Where are the prayers going?

[HisFirst]

2 minutes ago, OneLight said:

This thread is in the Outer Court, so they can respond if they choose to do so.

They may not be realizing who they are speaking to, I agree, but when they ask something like "don't let me slip up", they are asking someone else besides "me", if it is indeed a prayer.  Otherwise, I agree, something like "I need to keep it together" would be self talk.

Well if they are reaching out to God in prayer, there obviously is some hope on their end - "just in case".

 

[warrior12]

On 11/6/2016 at 7:54 PM, HisFirst said:

I hope I'm in the right section?

This question is primarily to non believers but when unbelievers say they they have prayed for a sick loved one or whatever the case may be, where and who is this prayer going to?

Thanks?

God is omniscient, omnipresent, and omnipotent.  He hear, sees and know all things.  And thus if he has all those attributes, then he hear everyone request and knows the heart.  How he chooses to respond is in his court and i don't think we really would have the answer to that.  This is where our privilege is limited with him, if that was so, we would know many future things that we don't.    

 

 

[Omegaman 3.0]

14 hours ago, OneLight said:

We were nonbelievers who prayed and asked for forgiveness, and God heard our prayer.  Otherwise, there would be no answer and salvation.  I am sure he hears their prayers, but still longs for the salvation of the one praying.

Some (myself included) would see this differently. Since unbelieivers are spiritually slaves to sin (Rom 6:17), spiritually deaf and spiritually blind (Isa 6:10), spiritually have hard hearts (Eph 4:17-19), and are spiritually dead (Rom 8:6 & Eph 2:1), there is a need to be born again, born from above (John 3:3), so that they are spiritually alive. The unregenerate person, does not seek God, does not please God.

Rom 8:5 For those who are according to the flesh set their minds on the things of the flesh, but those who are according to the Spirit, the things of the Spirit. 6 For the mind set on the flesh is death, but the mind set on the Spirit is life and peace, 7 because the mind set on the flesh is hostile toward God; for it does not subject itself to the law of God, for it is not even able to do so, 8 and those who are in the flesh cannot please God.

and 

Rom 3:10 as it is written,
            “THERE IS NONE RIGHTEOUS, NOT EVEN ONE;

      11 THERE IS NONE WHO UNDERSTANDS,
            THERE IS NONE WHO SEEKS FOR GOD;

      12 ALL HAVE TURNED ASIDE, TOGETHER THEY HAVE BECOME USELESS;
            THERE IS NONE WHO DOES GOOD,
            THERE IS NOT EVEN ONE.”

It seems to me, that what is indicated, is that unbeleivers cannot come to God UNTIL they are born again. THEN the can seek God, THEN, that can stop trying to earn their way to Heaven, THEN they receive the faith that saves them, it is a work of God, not our work, that makes us believers instead of unbelievers. No one asks for salvation, of a God they do not beleive in.

Consider an Atheist, as the extreme. He or she will not ask anything of a God, that they do not believe exists. They will only ask God, once they already have faith in Him. When God opens our eyes, unstops our ears, frees us from our slavery to sin, gives us a heart of flesh intead of stone and gives us eternal life when we are born from above, THEN we can respond to Him, and ask for forgiveness, confess, and repent.

So, my opinion is, that we did not ask for forgiveness as unbelievers, God already gave us the faith to believe, and then we exercised that faith and acknowledge Him as Lord.

To the original question of the thread however, I think Got Questions did a pretty good job. https://gotquestions.org/unbeliever-prayer.html

[OneLight]

1 hour ago, Omegaman 3.0 said:

Some (myself included) would see this differently. Since unbelieivers are spiritually slaves to sin (Rom 6:17), spiritually deaf and spiritually blind (Isa 6:10), spiritually have hard hearts (Eph 4:17-19), and are spiritually dead (Rom 8:6 & Eph 2:1), there is a need to be born again, born from above (John 3:3), so that they are spiritually alive. The unregenerate person, does not seek God, does not please God.

Rom 8:5 For those who are according to the flesh set their minds on the things of the flesh, but those who are according to the Spirit, the things of the Spirit. 6 For the mind set on the flesh is death, but the mind set on the Spirit is life and peace, 7 because the mind set on the flesh is hostile toward God; for it does not subject itself to the law of God, for it is not even able to do so, 8 and those who are in the flesh cannot please God.

and 

Rom 3:10 as it is written,
            “THERE IS NONE RIGHTEOUS, NOT EVEN ONE;

      11 THERE IS NONE WHO UNDERSTANDS,
            THERE IS NONE WHO SEEKS FOR GOD;

      12 ALL HAVE TURNED ASIDE, TOGETHER THEY HAVE BECOME USELESS;
            THERE IS NONE WHO DOES GOOD,
            THERE IS NOT EVEN ONE.”

