Defense for the Mass-Transit System Rapture

[Retrobyter]

6 hours ago, Davida said:

But Roy, don't you think what you say about hell contradicts what Jesus said? What about Mathew 10:28 "And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell." According to the Bible, those who are not saved & born again through Jesus Christ will not go to heaven.

You are preaching that God is only a GOD of Love and not the HOLY GOD who is also Justice and the whole reason why Jesus came to die for our sins is because GOD is JUST and sin requires punishment.

Shalom, Davida.

Not at all. First of all, you need to know that there are three Greek words (hadees, ge-enna, and tartaro-oo) and one Hebrew word (sh'owl) that were translated "hell."

In Matthew 10:28, the word used is "ge-enna." This Greek word (often rendered "gehenna") comes from the Hebrew phrase "gei-Hinnowm," which means "valley of Hinnom." This is the place outside of Yerushalayim's Old City where the judgment seat ("throne") of the King of Israel was located for the judgment of criminals. It will be used again when Yeshua` the Messiah becomes haMelekh Yisra'el, the King of Israel, when He sentences the war criminals to their fate, separating them from those who will be tributary nations, as if He were separating sheep from the goats.

A normal person can only cause the soul to cease to exist by killing the body, but when he does that, the air breather is no longer within his power. He's done as much damage as is humanly possible.

The SUPERNATURAL Person who becomes Israel's King shall not only kill the person, but then in the resurrection of the unjust, He shall destroy the whole air-breather with consignment to the Lake of Fire as His verdict from the Great White Throne Judgment.

On a separate issue, "according to the Bible?" There is NOT ONE verse to which you can point to say that we "go to heaven!" When one is born again, justified by God, He is destined to see and become a part of "the Kingdom of God!" That's a Kingdom that Yeshua` the Messiah establishes RIGHT HERE ON THIS EARTH when He returns! It is called "the Kingdom of God," because it is GOD'S Kingdom. It is called "the Kingdom of Heaven" because it is a Kingdom that comes FROM THE SKY (because the KING comes from the sky when He returns)!

I do NOT "preach God is only a God of love." To the contrary, I just know that the word "hell" is the WRONG WORD! It is "the LAKE OF FIRE AND SULFUR" to which one is permanently consigned for punishment in rejecting God's ONLY SON, God's ONLY WAY to Himself, and this consignment comes AFTER the Great White Throne Judgment, which in turn comes AT THE END of the Millennium!

Edited August 25, 2016 by Retrobyter

[RustyAngeL]

On 8/21/2016 at 11:33 PM, missmuffet said:

You do not believe those who are raptured will go to heaven? Do you believe in heaven? That is very strange. Definitely not Biblical.

No not Biblical.  

Heaven is talked about in Revelation chapter 21.  I don't want to go past Heaven.... That is my eternal home.

Blessings, RustyAngel

[Retrobyter]

4 hours ago, HAZARD said:

Retrobyter wrote ;

There it is, "he figured" purely his own theory, nothing more.

Shalom, HAZARD.

Short and "sweet" and TOTALLY OFF-BASE!

[Retrobyter]

3 minutes ago, RustyAngeL said:

No not Biblical.  

Heaven is talked about in Revelation chapter 21.  I don't want to go past Heaven.... That is my eternal home.

Blessings, RustyAngel

Shalom, RustyAngeL.

Sorry, but that is NOT "Heaven" being talked about in Revelation chapter 21. That is the NEW JERUSALEM! That is a LITERAL, PHYSICAL CITY that is currently being built in space and will land upon the New Earth after this earth has gone through the global Fire.

You're right though, the New Jerusalem IS your (and my) eternal home!

You (and others) need to pay attention to the details!

[RustyAngeL]

I don't know where you picked up such a notion but it is not in scripture.

[Ezra]

8 hours ago, HAZARD said:

Retrobyter wrote ;

There it is, "he figured" purely his own theory, nothing more.

Speculation may be entertaining for some, but does not help to arrive at the truth.

[Guest Robert]

34 minutes ago, inchrist said:

False, retro is a 1000% correct, heaven is not our destination.

The Christians are promised the earth as their inheritance.

Christ made that more than clear (Matthew 5:5).

This is further enforced in praise of the Christ:

"Worthy are you to take the book and to break its seals; for you were slain, and purchased for God with your blood men [and women] from every tribe and tongue and people and nation. You have made them to be a kingdom and priests to our God; and they will reign upon the earth" (Revelation 5:9-10).

This is a plain confirmation of Matthew 5:5.

The location of the Kingdom is the earth and believers of all the ages will reign as kings with Christ over the earth and of course, "upon the earth." 

Christ is coming back to the earth and so he will thereafter be on the earth to which he has returned. Then the words of Jeremiah and many other prophets will be fulfilled:

"Behold, days are coming, declares the LORD, when I will raise up for David a righteous branch [the Messiah]; and he will reign as king and act wisely and do justice and righteousness in the land. In his days Judah will be saved, and Israel will dwell securely" (Jeremiah 23:5-6).

