw men just to have something to knock down.  Every attempt to clarify what we believe is met with deaf ears.

Perfectly said. It's an exhausting doctrine to defend.

[JohnD]

1 John 2:19 (NASB95)
19 They went out from us, but they were not really of us; for if they had been of us, they would have remained with us; but they went out, so that it would be shown that they all are not of us.

Only the never saved in the first place can "leave" the faith.

[JohnD]

Jeremiah 32:40 (NASB95)
40 “I will make an everlasting covenant with them that I will not turn away from them, to do them good; and I will put the fear of Me in their hearts so that they will not turn away from Me.

 

[JohnD]

John 10:28–29 (NASB95)
28 and I give eternal life to them, and they will never perish; and no one will snatch them out of My hand.
29 “My Father, who has given them to Me, is greater than all; and no one is able to snatch them out of the Father’s hand.

 

[JohnD]

Is everyone who believed they are saved actually saved?

Of course not.

Matthew 7:21–23 (NASB95)
21 “Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father who is in heaven will enter.
22 “Many will say to Me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in Your name, and in Your name cast out demons, and in Your name perform many miracles?’
23 “And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; DEPART FROM ME, YOU WHO PRACTICE LAWLESSNESS.’

 

 

[JohnD]

John 3:16–18 (NASB95)
16 “For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life.
17 “For God did not send the Son into the world to judge the world, but that the world might be saved through Him.
18 “He who believes in Him is not judged; he who does not believe has been judged already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

trust in ANYTHING else = eternal doom

[JohnD]

1 John 1:1–2:17 (NASB95)
1 What was from the beginning, what we have heard, what we have seen with our eyes, what we have looked at and touched with our hands, concerning the Word of Life—
2 and the life was manifested, and we have seen and testify and proclaim to you the eternal life, which was with the Father and was manifested to us—
3 what we have seen and heard we proclaim to you also, so that you too may have fellowship with us; and indeed our fellowship is with the Father, and with His Son Jesus Christ.
4 These things we write, so that our joy may be made complete.
5 This is the message we have heard from Him and announce to you, that God is Light, and in Him there is no darkness at all.
6 If we say that we have fellowship with Him and yet walk in the darkness, we lie and do not practice the truth;
7 but if we walk in the Light as He Himself is in the Light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus His Son cleanses us from all sin.
8 If we say that we have no sin, we are deceiving ourselves and the truth is not in us.
9 If we confess our sins, He is faithful and righteous to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
10 If we say that we have not sinned, we make Him a liar and His word is not in us.
1 My little children, I am writing these things to you so that you may not sin. And if anyone sins, we have an Advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous;
2 and He Himself is the propitiation for our sins; and not for ours only, but also for those of the whole world.
3 By this we know that we have come to know Him, if we keep His commandments.
4 The one who says, “I have come to know Him,” and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him;
5 but whoever keeps His word, in him the love of God has truly been perfected. By this we know that we are in Him:
6 the one who says he abides in Him ought himself to walk in the same manner as He walked.
7 Beloved, I am not writing a new commandment to you, but an old commandment which you have had from the beginning; the old commandment is the word which you have heard.
8 On the other hand, I am writing a new commandment to you, which is true in Him and in you, because the darkness is passing away and the true Light is already shining.
9 The one who says he is in the Light and yet hates his brother is in the darkness until now.
10 The one who loves his brother abides in the Light and there is no cause for stumbling in him.
11 But the one who hates his brother is in the darkness and walks in the darkness, and does not know where he is going because the darkness has blinded his eyes.
12 I am writing to you, little children, because your sins have been forgiven you for His name’s sake.
13 I am writing to you, fathers, because you know Him who has been from the beginning. I am writing to you, young men, because you have overcome the evil one. I have written to you, children, because you know the Father.
14 I have written to you, fathers, because you know Him who has been from the beginning. I have written to you, young men, because you are strong, and the word of God abides in you, and you have overcome the evil one.
15 Do not love the world nor the things in the world. If anyone loves the world, the love of the Father is not in him.
16 For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh and the lust of the eyes and the boastful pride of life, is not from the Father, but is from the world.
17 The world is passing away, and also its lusts; but the one who does the will of God lives forever.
 