It seems to me, that what is indicated, is that unbeleivers cannot come to God UNTIL they are born again. THEN the can seek God, THEN, that can stop trying to earn their way to Heaven, THEN they receive the faith that saves them, it is a work of God, not our work, that makes us believers instead of unbelievers. No one asks for salvation, of a God they do not beleive in.

Consider an Atheist, as the extreme. He or she will not ask anything of a God, that they do not believe exists. They will only ask God, once they already have faith in Him. When God opens our eyes, unstops our ears, frees us from our slavery to sin, gives us a heart of flesh intead of stone and gives us eternal life when we are born from above, THEN we can respond to Him, and ask for forgiveness, confess, and repent.

So, my opinion is, that we did not ask for forgiveness as unbelievers, God already gave us the faith to believe, and then we exercised that faith and acknowledge Him as Lord.

To the original question of the thread however, I think Got Questions did a pretty good job. https://gotquestions.org/unbeliever-prayer.html

Your argument begs me to ask.  Were you a sinner when you prayed for forgiveness and salvation, or were you already saved?  How is one born again without accepting Christ first and being forgiven?

[kwikphilly]

Quote

King James Bible
And he said, I will make all my goodness pass before thee, and I will proclaim the name of the LORD before thee; and will be gracious to whom I will be gracious, and will shew mercy on whom I will shew mercy.
Exodus 33:19

Quote

King James Bible
For he saith to Moses, I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion.
Romans 9:15

I do like warriors reply..

Quote

God is omniscient, omnipresent, and omnipotent.  He hear, sees and know all things.  And thus if he has all those attributes, then he hear everyone request and knows the heart.  How he chooses to respond is in his court and i don't think we really would have the answer to that.  This is where our privilege is limited with him, if that was so, we would know many future things that we don't.                          warrior

Now here is the thing,although God is Omniscient,Omnipresent & Omnipotent there is also the fact (as Mega explained) that unless one has been Sanctified & Purified,being Reconciled back to God by the Blood Sacrifice of Jesus he cannot come to the Throne of Grace & enter the Holy of Holies......so honestly I can't even answer the question......perhaps because of Gods foreknowledge He does listen to the unbeliever? Perhaps He does not? I don't really know except that God says He will show Mercy on whom He chooses to   I know there has been many occasion when an outright UNBELIEVER said to me they have  TRIED praying to a "god" they don't believe in & on my heart I felt that God does not even hear them because it was insincere & they needed Jesus but refused Him.....

Maybe Jesus hears them all,He is the Great Mediator & Intercessor for us so perhaps because He is God the Son,HE is listening & will bring who He will to the Throne?That's my best shot here-lol                               We will just leave that up to God & keep spreading the Gospel to every creature  so we can be sure their prayers w4ill be heard!                                             With love-in Christ,Kwik

[HisFirst]

3 hours ago, warrior12 said:

God is omniscient, omnipresent, and omnipotent.  He hear, sees and know all things.  And thus if he has all those attributes, then he hear everyone request and knows the heart.  How he chooses to respond is in his court and i don't think we really would have the answer to that.  This is where our privilege is limited with him, if that was so, we would know many future things that we don't.    

 

 

Thanks Warrior ?

My question was more leaning to the "Who are they praying to" -  since they have declared they don't believe in God - 

rather than "Does God hear their prayers."?

[HisFirst]

5 hours ago, Davida said:

Hi HisFirst, I do think God listens & answers when people pray with humble seeking & sincerity. At one time I was not a 'believer' but yet at times I prayed to God and I reached out.  God knows us everyone of us and will answer prayers. Some may not know God, they may not have been introduced to the full Gospel of Jesus but believe there is a God and reach out to Him through prayer. I know I did and He answered.

But there was also a time before I was saved when in a moment it was like it felt to me "as if" that there was no GOD , that the "heavens were brass" that there was no response to be had, of course it was after I became a believer that I realized my spiritual sin & rebellion had made the heavens brass. That thought was terrifying to me in that instant & I felt such loneliness, but I am sure GOD was answering me as I realized I had spiritually polluted myself by following other spiritual paths & this was all creating a barrier to my communication & relationship with GOD.