Revelation 4-6 and 19 prove that the Church goes to Heaven (Christ does not remain on the Earth after the Rapture, and the saints do not come from a place they did not go); as for Jeremiah 23:5-6, that is speaking of Israel. We return with Christ at the Second Coming, where we reign with Him on Earth; then the Earth is destroyed after the Millennium, an New Earth is created, and New Jerusalem descends to it. In that respect, RustyAngeL is correct, as Revelation specifically says that God will dwell with men (Rev. 21:3). Where God is, there is Heaven.

On an aside: you really need to apologize to RustyAngeL for being disrespectful. Worthy is a ministry, and we are specifically instructed in scripture to have respect for those who oversee ministry (which includes watchmen and moderators here). That is not how we are to conduct ourselves: it hurts our witness, and it hurts those who are doing their best in the Lord to serve in positions of trust and responsibility.

Edited August 25, 2016 by RobertS

[WilliamL]

On 8/21/2016 at 9:18 PM, Retrobyter said:

We are never told we shall go to "Heaven" because that's not our destiny!

Heb. 12:22 But you are come to Mount Zion and to the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, to an innumerable company of angels, 23 to the general assembly and church of the firstborn who are registered in heaven, to God the Judge of all, to the spirits of just men made perfect, 24 to Jesus the Mediator of the new covenant...

This, in context, is speaking of the Rapture, and definitely states that we will go to the place of the angels, of God, and of Jesus, in the heavenly Jerusalem.

Yes, the heavenly Jerusalem will later descend to a new earth after the 1000 years, but in the meantime it is in heaven, where those Raptured will come to be also. So the first part of your statement is scripturally false.

[FresnoJoe]

On 8/21/2016 at 10:18 PM, Retrobyter said:

Shabbat shalom, everyone!

I figured, why not? So, here goes:

I believe in the "rapture" of 1 Thessalonians 4:13-17, as it is often called; however, I do NOT believe that anyone goes to "Heaven." We will go THROUGH the "heavens," the "skies," on our way to the Middle East. We'll meet the Master in the air, and from that time on we'll always be with the Master....

~

As Jesus Descends

And when he had said these things, as they saw him, he was taken up and a cloud received him and he was hidden from their eyes. And as they were gazing into the sky, as he was going, two men were present standing with them in white clothing. And they were saying to them, "Galilean men, why are you standing and gazing into the sky? This Yeshua, who was taken up from you into Heaven shall come in this way, as when you saw him going up into Heaven." Acts 1:9-11 (Aramaic Bible in Plain English)

Back Down To His Beloved Jerusalem

The LORD thunders at the head of his army; his forces are beyond number, and mighty is the army that obeys his command. The day of the LORD is great; it is dreadful. Who can endure it? Joel 2:11 (New International Version)

The Saints Are Ruptured To Him

For since we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so, through Jesus, God will bring with him those who have fallen asleep. For this we declare to you by a word from the Lord, that we who are alive, who are left until the coming of the Lord, will not precede those who have fallen asleep. For the Lord himself will descend from heaven with a cry of command, with the voice of an archangel, and with the sound of the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first. Then we who are alive, who are left, will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air, and so we will always be with the Lord. Therefore encourage one another with these words. 1 Thessalonians 4:15-18 (English Standard Version)

For We Have Work

John to the seven churches that are in Asia: Grace to you and peace, from Him who is and who was and who is to come, and from the seven Spirits who are before His throne, and from Jesus Christ, the faithful witness, the firstborn of the dead, and the ruler of the kings of the earth. To Him who loves us and released us from our sins by His blood— and He has made us to be a kingdom, priests to His God and Father—to Him be the glory and the dominion forever and ever. Amen.

BEHOLD, HE IS COMING WITH THE CLOUDS, and every eye will see Him, even those who pierced Him; and all the tribes of the earth will mourn over Him. So it is to be. Amen. Revelation 1:4-7 (New American Standard Bible)

To Do

Then I saw the thrones, and those seated on them had been given authority to judge. And I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded for their testimony of Jesus and for the word of God, and those who had not worshiped the beast or its image, and had not received its mark on their foreheads or hands.

And they came to life and reigned with Christ for a thousand years. Revelation 20:4 (Berean Study Bible)

~

Be Blessed Beloved  Of The KING

The LORD bless thee, and keep thee:
The LORD make his face shine upon thee, and be gracious unto thee:
The LORD lift up his countenance upon thee, and give thee peace.

And they shall put my name upon the children of Israel; and I will bless them. Numbers 6:24-27

Love, Your Brother Joe

[RustyAngeL]

13 hours ago, Retrobyter said:

Shalom, RustyAngeL.

Sorry, but that is NOT "Heaven" being talked about in Revelation chapter 21. That is the NEW JERUSALEM! That is a LITERAL, PHYSICAL CITY that is currently being built in space and will land upon the New Earth after this earth has gone through the global Fire.

You're right though, the New Jerusalem IS your (and my) eternal home!

You (and others) need to pay attention to the details!

So let me get this straight.  The New Jerusalem is being built in space and will land on earth.?? like the Mother Ship.?  and all of us here at Worthy are wrong and you are right?  Wow silly me so many well versed Biblicaly based people who have been in the Scriptures for years yet your the only one that is right.  If I were you, with all due respect, I would think again.

RustyAngeL