[JohnD]

Hebrews 6:4–6 (NASB95)
4 For in the case of those who have once been enlightened and have tasted of the heavenly gift and have been made partakers of the Holy Spirit,
5 and have tasted the good word of God and the powers of the age to come,
6 and then have fallen away, it is impossible to renew them again to repentance, since they again crucify to themselves the Son of God and put Him to open shame.

must be interpreted with 1 John 2:19.

Able to fall away = never saved to begin with. They only tasted the gift and Spirit.

[HAZARD]

5 hours ago, JohnD said:

Hebrews 6:4–6 (NASB95)
4 For in the case of those who have once been enlightened and have tasted of the heavenly gift and have been made partakers of the Holy Spirit,
5 and have tasted the good word of God and the powers of the age to come,
6 and then have fallen away, it is impossible to renew them again to repentance, since they again crucify to themselves the Son of God and put Him to open shame.

must be interpreted with 1 John 2:19.

Able to fall away = never saved to begin with. They only tasted the gift and Spirit.

Sorry friend, wrong.

KJV. Hebrews 6:4;

 4, For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost,

Were once enlightened but not now enlightened (V4).This refers to "those who have been made Christians."

Paul uses the same term of saved men elsewhere (Eph. 1:18; Heb. 10:32; Cp. Ps. 19:7-8; Luke 11:34-36). Only saints are called children of light (Eph. 5:8; Col. 1:12; 1 Th. 5:5) and only saved men are spoken of as being in the light (Mt. 5:15-15; Luke 16:8; John 3:20-21; 8:12; 12:36; Rom. 13:12; Eph. 5:14; Col. 1:12; 1 John 1:7; 2:9-10).

Only men who have not been saved are spoken of as being darkened from the gospel of light (2 Cor. 4:4; Eph. 4:18; 5:8; Col. 1:13; 1 Th. 5:5; 1 Pet. 2:9; 1 John 1:6; 2:8-11).

Have tasted the heavenly gift (V 4). The Gr. genuomal, have experience of. Trans. to eat (Acts 10:10; 20:11; 23:14) and to taste (V 4, 5. 2:9; Mt. 16:28; 27:34; Mark 9:1; Luke 9:27; 14:24; John 2:9; 8:52; Col. 2;21; 1 Pet. 2:3).

How could one taste of death, taste the Lord, taste the heavenly gift, and other things of these passages without experiencing them?

Were make partakers of the Holy Ghost (v 4). Gr. methchos, partner and fellow with. No sinner is a partaker of the Holy Ghost (Rom. 8:9-16).It borders on blasphemy to accuse the Holy Ghost of being a partner, sharer, and an associate with the ungodly. Jesus said that sinners cannot receive the Holy Ghost (John 14:17). Jude confirmed the same truth (Jude 19).

Have tasted the good Word of God (V. 5). To taste the Word of God is to be saved, as proved in Matt. 13:20-23; Luke 8:13-15; John 15:3; Acts 2:41; 4:4; 8:14; 11:1; 17:11; Rom. 10:9-10; Eph. 5:26; Jas. 1:18-25; 1 Pet. 1:18-23. No man receives the Word and remains unsaved.

Have tasted the powers of the world to come (V 5). To taste of these powers means to experience eternal life. Every time such statement is found it referes to eternal life (Mt.10:30; Lk. 18:30; 20:35).

KJV, Hebrews 6:6.

  6, If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.

If they shall fall away (V 6). How could they fall away from the experiences of V 4-5 if the never did have them? The language is past tense and factual so it cannot be denied that the ones referred to did at one time have experiences. Gr. parapipto, to fall aside, apostatize; fall away. It means to throw overboard all faith in the experiences of the gospel and deny them. Men are here warned that such is possible.

'to renew them again" to repentance is impossible. The reason given is that they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put Him to open shame. This is the final act of apostasy. They publicly judge Him an imposter and worthy of death. That is, they do not believe in Him or His atonement any longer. Since such faith is the only thing that could renew them again to repentance, it then becomes impossible. How could they be renewed again to repentance if they had not experienced repentance before? The word again means once more; another time; anew; and this is require repentance one before.