  Proverbs 8:17 "I love them that love me; and those that seek me early shall find me."

Jeremiah 29:1 "And ye shall seek me, and find me, when ye shall search for me with all your heart."

 

Thanks Davida,

When you were an unbeliever, were you still open to the possibility that God "may" exist?  I can understand prayers to God on that basis -

But from the perspective of say an athiest who prays when in a difficult situation, it begs me to ask my original question...to "whom"..?

[Omegaman 3.0]

55 minutes ago, OneLight said:

Your argument begs me to ask.  Were you a sinner when you prayed for forgiveness and salvation, or were you already saved?  How is one born again without accepting Christ first and being forgiven?

Yes, I was indeed a sinner, but I am still a sinner. The difference is that now, I have an ability to resist temptation, that was not present when I was unsaved, and being Spirit indwelr, having been givine the mind of Christ, I no longer desire to rebel against God, instead, I desire to fulfill His will for my life and be conformed to theimage of His Son. Since I was given faith, I am sanctified, am being sanctified, and will be sanctified. Same with salvation, I was saved, amd being saved, and will be saved.

Was I already saved when when I prayed? I believe I was, but I was unaware of it at the time. God did not save me because I prayer, He saved me, because for some reason of His own, not revealed to my, He chose me from the foundation of the world, long before I had any input what-so-ever.

From my, merely human observation, it seemed like by salvation was the result of my choice to submit to Him, and to ask for forgiveness. Having grown in my biblical understanding over the last almost 40 years of studying His word, I now believe that I love Him, because He first loved me. I did not seek Him until He manifested His will, that He saught me to seek Him.

Realizing this, it gives me a deeper understanding of just how deep His grace is, that while I was still His enemy He saved me, inspite of myself.

To the part of your reply that asked:

"How is one born again without accepting Christ first and being forgiven?"

My answer would be that I was forgiven, based on God's choosing, Christ's work on the cross, and His tranformation upon my being, what I beleive the born again experience is. This is why we are born from above. That enables us to understand and respond to God's call. Remember, we are referred to as adopted children of God. Adoptees to not initiate the adoption, adoptees become children, when the parent initiates the process and chooses us.

I beleive that the only thing we do to participate in our salvation, is to be the sinners who need to be saved in the first place. After that, we live our life, working out (living) the salvation that we have been gifted.

Fortunetly for us, we do not have to believe what I believe or what you believe about how we are saved in order to be saved. As I already said, it is God's work, not ours.

[Omegaman 3.0]

1 hour ago, kwikphilly said:

.....perhaps because of Gods foreknowledge He does listen to the unbeliever?

. . . perhaps there is a difference between hearing and listening. One is an awareness, the other is acting upon that awareness. Still, God does give common grace, He causes it to rain on the just and the unjust alike. Perhaps God responds to prayer of unbeleivers in that way. He loves mankind, providing for all, but His love of those He chooses, seems to have distinction. For example, I believe that God sends some people to eternal separation from Him, as is His right, and as they deserve. At the same time, He chooses some to receive His grace, and He grants them repentance, and salvation, without their deserving anything from Him. In grace, He substitutes mercy in place of justice.

Regarding the term foreknowledge, I have come to believe that this term typically is not about knowing the future, though it does mean that also, but I beleive that it is synonymous with for love. The word "know" often refers to intimate relationship. Adam knew his wife. Joseph knew Mary. Jesus says of those in the judgement:

 21“Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father who is in heaven will enter. 22“Many will say to Me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in Your name, and in Your name cast out demons, and in Your name perform many miracles?’ 

Now, those are some pretty decent credentials. I have not prophecied in the Lords name. I have not cast out demons in His name, I have not performed miracles in His name. Jesus, did not say that they did not do the things they claimed. What did He say?"

23“And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; DEPART FROM ME

I never KNEW you - - - I think that refers to Jesus having a relationship with  them. Certainly He is NOT saying, "I never knew about you"

Just a thought!

[kwikphilly]

Lot's to think about Mega,,,,really good stuff,I agree wholeheartedly that "knowing" us is meant in an Intimate Relationship ........excellent discussion but then again it is always a pleasure Brother                                       Love ya,Kwik