brakelite Posted October 30, 2016 Group: Senior Member Followers: 8 Topic Count: 23 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 977 Content Per Day: 0.21 Reputation: 641 Days Won: 0 Joined: 07/15/2011 Status: Offline Share Posted October 30, 2016 @Giller I won't quote your whole post for the sake of space, for I have only one point to make which beleve may change the perspectie of your post. You quoted Colossians 2:16... ¶ Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days...you correctly stated that we must refer scripture to other scripture...comparing one text with another to find understanding. You reference Levit 23, and ecause you see that the weekly Sabbath is there mentioned in verse 3, you infer that that weekly Sabbath is therefore a 'feast day' and ceremonial, along with the other 7. I would like to respectfully disagree with that, for the following reason. First, because in verse 4 Moses repeats what he said in verse 2, "These are the feasts of the Lord, even holy convocations etc., " the way I see that is that the weekly Sabbath is set apart from the others...it is actually set in contrast to the other Sabbaths. The Lord, through Moses, is saying effectually that these are my feast days which you must observe, aside from the weekly Sabbath. In harmony with this is that those feasts are annual days, and are closely bound up with the Temple service in accordance with the annual Jewish calendar. This calendar, the temple services, the sacrifices, and the annual round of feast days and ceremonies, were established as a result of sin. It was the gospel for the Jewish nation...all pointed to the future ministry of the coming Messiah, who when He came in the person of Jesus, fulfilled all those feasts and ceremonies thus no longer were those who accepted Christ obliged to observe them. Following on from this is verse 17, of Colossians 2. Verse 16 and 17 saying "Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days, which are a shadow of things to come. Thus Paul has given to those things previously mentioned, a specific quality...they are shadows of things to come. Now as I mentioned, the Temple service and all its accompanying feasts and sacrifices, were given to Israel as a result of sin, forshadowing Christ. The weekly Sabbath by contrast was given to man (as per Mark 2:27) before sin entered the world, and therefore cannot be included among those Sabbaths which were shadows, or types of the coming ministry of the Messiah whose purpose was to destroy the power of sin. The handwriting of ordinances which were against Israel, which were nailed to the cross, cannot be inclusive of that portion of Torah which were written by the finger of God, even though the Ten Commandments were included in Deut.5. One can tear up that handwriting...burn them...utterly destroy them and yet those stone rock-hewn tables written by the finger of God remain as a constant reminder saying, "Remember the Sabbath Day to keep it holy...." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest BacKaran Posted October 30, 2016 Share Posted October 30, 2016 (edited) My simple answer is that Jesus completed life perfectly having fulfilled all of the mosaic laws and thus since He fulfilled them, He is ourtSabbath rest. As a born again regenerated soul, I am free to worship Him on any day because He fulfilled the ot laws. The New covanent frees Gentiles and saved believers, even messianic Jews, from the burden of those ot laws. The Jews today are still in exile so the Word continues to go out to the four corners of the earth until Christ's return. Blessings? Edited October 30, 2016 by BacKaran Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest shiloh357 Posted October 30, 2016 Share Posted October 30, 2016 20 hours ago, brakelite said: To get back to the original question, which day is Sabbath? It is the day Jesus made holy at creation....it is the day He sanctified...it is the day He rested on...it is the first full day in which He spent time with His special new creation, man and woman...it is the day He reminded Israel of to remember that they may be blessed...it is the day Jesus observed throughout His life correcting the mistakes and undoing the heavy burdens that had been placed upon it since Israel's sojourn in Babylon...it is the day the apostles observed throughout their lifetime...it is the day Paul observed teaching both Jews and Gentiles...it is the 7th day ...it is the day that the Roman church decided to trample on by persecuting those who observed it and upholding Sunday, the first day which was first instituted by the Roman emperor but confirmed by the clergy to replace Sabbath with a spurious, false and counterfeit "Lord's Day". If you choose to observe the Sabbath day, that is between you and God. I have made the choice to honor God on Sunday. The Sabbath is not a requirement for NT believers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brakelite Posted October 30, 2016 Group: Senior Member Followers: 8 Topic Count: 23 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 977 Content Per Day: 0.21 Reputation: 641 Days Won: 0 Joined: 07/15/2011 Status: Offline Share Posted October 30, 2016 2 hours ago, shiloh357 said: If you choose to observe the Sabbath day, that is between you and God. I have made the choice to honor God on Sunday. The Sabbath is not a requirement for NT believers. Which is a common response. My only reply is that in making such a decision as you have made, considering it is a decision to deliberately ignore a specific commandment of the original ten, you must have a very very good sound Biblical reason for doing so...a reason beyond all doubt, beyond all dispute. A clear unmistakable "thus sayeth the Lord" in support. Perhaps one day I will discover that I am wrong, that it is me who has been teaching as doctrine the commandment of men.... perhaps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brakelite Posted October 30, 2016 Group: Senior Member Followers: 8 Topic Count: 23 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 977 Content Per Day: 0.21 Reputation: 641 Days Won: 0 Joined: 07/15/2011 Status: Offline Share Posted October 30, 2016 2 hours ago, BacKaran said: My simple answer is that Jesus completed life perfectly having fulfilled all of the mosaic laws and thus since He fulfilled them, He is ourtSabbath rest. As a born again regenerated soul, I am free to worship Him on any day because He fulfilled the ot laws. The New covanent frees Gentiles and saved believers, even messianic Jews, from the burden of those ot laws. The Jews today are still in exile so the Word continues to go out to the four corners of the earth until Christ's return. Blessings? Because Jesus fulfilled all the OT laws does that mean we can ignore the 6th or the 3rd commandments along with the 4th? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Robert Posted October 30, 2016 Share Posted October 30, 2016 2 minutes ago, brakelite said: Which is a common response. My only reply is that in making such a decision as you have made, considering it is a decision to deliberately ignore a specific commandment of the original ten, you must have a very very good sound Biblical reason for doing so...a reason beyond all doubt, beyond all dispute. A clear unmistakable "thus sayeth the Lord" in support. Perhaps one day I will discover that I am wrong, that it is me who has been teaching as doctrine the commandment of men.... perhaps. Paul wrote this in Colossians: " Therefore no one is to act as your judge in regard to food or drink or in respect to a festival or a new moon or a Sabbath day— things which are a mere shadow of what is to come; but the substance belongs to Christ. Let no one keep defrauding you of your prize by delighting in self-abasement and the worship of the angels, taking his stand on visions he has seen, inflated without cause by his fleshly mind, and not holding fast to the head, from whom the entire body, being supplied and held together by the joints and ligaments, grows with a growth which is from God. " (Colossians 2:16-19, NASB, emphasis mine) and this: "One person regards one day above another, another regards every day alike. Each person must be fully convinced in his own mind. He who observes the day, observes it for the Lord, and he who eats, does so for the Lord, for he gives thanks to God; and he who eats not, for the Lord he does not eat, and gives thanks to God. For not one of us lives for himself, and not one dies for himself; for if we live, we live for the Lord, or if we die, we die for the Lord; therefore whether we live or die, we are the Lord’s. For to this end Christ died and lived again, that He might be Lord both of the dead and of the living." (Romans 14:5-9, NASB, emphasis mine) Paul was "a Pharisee among Pharisees", which means he would not have taken the Decalogue lightly. Yet, he wrote these passages in Scripture, inspired by the Lord. And if we want even further material on this situation, the Lord Himself spoke on this during His time on Earth: "At that time Jesus went through the grainfields on the Sabbath, and His disciples became hungry and began to pick the heads of grain and eat. But when the Pharisees saw this, they said to Him, “Look, Your disciples do what is not lawful to do on a Sabbath.” But He said to them, “Have you not read what David did when he became hungry, he and his companions, how he entered the house of God, and they ate the consecrated bread, which was not lawful for him to eat nor for those with him, but for the priests alone? Or have you not read in the Law, that on the Sabbath the priests in the temple break the Sabbath and are innocent? But I say to you that something greater than the temple is here. But if you had known what this means, ‘I DESIRE COMPASSION, AND NOT A SACRIFICE,’ you would not have condemned the innocent. For the Son of Man is Lord of the Sabbath. " (Matthew 12:1-8, NASB, emphasis mine) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RustyAngeL Posted October 30, 2016 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 23 Topic Count: 155 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 7,464 Content Per Day: 1.02 Reputation: 8,810 Days Won: 57 Joined: 03/30/2004 Status: Offline Birthday: 12/12/1952 Share Posted October 30, 2016 2 hours ago, BacKaran said: My simple answer is that Jesus completed life perfectly having fulfilled all of the mosaic laws and thus since He fulfilled them, He is ourtSabbath rest. As a born again regenerated soul, I am free to worship Him on any day because He fulfilled the ot laws. The New covanent frees Gentiles and saved believers, even messianic Jews, from the burden of those ot laws. The Jews today are still in exile so the Word continues to go out to the four corners of the earth until Christ's return. Blessings? Amen. People that are so tied to the law are miserable people indeed. I have a friend who believes that Saturday is the only right day to worship. She even believes we will be "Required" to worship in Heaven on Saturday. She is tied to some the dietary laws as well. Very sad. No time for joy, just for law, law, law. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest BacKaran Posted October 30, 2016 Share Posted October 30, 2016 (edited) We ignore nothing but trust and obey God and live by Jesus example as we live out the time we have left in this fallen world. Regeneration of a soul shows fruit aka changes in behavior. my old self, and I was under false beliefs of the rcc, that I could sin all week cuz confession time was every Friday. (No one need to respond from the rcc, this is my experience and that of many ex rccers.....) Now I know the Truth as my heart convicts me the second I sin and I still and ask for forgiveness immediately. I obey God's commands as best I can with guidance, help and discernment on this fallen earth but I am compelled by the Holy Spirit in love to not sin. Since I'm still born with the sin nature, I will still sin. I'm already redeemed by Jesus blood, the bible tells me He's forgiven all my sins, past, present and future. Completely forgiven, not just for given until next Friday. The difference is now that I am born again, I no longer crave or desire things of this world. I am compelled to live like Christ and even though I may fail, He's assured me of my place in haven and that is The Good News for those who believe!? Edited October 30, 2016 by BacKaran Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest BacKaran Posted October 30, 2016 Share Posted October 30, 2016 (edited) Rusty angel, I've witnessed the truth to my aunt, 7 th day Adventist, and I still love her and we're have had some intense debates but she's still blinded by deceit so all I can do is pray for her. People who are not ready to change will not change, no matter how many times the Truth has been given but... one day... There is still hope and it's in Christ, amen.? Edited October 30, 2016 by BacKaran Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest shiloh357 Posted October 30, 2016 Share Posted October 30, 2016 45 minutes ago, brakelite said: Which is a common response. My only reply is that in making such a decision as you have made, considering it is a decision to deliberately ignore a specific commandment of the original ten, you must have a very very good sound Biblical reason for doing so...a reason beyond all doubt, beyond all dispute. A clear unmistakable "thus sayeth the Lord" in support. Perhaps one day I will discover that I am wrong, that it is me who has been teaching as doctrine the commandment of men.... perhaps. You need to show that the Sabbath day is required under the New Covenant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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